GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[Ralph-]

Who said anything about an SDA who condemns Christians that worship God on Sunday instead of Saturday as being a fellow believer?

Paul did!



Paul did not give the rightness of your doctrine as the excuse to ignore what he said about letting other believers worship and serve God according to their convictions.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Or maybe they are just like me and you and believe that obedience to the commands of God is the expected and obligatory sign of the presence of saving faith. Except that they just think obedience to the literal Sabbath is included in that obedience.

It's not a big deal. Really it's not. They believe in Christ too. Paul says let them think and believe what they want. This is what Paul says to those who insist on setting them straight:

Not working on Saturdays in order to be saved (not justified) is not sound doctrine. And sound doctrine is a huge deal.

Fix [your] attention on yourself and on your doctrine. Continue in them, for [by] doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you. 1 Timothy 4:16​

 

[Ralph-]

You are the one "lumping" things together, not me!

As for the other Sabbatarian groups, when one actually examines their theology one does NOT find orthodox theology!
Also, all Sabbatarian groups find their common roots in Millerism, which gave rise to Adventism...
You need to do your research!

And you need to read Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8.

Paul said to let other believers restrict their freedoms if they want to and for you to not be a stumbling block to them so you won't be guilty of sinning against Christ.

 

[graceNpeace]

Paul did!



Paul did not give the rightness of your doctrine as the excuse to ignore what he said about letting other believers worship and serve God according to their convictions.

Do you see a Mormon, or a JW as a fellow believer?
If not, then you could not see an Adventist as a fellow believer!
Moreover, Adventists do NOT see YOU as a believer but as a heathen apostate destined for hell!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Paul did!

Paul did not give the rightness of your doctrine as the excuse to ignore what he said about letting other believers worship and serve God according to their convictions.

Yet here you are trying to condemn us with the rightness of your doctrine.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

And you need to read Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8.

Paul said to let other believers restrict their freedoms if they want to and for you to not be a stumbling block to them so you won't be guilty of sinning against Christ.

Paul never said to restrict anyone's freedom to speak the truth and sound doctrine.

 

[Ralph-]

Not working on Saturdays in order to be saved (not justified) is not sound doctrine. And sound doctrine is a huge deal.

Fix [your] attention on yourself and on your doctrine. Continue in them, for [by] doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you. 1 Timothy 4:16​

Sound doctrine on how to be saved is a big deal. But Paul is not talking about that in Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8.


We all probably differ on what obediences constitute the expected work that saving faith must do. Thank you for your opinion about the matter.

 

[graceNpeace]

Paul never said to restrict anyone's freedom to speak the truth and sound doctrine.

And, in fact Paul said this about confronting false doctrine:

"6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ." Gal 1:6-10

Strong words!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Get over it. It's an opinion. And you think it's wrong. So what.

But I'm guessing your opinion about what the mark is is absolutely true and correct, right?

It's an opinion that's brings people under horrible condemnation. That is huge sin.

 

[Ralph-]

Paul never said to restrict anyone's freedom to speak the truth and sound doctrine.

Yes he did.

You do not have the right to persuade or influence a fellow believer who worships on the Sabbath to go against his conscience and not worship on the Sabbath.

Love for that person/Christ is GREATER than your perceived need to correct his doctrine against his conscience.

Read the passage.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Sound doctrine on how to be saved is a big deal. But Paul is not talking about that in Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8.


We all probably differ on what obediences constitute the expected work that saving faith must do. Thank you for your opinion about the matter.

I know. Paul is talking about not using one's liberty in Christ to act in ways that might cause a brother to stumble. Teaching sound doctrine and correcting the error of someone's doctrine is not included in that constraint.

 

[Ralph-]

It's an opinion that's brings people under horrible condemnation. That is huge sin.

Which one? Your's or his?

Get the point? It's really just a matter of perception, isn't it?



The sin is that the exercise of your freedom may cause someone to go against their conscience. You sin against Christ when you do that. Paul said so.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Yes he did.

You do not have the right to persuade or influence a fellow believer who worships on the Sabbath to go against his conscience and not worship on the Sabbath.

Love for that person/Christ is GREATER than your perceived need to correct his doctrine against his conscience.

Read the passage.

Put you money where your mouth is. Show us where he said don't teach sound doctrine to weaker vessels. Please don't throw up Romans 14 because it doesn't say that.

You're basically saying that no one except sabbatarians are permitted to teach the truth of the gospel because it might offend someone. That's a double standard and hypocrisy.

 

[graceNpeace]

Sound doctrine on how to be saved is a big deal. But Paul is not talking about that in Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8.


We all probably differ on what obediences constitute the expected work that saving faith must do. Thank you for your opinion about the matter.

You trying to invoke Romans 14 and 1 Cor 8 to try and stop the correction of major doctrinal errors just shows your complete disregard for the meaning of the text!

Me trying to confront an Adventist actively teaching others that Sunday worship will result in all of us going to hell, does NOT cover either in detail or in principle the sort of issues mentioned in those texts!

You are defending people who are actually destroying people's faith by insisting that salvation by grace through faith is NOT sufficient for salvation! you are defending people who INSIST that without Sabbath observance everything else is null and void!

You are also insisting on standing with the accursed mentioned by Paul here:
"6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ." Gal 1:6-10

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Which one? Your's or his?

Get the point? It's really just a matter of perception, isn't it?

The sin is that the exercise of your freedom may cause someone to go against their conscience. You sin against Christ when you do that. Paul said so.

No, it's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of doctrine. That's something that you don't understand because you reject sound doctrine to embrace the doctrine that the only doctrine is the fruit of the spirit.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You trying to invoke Romans 14 and 1 Cor 8 to try and stop the correction of major doctrinal errors just shows your complete disregard for the meaning of the text!

He rejects all doctrine except the fruit of the spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), and then interprets the fruit of the spirit the way he wants.

 

[PS]

some folks just cannot understand that Christianity is NOT a version of Judaism . it is a totally different thing.

Yes, and moving Old Testament law into this dispensation is an insult to God who purposely gave us a New Covenant to replace the Old one.

 

[PS]

That's why they think one must keep the literal Sabbath. Just like we think that the believer must keep the law 'do not steal', or 'love your neighbor as yourself' because it is the evidence of the faith that saves apart from works.

That is their conviction. That is what we are to allow them to believe without our interference. That is what Paul said to do.

Keeping a Saturday Sabbath has nothing to do with our saving faith in Jesus.

 

[mailmandan]

Paul did!



Paul did not give the rightness of your doctrine as the excuse to ignore what he said about letting other believers worship and serve God according to their convictions.

Paul did not condemn Christians for worshiping God on Sunday or for failing to keep the Saturday Sabbath day under the Mosaic law as misguided SDA’s do.

 

[PS]

Or maybe they are just like me and you and believe that obedience to the commands of God is the expected and obligatory sign of the presence of saving faith. Except that they just think obedience to the literal Sabbath is included in that obedience.

It's not a big deal. Really it's not. They believe in Christ too. Paul says let them think and believe what they want. This is what Paul says to those who insist on setting them straight:



6He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord

3The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.


They do it for the Lord.

Don't treat them with contempt.

God has accepted them.

Who are you to judge the servant of another?

They are accountable to God, not us, and God is able to make them stand.

The Old Covenant is not the New Covenant. They are different and we need to honour God for freeing us from the law that condemns.