The Rapture

[Roadkill]

You love to rewrite what the Bible plainly states. Jesus comes and the rapture happens at the same time. That is what the verses I quoted state. It starts with the second coming of Christ. Verse 27 talks about the Rapture. So go back to the drawing board and try again.

Again your interpretation. Show scripture to the Contrary please? These are two separate events. The Rapture of the Church Age, The Return of Jesus to Rule on this Earth for 1000 years. There is a final resurrection too at the end of it all. Revelation clearly states of the latter two but the Rapture is a Church Age Mystery and does not concern Israel therefore not mentioned in Revelation which concerns that last 7 years of Israel as a Nation.

 

[Endoscopy]

Incorrect assumption on your part. In 516 king Herod wanted to build a larger Temple so he had to make the Mount larger in square feet to accomplish this. He built a retaining wall around the Mount and back filled it with dirt to form the foundation for his Second Temple. This is part of this retaining wall that held the dirt for the foundation of the Temple. The Temple indeed was destroyed down to the foundation stones and most of the retaining wall also. But because the Romans had incorporated this section of the retaining wall into their fort it was left there.

And you have no Scriptural reference to contradict this. All you are going by is what Josephus wrote. Not divinely inspired and therefor a flawed representation of History.

Try this on for size since you require scripture reference.

Matthew 24 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
24 Jesus departed from the temple area and was going on His way when His disciples came up to Him to call His attention to the buildings of the temple and point them out to Him.
2 But He answered them, Do you see all these? Truly I tell you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.

Contradict Jesus if you can.

 

[Endoscopy]

Again your interpretation. Show scripture to the Contrary please? These are two separate events. The Rapture of the Church Age, The Return of Jesus to Rule on this Earth for 1000 years. There is a final resurrection too at the end of it all. Revelation clearly states of the latter two but the Rapture is a Church Age Mystery and does not concern Israel therefore not mentioned in Revelation which concerns that last 7 years of Israel as a Nation.

You are claiming that the scripture I posted is in error. Jesus returns and the saints are gathered by angels at the same time. Tell me again after you reread that scripture how this is 2 seperate events. Both are happening simultaneously. You seem to have a concept that contradicts the Bible.

 

[Roadkill]

Scripture states Jesus saying no one knows the date and time but the Father. Therefore any assertion of knowledge of this is absolutely not true.

Mark 13 AMPC

24 But in those days, after [the affliction and oppression and distress of] that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;
25 And the stars will be falling from the sky, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.
26 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great (kingly) power and glory (majesty and splendor).
27 And then He will send out the angels and will gather together His elect (those He has [m]picked out for Himself) from the four winds, from the farthest bounds of the earth to the farthest bounds of heaven.
28 Now learn a lesson from the fig tree: as soon as its branch becomes tender and it puts forth its leaves, you recognize and know that summer is near.
29 So also, when you see these things happening, you may recognize and know that He is near, at [the very] door.
30 Surely I say to you, this generation ([n]the whole multitude of people living at that one time) positively will not perish or pass away before all these things take place.
31 Heaven and earth will perish and pass away, but My words will not perish or pass away.
32 But of that day or that hour not a [single] person knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

You've split this chapter in Half to prove your point and therefor have taken it out of context.
On the first part of this chapter Jesus is predicting the destruction of the Temple mount, verses 1-23.
The Second part which you quoted is about his Second Coming to Earth, verses 24-32.
Pay attention to Mark 13 verse 27. Is this the rapture of the Church Age? I think not. These people are gathered from the farthest bounds of the earth and the farthest bounds of heaven. The Rapture begins at earth and there for these people are already in heaven and have to come back.
Does this sound like the Rapture of the Church Age out of this world? No it does not.

 

[Roadkill]

Try this on for size since you require scripture reference.

Matthew 24 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
24 Jesus departed from the temple area and was going on His way when His disciples came up to Him to call His attention to the buildings of the temple and point them out to Him.
2 But He answered them, Do you see all these? Truly I tell you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.

Contradict Jesus if you can.

By the way, this is one of your examples that the Temple Mount was in Jerusalem. LOL

 

[Roadkill]

Try this on for size since you require scripture reference.

Matthew 24 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
24 Jesus departed from the temple area and was going on His way when His disciples came up to Him to call His attention to the buildings of the temple and point them out to Him.
2 But He answered them, Do you see all these? Truly I tell you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.

Contradict Jesus if you can.

Not contradicting Jesus, The TEMPLE MOUNT itself was destroyed to the foundation stones. They were ripped out. The retaining wall held dirt for the foundation. The Building itself was ripped up to the point of the earth. The retaining wall was not a part of the Temple Mount building proper but held the dirt work for it.

 

[Roadkill]

Try this on for size since you require scripture reference.

Matthew 24 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
24 Jesus departed from the temple area and was going on His way when His disciples came up to Him to call His attention to the buildings of the temple and point them out to Him.
2 But He answered them, Do you see all these? Truly I tell you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.

Contradict Jesus if you can.

And I was referring to scriptural reference to the Temple Destruction of 70 AD. Not the scriptural reference to Jesus' Prediction of the Destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. A account of the event in 70 AD in the New Testament if you will?

So please do tell?

 

[Roadkill]

Addendum
The temple was in the City of David. That starts at the south part of the mount at the west end and went south from there.

Bethlehem is referred to as THE CITY OF DAVID in Luke 2:11.
Your saying this tiny town outside of Jerusalem had the Temple in it? That's absurd! The Temple Mount was being run like a business by the Priests of that time with the selling and buying of sacrificial animals and such. Everyone went to it that was a Jew at the time. It was a major business and a major pilgrimage for many People. Just having the temple in a town would balloon the size of it from the hotels and restaurants for travelers coming to the Temple. Thousands of people from all over the world visited it every year. G0 check your Geography and yes you are contradicting scripture here.

 

[Roadkill]

You love to rewrite what the Bible plainly states. Jesus comes and the rapture happens at the same time. That is what the verses I quoted state. It starts with the second coming of Christ. Verse 27 talks about the Rapture. So go back to the drawing board and try again.

It plainly states? Try finding the word Rapture in the Bible. It is an event that we have come up with a word for. A Church Age Secret and Event.

 

[Endoscopy]

Bethlehem is referred to as THE CITY OF DAVID in Luke 2:11.
Your saying this tiny town outside of Jerusalem had the Temple in it? That's absurd! The Temple Mount was being run like a business by the Priests of that time with the selling and buying of sacrificial animals and such. Everyone went to it that was a Jew at the time. It was a major business and a major pilgrimage for many People. Just having the temple in a town would balloon the size of it from the hotels and restaurants for travelers coming to the Temple. Thousands of people from all over the world visited it every year. G0 check your Geography and yes you are contradicting scripture here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_David

Oops it is Jerusalem.

It is called so because he was able to attack it by going in their water supply to open the gates to the city in order to capture it and rename it Jerusalem.

 

[Endoscopy]

You've split this chapter in Half to prove your point and therefor have taken it out of context.
On the first part of this chapter Jesus is predicting the destruction of the Temple mount, verses 1-23.
The Second part which you quoted is about his Second Coming to Earth, verses 24-32.
Pay attention to Mark 13 verse 27. Is this the rapture of the Church Age? I think not. These people are gathered from the farthest bounds of the earth and the farthest bounds of heaven. The Rapture begins at earth and there for these people are already in heaven and have to come back.
Does this sound like the Rapture of the Church Age out of this world? No it does not.

Verse 26 is Jesus coming and verse 27 is the angels gathering the elect simultaneously. Explain how the two connected verses are happening at different times?!?!

 

[Endoscopy]

It plainly states? Try finding the word Rapture in the Bible. It is an event that we have come up with a word for. A Church Age Secret and Event.

We have several theological words that are not in the Bible Dippidy Doo. They are used to identify a concept. The angels gathering the saints from everywhere is the rapture. Try to let your mind wrap around what the Bible states without trying to make it different. If you have a scripture that shows something different then post it. I'm going with the posted scripture that you can't seem to accept. Jesus coming with Angels gathering the saints. Same time!!! Prove otherwise!!

 

[tanakh]

When Joshua was by Jericho he lifted up his eyes and looked and behold a man stood before him with a drawn sword in his hand and Joshua went to him and said to him Are you for us or for our adversaries? And he said no but as commander of the army of the Lord I have now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped and said to him What does my Lord bid his servant? And the commander of the Lords army said to Joshua Put off your shoes from your feet for the place where you stand is holy. And Joshua did so.

Joshua 5.13-14 RSV

On the seventh day they rose early at dawn of day, and marched around the city in the same manner seven times it was only on that day that they marched around the city seven times. And at the seventh time when the priests had blown the trumpets Joshua said to the people Shout for the Lord has given you the city and the city and all that is within it shall be devoted to the Lord for destruction, only Rahab the harlot and all that remain with her in her house shall live because she hid the messengers that were sent.

Joshua 6 .16-17 RSV

For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command and the with the Archangels call and with the sound of a trumpet from and the dead in Christ shall rise first and we who are alive shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we shall ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4.16

When People say peace and security then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child and there will be no escape

1 Thessalonians 5.5

Then the seventh Angel blew his trumpet and there were loud voices in heaven saying The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of the Lord and of his Christ and he shall reign forever and ever. And the twenty four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God saying We give thanks to to thee Lord God Almighty who art and who wast that thou hast taken thy great power and begun to reign. The nations raged but thy wrath came and the time for the dead to be judged for rewarding thy prophets and saints and those who fear thy name both small and great and for destroying the destroyers of the earth

Revelation 11.19 RSV


By comparing these passages I believe that the Rapture and the second coming occurs at the same time at the seventh trumpet blown by the Angel in Rev 11. We are told that then is the time for the Prophets and Saints to be judged and rewarded and for the destruction of those who destroy the earth. Jericho was a sign and symbol of the second coming. And the captain of the Lords host was Christ because the only time the term Holy ground is used is in the presence of God

 

[Endoscopy]

Not contradicting Jesus, The TEMPLE MOUNT itself was destroyed to the foundation stones. They were ripped out. The retaining wall held dirt for the foundation. The Building itself was ripped up to the point of the earth. The retaining wall was not a part of the Temple Mount building proper but held the dirt work for it.

Try again.

1. The temple was in the City of David. Google that for a map of it. Is starts at the south west corner of the temple mount.
2. Jesus prophecied that the temple complex would have no stone standing on another.
3. Josephus recorded watching the Romans destroy the temple complex saying if he hadn't watched it he wouldn't know where it stood.

These are three facts that can easily be verified with Google. Prove they are in error.

With the above facts the wailing wall was never ever part of the temple complex.
Was Jesus a liar?
Did Josephus lie in his history?

 

[Endoscopy]

You've split this chapter in Half to prove your point and therefor have taken it out of context.
On the first part of this chapter Jesus is predicting the destruction of the Temple mount, verses 1-23.
The Second part which you quoted is about his Second Coming to Earth, verses 24-32.
Pay attention to Mark 13 verse 27. Is this the rapture of the Church Age? I think not. These people are gathered from the farthest bounds of the earth and the farthest bounds of heaven. The Rapture begins at earth and there for these people are already in heaven and have to come back.
Does this sound like the Rapture of the Church Age out of this world? No it does not.

Here is another prophecy about the second coming.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud cry of summons, with the shout of an archangel, and with the blast of the trumpet of God. And those who have departed this life in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we, the living ones who remain [on the earth], shall simultaneously be caught up along with [the resurrected dead] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so always (through the eternity of the eternities) we shall be with the Lord!

Oops you are wrong according to 2 seperate prophecies about the second coming and the rapture happening simultaneously as stated in this verse. Therefore go peddle your wrong headed idiocy elsewhere.

 

[Roadkill]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_David

Oops it is Jerusalem.

It is called so because he was able to attack it by going in their water supply to open the gates to the city in order to capture it and rename it Jerusalem.

Matthew 2:1-6
According to any Reputative Archaeological Study Bible Bethlehem is located 5 MILES south of Jerusalem.
The Mormons claim Jesus was born in Jerusalem but this verse clearly disputes that claim. Why then does this verse differentiate between the two cities if they were one and the same? I couldn't stomach to agree with a Mormon, which sounds like you are agreeing with them, on this.

Now back to what I wrote about the Rapture of the Church before the last 3 and 1/2 years of Israel's last 7 years as a Nation before Jesus' return.

Consider these chapters and read them in their entirety 1st Thessalonians chapter 1 and chapter 5. Pay attention to chapter 1 verse 10 and chapter 5 verse 9 but don't take them out of context.

Now think on this. The Church at it's inception had been persecuted and through many tribulations. It's very founders, all but one, were all put to the point of death and did not recant. The one that did survive was tortured and finally exiled to the Island of Patmos which was a leper colony. We have been persecuted by whom? MAN. You name the Nationality and we have been persecuted by them at one point or another in the last 2000 years. Why? For our witness of the Truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Were we persecuted by God or did he pour his wrath out on the Church for the last 2000 years? Obviously not. He has disciplined us all at one time or another but he has NEVER Persecuted us for believing on Jesus Christ.

Now we have borne the Wrath of Man for about the Last 2000 years for our witness of Jesus.

The Wrath of God comes in 2 forms.

One form is obviously the Eternal Damnation of Hell for those who reject Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

The other form is the Wrath he pours out on the Earth (MANKIND as a Whole and all the Life here also) described in Revelation.

Now do you believe in the Rapture or Not? What is the Rapture? It the catching up of the Church. Why is the Church caught up? Because god promised not to put us through His Wrath being poured out on the Earth during the 3 and 1/2 years before Jesus sets foot on the Mount of Olives.

What I wrote about is this event, THE RAPTURE. Not the Final Resurrection of everyone and certainly not about the Second Coming of Jesus.

The Rapture and the Rapture event only did I describe for you all as told to me.
Now why would you believe that the Church would be Caught up (If you believe in the Rapture of the Church Age at all) and not all of the Innocent persons also? Does it make sense that God would take us up and leave Innocent children here? No it does not. Does it make sense that God would let innocent children be born in this Hellish last 3 and 1/2 years as described in Revelation as he pours HIS PERSONAL WRATH out on Earth? No it does not. Does Revelation at ANY time speak of Children being here? No it does not.

Revelation clearly states that there will be Christians going through this as well as Messianic Jews but why are they going through this and not the Church?

Because they did not BELIEVE on Jesus Christ before this RAPTURE date they missed the Bus!

But what makes them Believe After the Rapture? That's right, the RAPTURE EVENT itself is the FINAL witness of the Church to Mankind. Because of this they Believe. They see it and can not explain it away. Something that happens in a twinkling of an eye is hard to witness isn't it? They would just claim an Alien Abduction Scenario is all and even then some still do.

Wrap your minds around it and think on it.

I can lead you to Reason but I can't make you THINK. You have to do that on your own. When you arrive there, though not stated in the Bible I totally agree, then what I wrote about the RAPTURE EVENT makes perfect sense and does not CONTRADICT the Bible at all. It is a hidden Mystery for the CHURCH AGE that has been opened up to us at this point and time.

I can not live to see it from this side of Life. I am anonymous and have to remain so therefor I have nothing to gain.

I put myself out for Ridicule and Slander but God is my Judge.

Though I am not a Prophet, I can not make this claim even when this comes to pass, this is a form of Prophecy in that I was told this so remember 1 Thessalonians 5:20 please.

The sign you have been given in May, look for it and consider.

 

[Roadkill]

Here is another prophecy about the second coming.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud cry of summons, with the shout of an archangel, and with the blast of the trumpet of God. And those who have departed this life in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we, the living ones who remain [on the earth], shall simultaneously be caught up along with [the resurrected dead] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so always (through the eternity of the eternities) we shall be with the Lord!

Oops you are wrong according to 2 seperate prophecies about the second coming and the rapture happening simultaneously as stated in this verse. Therefore go peddle your wrong headed idiocy elsewhere.

What Bible are you getting this crap from? KJV only please. Not perfect but very close translation.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
Verse 16 Does not say Jesus sets foot on the MT of Olives does it? No does not at all. Therefor this is a different event than the 2nd Coming of Jesus to set up his Kingdom here on Earth for 1000 years and all that is associated with that event. SO we are talking about the RAPTURE EVENT here. Did I ever write that Jesus doesn't kick this off? No I did not.

How long a period of time between Verse 16 and 17? Doesn't say does it?

Verse 17 You sir inserted the word Simultaneously. NOT CORRECT! CONTRADICTION of Scripture!
1st Thessalonian chapter 4 verse 17 KJV reads as follows:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Let's examine this verse if you will?

"Then we which are alive and remain" out of context I know and I hate to do this but for teaching purposes only I have to. This means the dead in Christ have already left doesn't it? What's the span of time between this and when the Dead in Christ arose first? Doesn't say does it?

"shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:" Doesn't say how long Jesus and the Dead in Christ hang around in the air waiting for the Living in Christ to join them now does it?

"and so shall we be ever with the Lord." I Totally AGREE HERE.

Now what did I CONTRADICT here in these 2 verses? That's right, NOTHING!

 

[Roadkill]

Verse 26 is Jesus coming and verse 27 is the angels gathering the elect simultaneously. Explain how the two connected verses are happening at different times?!?!

Once again,
LOOK CLOSELY at Mark 13:verse 27
He is also gathering those that are in HEAVEN already when this event happens. They are there already because they are the ones that went at the RAPTURE before this event.

 

[Roadkill]

Try again.

1. The temple was in the City of David. Google that for a map of it. Is starts at the south west corner of the temple mount.
2. Jesus prophecied that the temple complex would have no stone standing on another.
3. Josephus recorded watching the Romans destroy the temple complex saying if he hadn't watched it he wouldn't know where it stood.

These are three facts that can easily be verified with Google. Prove they are in error.

With the above facts the wailing wall was never ever part of the temple complex.
Was Jesus a liar?
Did Josephus lie in his history?

Agree with the fact that the wall was never a part of the TEMPLE MOUNT PROPER BUILDING. It was a dirt retaining wall for the TEMPLE to hold dirt for the TEMPLE MOUNT. Not an actual part of the building. Have you ever looked at a retaining wall? Would you say it was a part of the actual building? I wouldn't.

Jesus can not Lie. The Temple Building was torn down to the dirt. He did not say the dirt would be removed also did he? The Wailing Wall is part of a retaining wall for the DIRT. Not a part of the Building Proper.

Josephus probably described the Building proper being destroyed down to the dirt. How many buildings were in this retaining wall I have no Idea. Was it just the Temple Mount? I don't know. Do you? Non the Less to remove all of the dirt down to the original Mountain to would have been an enormous task after the enormous task of Tearing down the Temple itself and would have been pointless. Has someone ever done a geological core test to see if the dirt changes from the emplaced dirt to the original mountain top? That would settle this once and for all. Care to fund this project? LOL

 

[Roadkill]

We have several theological words that are not in the Bible Dippidy Doo. They are used to identify a concept. The angels gathering the saints from everywhere is the rapture. Try to let your mind wrap around what the Bible states without trying to make it different. If you have a scripture that shows something different then post it. I'm going with the posted scripture that you can't seem to accept. Jesus coming with Angels gathering the saints. Same time!!! Prove otherwise!!

I'm proving away and using the King James Version. Will not recognize any other version as you all should do the same. A small change in a verse can alter it's meaning drastically as I have demonstrated earlier. I know it's not perfect but it's the best we have.