Women should not be allowed to preach in church

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Mar 19, 2018
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The Bible warns against "false teachers" 2 Peter 2:1

Anyone teaching something contrary to 1 Timothy 2:12 is a false teacher since Paul states in 1 Timothy 2:7 he is speaking the "truth" and doesn't lie; therefore it would be foolish to listen to such a teacher. (Galatians 3:1)
This is your entire argument, written before Angela ever gave her argument.

I stand by this statement. It was not made to Angela but what in the statement do you believe to be untrue?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Is it so strange today is the 26th of March? It has to happen once a year.
It is purple day for me 365 days of the year, except for leap year :)

Then I get one extra day to wear purple :D
 

Angela53510

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Jan 24, 2011
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Oh good, we are having fun! So, I am going to bring this back to on topic!

10 Reasons Why Men Should not be allowed to preach, teach or be ordained!

10. A man’s place is in the army.

9. The pastoral duties of men who have children might distract them from the responsibility of being a parent.

8. The physique of men indicates that they are more suited to such tasks as chopping down trees and wrestling mountain lions. It would be “unnatural” for them to do ministerial tasks.

7. Man was created before woman, obviously as a prototype. Thus, they represent an experiment rather than the crowning achievement of creation.

6. Men are too emotional to be priests or pastors. Their conduct at football and basketball games demonstrates this.

5. Some men are handsome, and this will distract women worshipers.

4. Pastors need to nurture their congregations. But this is not a traditional male role. Throughout history, women have been recognized as not only more skilled than men at nurturing, but also more fervently attracted to it. This makes them the obvious choice for ordination.

3. Men are prone to violence. No really masculine man wants to settle disputes except by fighting about them. Thus they would be poor role models as well as dangerously unstable in positions of leadership.

2. The New Testament tells us that Jesus was betrayed by a man. His lack of faith and ensuing punishment remind us of the subordinated position that all men should take.

1. Men can still be involved in church activities, even without being ordained. They can sweep sidewalks, repair the church roof, and perhaps even lead the song service on Father’s Day. By confining themselves to such traditional male roles, they can still be vitally important in the life of the church.
 

Angela53510

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Jan 24, 2011
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Originally Posted by Icetech

I do regret the post that I made and it was in haste. Angela had previously posted a huge amount of information in a single post and followed it up with one equally as large when the argument she makes is already on the internet and a link to the appropriate site would have been sufficient.
I must have missed this.

I made it quite clear that I wrote all the stuff with the Greek. That's because I am an advanced student of Greek. I used Bauer (BDAG 3rd Edition), The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament, by Rogers Jr and Rogers III, and quite a few commentaries, both for and against women being allowed to preach and teach, (I can list all the books), and numerous translations of the Bible. The only internet source I used for my posts, was Biblegateway.com, to check how different versions translated the same words.

If I could find your post, I would report it.

You have no right to say I copied and pasted it, except from myself. It is quite easy to put parts of what I wrote into a google search, to see if I stole it elsewhere. Of course, I did not! Ok, sometimes I copy and paste and put my own material back. Like in this example below!

So, I did a google search of this paragraph in this thread:

The word is authentein, (αύθεμτείν) in Greek. According to every scholarly source I have read, authentein means anything from "to act on one's own authority, to exercise authority, to murder, to domineer, to be an autocrat." So ALL of these terms suggest that a woman is not to be without God's anointing, nor dominate or be an autocrat over a man.


#366

Here is what I came up with in a google search from July 29, 2013

Angela53510Re: What Do I Do With This Verse?
I have said this so many times I am getting tired of it. People take an English translation and read into the text what is NOT there in the original language. They forget the context and rip verses out of their setting and who the book was written to!

Paul wrote the epistles to the various churches he founded and had pastored. In Corinthians, example, he writes to the church in Corinth. He addresses addresses various issues, including the sins of certain men.

"It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife." 1 Cor. 5:1.

In 1 Timothy he also addresses specific sins to two men.

"Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme." 1 Tim. 1:20

"Alexander the metalworker did me a great deal of harm. The Lord will repay him for what he has done." 1 Tim. 4:14

In fact, I have heard it said that there was a woman in Ephesus who was causing great harm in the church, but Paul did not name her, because he hoped to have her restored to the fellowship. What is extremely important about this verse, is that it does not apply to ALL women!! It is about A woman who is causing problems in the church.

"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet." 1Tim 2:11-12

It does not say SOME women or ALL women, but is addressed to A (singular) woman who was causing problems, probably a former priestess of Artemis. The pronoun SHE in the latter part of the verse is also singular because that is the tense of the verb. If Paul was wanting to address all women, for all time, he would have used the plural from of the verb and made it a continuing tense.

The first verb in Greek which then applies to following verses in this passage is LEARN. This is μανθανέτω, or manthaneto*. Because the third person pronoun is contained within the verb in Greek, I will examine this verb and the parsing is as follows:

PRESENT - That means it has to happen, NOW, - not the future or the past
IMPERATIVE - a woman is commanded to do this
ACTIVE - Means that the person must do it- it is not done to her
3 PERSON - he, she, it (in the singular) they (plural)
SINGULAR - ONE person only!!

Therefore the GREEK is very clear in saying that it is something that this woman is commanded to do NOW!! It is not forever, it is not continuing (Imperfect), it is not past or future. We do not have this verb tense in English, and properly it should be translated "LET HER".

ONE WOMAN, ONE PERSON - time is right now - in Ephesus in the 1st century AD.

I do hope some of you will take the time to read this. As I have said in so many places - (and NOT just about women), without a knowledge of Greek and Hebrew, you are depending on the personal bias of the translator. Although in this case, it is a pretty good translation. Single, present, and oh yes. Paul is personally commanding it to this woman, which also means it is a personal command, addressed to a single person, in a specific church -Ephesus! When we read the personal letters of Paul, which 1 & 2 Timothy both are, the hermeneutics is that he is talking directly to Timothy, the young pastor, about how to deal with specific situations - men who are bad and a woman who needs to be corrected!

As far as the word "authority" which has been a constant debate in this forum, and used by men to suppress women, mock them and put them down, we need to look in depth at the word!

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet." 1 Tim. 2:12 ESV

The word AUTHORITY here is a hapax legomena. That means it appears only ONCE in the whole Bible. It is not the usual word in the New Testament for authority, which is exousia.

Instead, we have a word which cannot be translated in terms of the way it is in other Bible verses, but translators have to turn to other contemporaneous sources to find out what the word means.

The word is authentein, (αύθεμτείν) in Greek. According to Rogers Jr and Rogers III, it means anything from "to act on one's own authority, to exercise authority, to murder, to domineer, to be an autocrat."* So ALL of these terms suggest that a woman is not to be without God's authority, nor dominate or be an autocrat over a man.

Contextually, this is very important, because Timothy was the pastor in Ephesus, which was the home of the goddess Artemis or Diana. The temple of Artemis was one of the seven wonders of the ancient world, and Paul had already had run-ins with their silversmiths, who resented that Paul was pulling people away from worship of Artemis and not needing their idols. (See Acts 19)

Now the big thing about these worshipers of Artemis, was that the temple was run by wild priestesses. They wore their hair long and unruly and they did some nasty things to men in the name of their idol.

So imagine if some of them get saved, or pretend to be saved, and came into a church, and start domineering and doing all kinds of cultic things. Well, I agree these women should not be in control. They should not be exercising authority over anyone. They need to unlearn a LOT of things!

So Paul was right to tell Timothy in a private letter, to kindly keep these women under control in Ephesus. Does this one verse apply to ALL women for ALL time? Well, I think it is best that neither men nor women dominate. So in that sense, it is universal. But because Paul picked this word - the ONLY time he used it in all his letters, he was not talking about any kind of authority given by God. That would be exousia.

As far as the word translated "silent" in the KJV and other versions, ESV has it right, according to Danker **, the word ἡσυχίᾳ, should be translated as "quiet, well-ordered." That does not mean being absolutely silent. It means speaking at the right time.

Finally, it should be remembered that in that culture, women were not educated, and were little more than slaves or property. When they became Christians, they became equal with men (Gal 3:28) and they were joint heirs with Christ. BUT, they were not educated, and learning was essential. Most of the women could not read or write, and thus it was important for them to be instructed by men who were educated. Thank God, we are now educated, and we are able to understand, study and read the Bible for ourselves.

So, yes, you can teach. Now the men may not listen, because they do not understand the context or the Greek. They may threaten us, call us names, but God will deal with them in his time, for their discouragement and for trying to hold back the calling of God.

*The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament, Cleon Rogers Jr, and Cleon Rogers III, Zondervan Publishing House, 1998.

**A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature: Frederick William Danker based on Walter Dauer's German version. The University of Chicago Press, 2000.​


http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/69869-what-do-i-do-verse-2-print.html?pp=40

That's the ONLY place where the words in my paragraph in this thread are also found in google.


And this demonstrates again, why certain arrogant and uneducated men, should never be allowed to preach or teach. Because they do not understand that women are just as capable at looking closely at Scripture as they are, plus, I have the personal advantage of a superior education, research and training than you do.

Schmuck!
 
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