Baptism: is it required to be baptized in water?

[preston39]

I have scripture to support my arguments. All you have is sarcasm.

m...,

Scriptures contain no PC...which you are apparently expecting. Stay with The Bible.

 

[Donmech]

Donmech....

It would be much easier for you to list all scriptures with the word baptism or baptize which you believe is not referring to water immersion baptism.

Here are just a few verses that mention baptism that does not refer to water immersion baptism:
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
Acts 1:5
for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
Matthew 3:11
"As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Acts 11:16
"And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
Luke 3:16
John answered and said to them all, "As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Galatians 3:27
For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Mark 1:8
"I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."
John 1:33
"I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, 'He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.'
Romans 6:3-7
Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise
Colossians 2:11-13
and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
In future post please allow the individual being asked a question to respond. Thank you

 

[Magenta]

I agree with some of what you said in this paragraph... you are saying much the same thing I am saying, except you emphasize the "unimportance" of baptism, where I see it as a "given"... something that is to be taught and practiced at EVERY conversion.

The physical act of baptism does not "save" us, the way I understand scripture. We are saved by God's grace because of Jesus' sacrifice for us, and our acceptance of him as our Lord. We are to be baptized as our part of accepting that free gift... for several reasons/purposes. Jesus taught that. The apostles practiced that. So did every other believer down to the 18th century or so. That is the way it was done.

If a new believer was to listen to what you are saying, they would come to the conclusion that all I have to do is believe, then continue on my way.... "saved".... baptism is not necessary, so why bother?

I believe you are teaching it wrong. Baptism is taught and shown to be an essential part of a non believer becoming a believer.

If a person is taught incorrectly, and accepts Jesus as their savior and is not baptized, I don't think that will negate their salvation at all. But, they should be taught correctly as soon as possible, and they should be baptized, as Jesus commanded. They should NOT be taught that "oh, well, it really isn't necessary... don't worry about it." That is doing them a dis-service, and is NOT teaching what Jesus did.

I do not know who you are quoting and saying they are teaching wrong, because you have a habit of removing pertinent (and important) information, when you edit Could you please quote without removing the link back to the original post? I would appreciate it very much, and others may, also Thank you, Mr. Hornetguy

 

[DJ2]

Here are just a few verses that mention baptism that does not refer to water immersion baptism:
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
Acts 1:5
for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
Matthew 3:11
"As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Acts 11:16
"And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
Luke 3:16
John answered and said to them all, "As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Galatians 3:27
For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Mark 1:8
"I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."
John 1:33
"I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, 'He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.'
Romans 6:3-7
Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise
Colossians 2:11-13
and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
In future post please allow the individual being asked a question to respond. Thank you

See, that was a lot faster.

Of your 11 verses 7 of them are of the same event, John the Baptist's testimony. All 7 of them speak clearly of water as well as the future promise of the gift of the Holy Spirit which matches Peter's command of Acts 2:38.

be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, so that your sins will be forgiven; and you will receive God's gift, the Holy Spirit.

The other two 1st Cor,.12:13 and Romans 6:3-7 are simply expressions of our receiving the Holy Spirit at baptism.

On the last two, you seem desperate to bulk up your argument since neither one even mentions baptism.

In future post please allow the individual being asked a question to respond. Thank you

Not sure what to make of this? How am I not allowing an individual to respond?

 

[hornetguy]

I do not know who you are quoting and saying they are teaching wrong, because you have a habit of removing pertinent (and important) information, when you edit Could you please quote without removing the link back to the original post? I would appreciate it very much, and others may, also Thank you, Mr. Hornetguy

Post #852 has the "reply with quote" that I was responding to. Does it not show up on your screen?

I was responding to MMDan.... post #850. It was a long post, and I was only responding to the one paragraph...

You are probably using the "Good News" version of CC.... leaving stuff out, and all...

 

[Magenta]

Post #852 has the "reply with quote" that I was responding to. Does it not show up on your screen?

I was responding to MMDan.... post #850. It was a long post, and I was only responding to the one paragraph...

You are probably using the "Good News" version of CC.... leaving stuff out, and all...

When you edit a post, you sometimes delete the part with the name and link back to the original post. You are not the only one to do this It has nothing to do with anything I am doing I would just like to be able to know whom you are addressing, and be able to track back to the beginning of any given conversation, which is what the links are for

 

[hornetguy]

When you edit a post, you sometimes delete the part with the name and link back to the original post. You are not the only one to do this It has nothing to do with anything I am doing I would just like to be able to know whom you are addressing, and be able to track back to the beginning of any given conversation, which is what the links are for

Okie-dokie!

 

[Magenta]

Okie-dokie!

Thank you very much! Would you like some cake?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Thank you very much! Would you like some cake?

Just bread and circuses should be fine.

 

[DJ2]

In John 3:5, Jesus said, "born of water and the Spirit" He did not say born of baptism and the Spirit. To automatically read baptism into this verse simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted. Scripture interprets itself. Notice in John 7:38-39, "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of LIVING WATER. But this He spoke concerning the SPIRIT.

*Did you see that? *The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.

*Jesus connects this living water here with everlasting life. *Living water is not water baptism. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - ..drink into one Spirit. Notice how I properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion. Water baptism is the picture or symbol of the new birth, but not the means of securing it.

In John 3:5, Jesus said, "born of water and the Spirit". He did not say born of rivers of living waters and the Spirit. To automatically read rivers of living waters into this verse simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted. Scripture interprets itself. Notice in Acts 2:38, "Peter replied, Repent and be baptized so that your sins will be forgiven and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit". As the scriptures say water and Spirit.

*Did you see that?* The Holy Spirit is gifted at the act of water baptism. If "water" is arbitrarily denied as baptism, then we can insert any mention of water no matter how rarely mentioned in the bible, such as "rivers of living waters". If this sounds ridiculous, you are correct it is ridiculous.

In Mark 16:16. Jesus said, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved but whoever does not believe will be damned. In 1st Peter 3:21 it states, "Baptism, which is like that water now saves you." Jesus connects water with the Holy Spirit the same as did Peter. In Acts 22;16 Ananias commanded, "What are you waiting for, get up, be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Ananias is not speaking of "rivers of living waters" but the waters of baptism. Notice how I harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion. Water baptism is not the source of our salvation but the point of our salvation.

 

[preston39]

In John 3:5, Jesus said, "born of water and the Spirit". He did not say born of rivers of living waters and the Spirit. To automatically read rivers of living waters into this verse simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted. Scripture interprets itself. Notice in Acts 2:38, "Peter replied, Repent and be baptized so that your sins will be forgiven and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit". As the scriptures say water and Spirit.

*Did you see that?* The Holy Spirit is gifted at the act of water baptism. If "water" is arbitrarily denied as baptism, then we can insert any mention of water no matter how rarely mentioned in the bible, such as "rivers of living waters". If this sounds ridiculous, you are correct it is ridiculous.

In Mark 16:16. Jesus said, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved but whoever does not believe will be damned. In 1st Peter 3:21 it states, "Baptism, which is like that water now saves you." Jesus connects water with the Holy Spirit the same as did Peter. In Acts 22;16 Ananias commanded, "What are you waiting for, get up, be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Ananias is not speaking of "rivers of living waters" but the waters of baptism. Notice how I harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion. Water baptism is not the source of our salvation but the point of our salvation.

Dj...,

Excellent summary...and totally correct with scriptures.

 

[hornetguy]

Thank you very much! Would you like some cake?

Looks like a grape cheesecake..... yummy....

 

[garee]

I think much is lost because we do not look to the foundation and purpose of water baptism .It foundation has its roots in the Old Testament ceremonial law. The way it is used today seems to disregard the original intent. In doing so it loses the ongoing purpose of that ceremonial law. You could say not all ceremonial laws met there fulfillment at the time of reformation.

There are shadows that will be used right up until the last day.

 

[Magenta]

Excellent summary...and totally correct with scriptures.

You both keep ignoring the FACT that water means Spirit, and Jesus said so.

Oh, I do not forget that this is too abstract, general, and esoteric for some

On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”

By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.
John 7:37-39a​

 

[garee]

Looks like a grape cheesecake..... yummy....

Reminds me of the purple girl an Willy Wanka .Don't eat to much .

 

[garee]

You both keep ignoring the FACT that water means Spirit, and Jesus said so.

Oh, I do not forget that this is too abstract, general, and esoteric for some

On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”

By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.
John 7:37-39a​

I would agree we are to compare spiritual words as the spiritual unseen, eternal to the same. (faith to faith) then we can hear God aright.

If we try and compare literal to the literal which the meaning is hid in parables then indeed water as that seen the temporal does more than get a person wet.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.1Co 2:9-13

Again not compare the literal as that seen, to the literal as that seen

We walk by faith (that not seen) according as it is written .We need his prescription in order to see the eternal

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[DJ2]

You both keep ignoring the FACT that water means Spirit, and Jesus said so.

Oh, I do not forget that this is too abstract, general, and esoteric for some

On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”

By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.
John 7:37-39a​

Or He simply meant water and Spirit. Both being distinct, hence the need for the conjunction. No esoteric knowledge needed.

 

[Magenta]

Looks like a grape cheesecake..... yummy....

I think it is made with purple yams They call it "Ube."

 

[Magenta]

Or He simply meant water and Spirit. Both being distinct, hence the need for the conjunction. No esoteric knowledge needed.

You ignore Scripture, for it specifically says HE MEANT THE SPIRIT.

 

[garee]

I think it is made with purple yams They call it "Ube."

Probably not a good idea to bake it when its purple raining.