Not By Works

[Stunnedbygrace]

Did Romans ad Galatians put to bed Matthew 6:15?

You can answer yes, if you really believe that.

Of course not. Romans and Galatians don't cancel out Mathew. And Mathew doesn't cancel out Romans and Galatians. But do you suppose that YOU are the one who changes your heart so that you even CAN forgive? If forgiveness was JUST a wise choice, and not something He gives us by changing your heart if you trust Him, then forgiveness would not require God at all.

You do not get to forgiveness by choice. You get to the virtue of forgiveness through trust. The obedience is not :FORGIVE! The obedience is: TRUST!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Hi Stunnedbygrace, praise God the veil has been taken away which means you can see clearly our Wonderful Savior. Everyone here became tired (not at you of course), as in fatigued trying to explain day after day that Jesus payed it all, all to Him we owe. What stands in their way to accept Jesus full payment for sin, is it pride or blinded by self confidence.

God bless you and keep stayed on that Gospel Way......

I don't think it is any one thing with each man that stands in the way. Each man is unique in his own way. His mind works differently from mine in how he begins to grasp it. And it is most often a combination of things. Yes, pride and self confidence, as you say.

With me, my biggest "stand in the ways" were pride and a desire to not die. I needed to see that I could not do it by my own willpower. But I am also careful. I'm not going to just trash a car until I am convinced it has no worth and cannot be made to run correctly!

This life is all a man knows. He's not going to give it up and die willingly until he is very convinced there is no other way. He wants eternal life, but if he doesn't have to die to get it, he isn't going to. He's going to try to grab the promise of eternal life while also keeping his life of pride, touchy feelings, self sufficiency, the right to defend himself, the right to not forgive a heinous crime against himself, the right to direct his own life, etc.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Hmmmm.... ElAmor wants to add OBEDIENCE to God's laws as a requirement for salvation? (based on his last quote to dcon that wasn't scripture)

How much OBEDIENCE is enough?

If you fall short, does that mean you don't get into heaven?

What happens if you trip and fall while running the race and break a leg?

What does God do?

What is God's role in what you see as the plan of salvation?

Is He just a cheerleader or does He carry you when you can't walk another step?

Does He nourishes you and give a you cool water to drink? Or is He a stern master expecting His dinner before He allows you the scraps from the table?

How does God work in your life?

The only obedience he wants from us is the obedience of trust. If He has that, He does make us law abiding in our inner man because we are trusting Him to do it.

 

[ElAmor]

Hmmmm.... ElAmor wants to add OBEDIENCE to God's laws as a requirement for salvation? (based on his last quote to dcon that wasn't scripture)

How much OBEDIENCE is enough?

If you fall short, does that mean you don't get into heaven?

What happens if you trip and fall while running the race and break a leg?

What does God do?

What is God's role in what you see as the plan of salvation?

Is He just a cheerleader or does He carry you when you can't walk another step?

Does He nourishes you and give a you cool water to drink? Or is He a stern master expecting His dinner before He allows you the scraps from the table?

How does God work in your life?

As my Lord, my king and my God, He instructs and commands me and i obey and do what He says.

As my Father, He loves me and guides me ànd i obey and follow Him and do what He says.

As my Creator, He is creating me to be like Him in true righteousness and holiness and i obey and do what He says.

...and He is always at the center of my life. I worship and serve Him with all my heart, my soul and mind and strength.

ALL POWER, GLORY, HONOR, PRAISE AND THANKSGIVING BE TO OUR GOD FOREVER AND EVER. AMEN!!!

 

[ElAmor]

Take it up with Jesus...the many that believe and push a works based salvation stand before him boasting of their works and not his work, power and promises....they get cast!

How then would you judge someone who teaches that obedience to the commandments can save?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

How then would you judge someone who teaches that obedience to the commandments can save?

Hopefully you wouldn't judge them but would try to teach them that murder doesn't just mean outwardly and that the law is for the inside of a man, his heart. Hopefully, you could get them to see that it is the obedience of trust that leads to a man being law abiding in his inner man. That it is accomplished, from start to finish, by trust.

 

[ElAmor]

Lets look at your list.

BELIEF, - simple belief saves no one, even demons believe yet tremble

FAITH, The work of God, it is not a work. It is us trusting God

CONFESSION - The tax collector confessed that he was a sinner, it was not a work. it was him admitting what he was, meanwhile as children of God, we confess our sins to him. Which is us admitting to God we have done things, If was

REPENTANCE - None of the above thingsd woudl take place apart from repentance. You would still be self centered and never ask God for his GIFT unless you repented. Because you would NEVER trust (have faith) in what he did, what he says about you beiong true, or what he is offering. You woudl either turn to not believing at all. Or believing in him, but Not having faith in him, proven by the fact you still think you must WORK to EARN his gift (ie religion,)

PREACHING, BAPTISM, OBEDIENCE , FAITH, HOPE, LOVE, WISDOM, HOLINESS, RIGHTEOUSNESS, GOOD WORKS, SERVICE, WORSHIP ETC. ARE ALL WORKS OF SALVATION THAT THE BODY OF CHRIST POSSESS AND DO FOR THE HONOR AND GLORY AND PRAISE OF GOD OUR FATHER AND HIS ONLY SON JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD AND SAVIOR.

All of these are works we are commanded to do AS CHILDREN OF GOD, and is part of running the race that paul spoke of.

not to BECOME children of God. Anyone who states these are required for final salation (justification) and not aspects of personal sanctification teaches a works based Gospel. Which will be rejected by God himself on the last day, because they have rejhected his way, and tried to demand he save them the worlds way.

Again, You are mixing justification and sanctification. And because you refuse to acknoweldge they are 2 different things, you are mixing works with Grace and believing in a perverted gospel.




Yes a child of God should do these things, But they do them as part of sanctification, not as part of justification (earning salvation)

Again, Your mixing grace and works, and rejecting tyhe pure gospel of CHrist. When you are ready to talk about how one is born again, recieves eternal life, and is justified freely by the grace of Christ. Let me know. As long as you will continue to push sanctification as part of earning justification. You will continue to fail to see the true gospel of grace

You should re-read my post again then compare it to your personal judgment and analysis then you will see how everyone like you in your group loves to reject the truth and twist it to fit your manmade false doctrine.

justification is through the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ ALONE , by the GRACE of GOD through our FAITH and not of WORKS by "ourselves".

Romans 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

CAN YOU BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART THAT GOD RAISED JESUS FROM THE DEAD AND THEREFORE BE JUSTIFIED, WITHOUT ANYONE PREACHING TO YOU THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST??? IS PREACHING NOT A WORK?

We are saved by believing(JUSTIFICATION) and confession of the Lord(WORKS OF FAITH, LOVE and OBEDIENCE that accompanies our confession)

There is no confession without believing and how can anyone believe without someone PREACHING to them?

2 Corinthians 9:13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.

John 12:42-50 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved praise from men more than praise from God. Then Jesus cried out, “When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. “As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

Luke 9:18-27 Peter’s confession of Christ Once when Jesus was praying in private and his disciples were with him, he asked them, “Who do the crowds say I am?” They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, that one of the prophets of long ago has come back to life.” “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Peter answered, “The Christ of God.” Jesus strictly warned them not to tell this to anyone. And he said, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.” Then he said to them all: “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self? If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”

John 17:14-19 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified


IF WE ARE TRULY SANCTIFIED BY THE TRUTH, WE WILL HAVE TO BEAR FRUIT OTHERWISE WE WILL BE CUT OFF.


Matthew 13:23 But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

Luke 6:43-45 A Tree and Its Fruit “No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.

Matthew 3:10 the ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

New International Version 1984 Matthew 13:11-15 He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

 

[ElAmor]

Hopefully you wouldn't judge them but would try to teach them that murder doesn't just mean outwardly and that the law is for the inside of a man, his heart. Hopefully, you could get them to see that it is the obedience of trust that leads to a man being law abiding in his inner man. That it is accomplished, from start to finish, by trust.

Amen Stunned but everyone can see the obvious that dcon is judging so i asked this question and i hope to receive an honest answer from him so i can leave this thread ASAP.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We can do all things through Christ who strengthens us, Even keep the law.

so you can do better than any man who ever lived but Christ and keep the whole law and not stumble in one area? Really?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hopefully you wouldn't judge them but would try to teach them that murder doesn't just mean outwardly and that the law is for the inside of a man, his heart. Hopefully, you could get them to see that it is the obedience of trust that leads to a man being law abiding in his inner man. That it is accomplished, from start to finish, by trust.

Only God can judge is what I would say, And the hope is that we would lead one to salvation, because without salvation and experiencing the true love of God in salvation, no one can be obedient, they may be able to not commit adultry, but 0bedience is far more than not commiting adultry, the command is just guide to use to expose us if we break that command, it does nto even tell us how to obey it. Because it was not given for that purpose.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Amen Stunned but everyone can see the obvious that dcon is judging so i asked this question and i hope to receive an honest answer from him so i can leave this thread ASAP.

Dcons point of focus is very narrow. I don't mean he is narrow. I mean, he is concerned about one thing - that men know that from start to finish, God makes us more and more like Jesus through trust.

Is dccon a finished work? Of course not. Does he maybe sometimes not speak this truth with as much love as he could? Maybe. Is he already perfect ahead of us?

But is what he says true? Is it true that we are saved and made law abiding in our inner man only through trust and not by trying really, really hard to make our heart perfect like our Lords' heart was perfect?

When I summarized what dccons main focus is, you agreed with me and said amen. So it appears to me that you don't have a problem with what he says but rather the way he says it. You think...he says it in a judgemental way instead of a loving way?

If that's the case, it's fine. Many people think this about him. Many think he would do so much good if he would dive into this thread with great love for, and gentle peaceableness toward, everyone who enters. He knows some feel this way and that they marvel at what they believe he could accomplish for his Lord if he softened - not in his stance, because it's true - but in his approach. He's heard it from a few. He won't get mad if you think it too. But if a man is saying what is true, then he is saying what is true.

 

[Ariel82]

As I've stated before, I agree, works don't save us, works are only a expression of faith,

True works don't come into play unto after you have faith, Once that is done works are manifested,
How can I say "I believe God" but I say God's name in vain, or worship my car instead of God?? steal from my neighbor, or hate my brother?

If you really love God you'll keep his commandments, Not so you can impress God, but because you love him, God doesn't need us, we need God, God's trying to bring us back to the original Man, Adam and Eve, No sin, no hatred,Pride,Selfishness,Covetousness, All of that taken out of our character through communion with him, However how can you know that Adultery (Covetousness) is bad without the law?

1 Timothy 1

8But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

The law doesn't make us holy, Only show us we need to be saved, That's why Jesus came, However the purpose of the law still stands, to show us were sinning,

Does not sinning make us holy? Yes and No, however that's impossible without the law, Not that law can make you holy, It's weak through the flesh to do so, our own carnal natures can't keep the law, does that mean the law is weak? No, were the weak ones, God gave us the power to keep the law, through loving him.

"If You Love Me Keep My Commandments"


But loving God must come first, we must love Jesus, and all he's done for us, we want to be separated from sin, and our carnal nature, so we can be closer to God and his character, once that happens the law has knew meaning, we automatically stop breaking it because we don't want to hurt him, Not through own power, we must ask him to help us, pray without ceasing, and my God's grace we overcome.


Works mean nothing on their own, Don't ever let me tell you that, they are empty, just doing something so you can get favors from God, However that's totally different from doing something because the idea that your gonna hurt your savior and be separated from him if you do this thing,

Just let me ask you, If works are no longer important, then is committing adultery alright? or murder? or cursing God? or Worshiping Satan himself? Because if works have no purpose in religion as you seem to be hinting then all of those things are perfectly fine, and Jesus attest to that.

I'm not saying were gonna get into Heaven by our works, No, definitely not, but those works are only truly manifested if you have faith, and love God, otherwise it's done selfishly, but God didn't intend for it to be that way, Satan always has a counterfit of what God wants, he make our good works to do as God has commanded because we love him, Into trying to apeas God with our afflictions that we put on ourselves and God never gave,
But that doesn't make works bad, only why your carrying out those works.

What does this mean to you...

12This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

The ten commandments are more than what you state and good works comes from God's love of us and when we want to share God's love with others.

Christianity isn't a solo religion and we find Sabbath rest in Christ every day.

God commands some to hold one day specials, others to eat no meat, others to value each day equally holy and all food good to eat with thanks giving. He calls those who eat no meat week in faith, but commands us to accept them still. One should have Sabbath rest in Christ every day, but at the very least one day a week. Most people agree with that statement unless they have a man made legalistic view of the Sabbath.

The Law summarised in the ten commandments and further summarised by Jesus: to love God and love your neighbor...reveals our sins and inability to fully do either as we should.

Not that I am saying we shouldn't try with the ability God has given us. I am saying we should be honest and realize how God is still teaching us and how we much we still need to grow in Him.

I am going to keep reading but i don't think you understand my point about idols.

 

[Ariel82]

As my Lord, my king and my God, He instructs and commands me and i obey and do what He says.

As my Father, He loves me and guides me ànd i obey and follow Him and do what He says.

As my Creator, He is creating me to be like Him in true righteousness and holiness and i obey and do what He says.

...and He is always at the center of my life. I worship and serve Him with all my heart, my soul and mind and strength.

ALL POWER, GLORY, HONOR, PRAISE AND THANKSGIVING BE TO OUR GOD FOREVER AND EVER. AMEN!!!

How much OBEDIENCE is enough?

If you fall short, does that mean you don't get into heaven?

What happens if you trip and fall while running the race and break a leg?

What does God do?

Does He nourishes you and give a you cool water to drink? Or is He a stern master expecting His dinner before He allows you the scraps from the table?

****

You answered some of my questions but not these.

What happens if God convicts and chastens you of sin?

Or do you always obey perfectly?

 

[Ariel82]

How then would you judge someone who teaches that obedience to the commandments can save?

I would say, they wish to be under the Old Covenant and not the New Covenant, because it's not obedience to commandments that saves.

It is faith in the living God, who does for our sins and loves us enough to adopt us into His family. The living God who sends the Holy spirit to seal us.

I would judge that they don't understand the Gospel Jesus preached because they don't understand the focus isn't obedience but Jesus.

Out of the overflowing love we obey not for salvation but for love of others God has placed in our hearts.

It's not about works, but what his your TRUE focus?

 

[Ariel82]

Hopefully you wouldn't judge them but would try to teach them that murder doesn't just mean outwardly and that the law is for the inside of a man, his heart. Hopefully, you could get them to see that it is the obedience of trust that leads to a man being law abiding in his inner man. That it is accomplished, from start to finish, by trust.

No folks who worship their filthy rags and think that it can save them, need to be shown their true state and told the Gospel: they can't save themselves they need a savior.

They can't clean their torn up filthy rags, they need the imputed righteousness of Christ and His white robes.

They can't put hobble along with the law and think it will carry them to heaven, they need to crucify it and their flesh to the cross and be born again.

I would teach them how they fall short of the law and what God truly values, which is trust and faith in Him alone.

However before someone can fully trust God, they have to realize their misplaced trust in self and their obedience is just works of their hands and not of faith.

 

[mailmandan]

However before someone can fully trust God, they have to realize their misplaced trust in self and their obedience is just works of their hands and not of faith.

Either we are trusting 100% in Christ for salvation or else we are 100% lost. Until those who have misplaced their trust in self come to realize it by getting to the end of the creature, they will not get to the beginning of the Creator.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Good morning, my peeps..

 

[Ariel82]

The only obedience he wants from us is the obedience of trust. If He has that, He does make us law abiding in our inner man because we are trusting Him to do it.

I normally hear it called faith. Faith that God loves us enough to not only cleanse us from our sins but teach us to walk in His righteousness and add to our faith, virtue, wisdom, self control, perseverance, brotherly kindness and agape love...,then we do good works out of love for others that God has given us and not just obedience or self control...

The Pharisees fell short because their focus was on keeping the Law and not the Law giver.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You should re-read my post again then compare it to your personal judgment and analysis then you will see how everyone like you in your group loves to reject the truth and twist it to fit your manmade false doctrine.

Lets see how good you are at proving how I twisted what you said.

justification is through the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ ALONE , by the GRACE of GOD through our FAITH and not of WORKS by "ourselves".

Romans 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

CAN YOU BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART THAT GOD RAISED JESUS FROM THE DEAD AND THEREFORE BE JUSTIFIED, WITHOUT ANYONE PREACHING TO YOU THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST??? IS PREACHING NOT A WORK?

Did you preach to yourself to earn your salvation? You may be able to teach others and help them understand the truth so they can be able to make a decision to trust Christ, But you can not teach yourself. If anything the holy spirit has to teach you through conviction, you of sin righteousne4ss and judgment,

We are saved by believing(JUSTIFICATION) and confession of the Lord(WORKS OF FAITH, LOVE and OBEDIENCE that accompanies our confession)

You are saved by FAITH, not mere belief (james says even demons believe) you loved to quote james 2, yet miss the part about just believing, apart from faith being a dead faith. You are unable to love God or anyone else,. Until God first loves you,. Which you experience the MOMENT you are saved,so to say works of love are required before salvation is impossible

There is no confession without believing and how can anyone believe without someone PREACHING to them?

You forgot repentance. There is no FAITH without repentance, without faith, there will be no cofession (what do you think needs to be confessed) and preaching is someone elses job. Not yours so it does not fit into the equation of what YOU must do to be saved.

Once again, it takesd more than belief to save a person even demons believe,

2 Corinthians 9:13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.

Once again your talking about sanctification, WHat happens AFTER one is saved, and trying to relate it to being saved, WRONG. This verse talks about how men will praise god because of our works. Not of how you must work to be saved.

John 12:42-50 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved praise from men more than praise from God. Then Jesus cried out, “When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. “As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

What part of I did not come to judge but to save do you not comprehend?

WHo did he come to save? The one who has faith in him. For whoever has faith in him not only believes in him, but the father.

No works here.

Luke 9:18-27 Peter’s confession of Christ Once when Jesus was praying in private and his disciples were with him, he asked them, “Who do the crowds say I am?” They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, that one of the prophets of long ago has come back to life.” “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Peter answered, “The Christ of God.” Jesus strictly warned them not to tell this to anyone. And he said, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.” Then he said to them all: “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self? If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”

Again, whats your point? Jesus confgessed jesus, amen, What did Peter say in John 6? Where else are we to go. YOU HAVE THE WORDS OF ETERNAL LIFE, and we have come to know you are the Christ. That is what saves a person. NO WORKS INVOLVED.

What does it take to come to faith? DENYING SELF. Why? Because as long as you trust self. YOU WILL NEVER TRUST GOD!

Again, no works, it is as Jesus said in the sermon on the mount, a perosn must become Bankrupt (poor in spirit) in order to come to God to be blessed (saved)

John 17:14-19 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified


IF WE ARE TRULY SANCTIFIED BY THE TRUTH, WE WILL HAVE TO BEAR FRUIT OTHERWISE WE WILL BE CUT OFF.

IF YOUR TRULY SANCTIFIED YOU WILL BEAR FRUIT, there will be no cutting off. Because those who are sanctified WILL PRODUCE FRUIT.

Again, your mixing sanctification with justification. Thats an error. And adding works to the gospel

Matthew 13:23 But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

Luke 6:43-45 A Tree and Its Fruit “No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.

Matthew 3:10 the ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

New International Version 1984 Matthew 13:11-15 He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

More sanctification passages, We are talking about justification here my friend, it is fruitless to discuss sanctification and what one must do to allow God to sanctify them BEFORE they are saved, because it is meaningless to them, and adding works of sanctification to the gospel of Christ to help a pertson get saved is legalism, and is no different than the pharisee.

FOr saying I was twisting your works, and wrong about what you said, you sure failed. If nothing you proved even more what I said was correct.

News flash my friend, this is a thread on how one is saved, If you want to talk about what happens AFTER one is given eternal life. Sealed wiht the spirit. Redeemed by the blood of Christ, Justified, Born again in CHrist and everything else God promises to those who come to him, then open another thread.

Mixing grace and works is a false gospel. And according to paul is to be anathemad.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This thread is about mixing law and grace as a means to eternal salvation.

It is not about sanctification, or what a person who has been saved should look like, or what they should do. If people want tyo talk about that and what empowers us to be sanctified. Then they need to open another thread.

For those whoever who want to mix sanctification and justification and say they are both required to be saved in the end, this thread is for you, in hopes you will find Gods truth, and know the truth about the gospel of Christ which is fully able to save you. Not based on how good you are (you will never meet Godfs standard) but based on HIS LOVE, HIS WORK, and HIS MERCY AND GRACE.