What makes you think they are NOT in Heaven? All the OT saints are in Heaven. So are all the NT saints.
Will Some NonChristians (Unbelievers) Get to Heaven?
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claysmithr
Guest
Some people in this thread argue that Jesus is the ONLY way. They forget that God is the ultimate judge and has mercy on whom he has mercy. That includes OT saints, aborted babies, pple below the age of accountability (of which some may never reach, it's different for each human).
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Abraham believed and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
How did we forget them? They had to come to God in faith too.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Well since Jesus is God, and he said he is the only way, I would take him at his word!
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
They walked and talked with pre-incarnate Jesus, And he slaughtered an animal, and covered their nakedness.
I think they Knew God and that God would provide a provision to take their sins well.. They too had to be saved by faith.
They did not have to know jesus by name, is this what your getting at?
Nope, Abraham is known as the father of faith, so what happens before Abraham?
Walking and talking with preincarnate Jesus is not a thing, Nebuchadnezzar was God's servant despite all that he did.
I would say the OT believers will come into heaven according the revealation they had in their time.
How they could believe in Jesus? But I am shure that nobody will can blame God for not coming into heaven.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
ok. So tell us, If Adam and Eve and noah were not saved by faith, how were they saved? Remembering tyhat God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. He never changes. When did God change?
Jesus' death and resurrection divides people into two groups, those before this event are all saved IMO because they were under the law. The law is of the flesh just like the constitution of a country, it targets the flesh- if one breaks the law they suffer in their flesh as payment. Everyone sinned and they died in the flesh but their souls were atoned for by the work on cross- just as sin came through one man and therefore death to ALL men, salvation comes through one man (Jesus) and life to ALL men but the people post death and resurrection are saved yet they have to believe and acknowledge the work on the cross- not believing is like rejecting the forgiveness that is being offered.
This is the reason Daniel was astonished by the fourth beast which represents us (Post Jesus' death), it crushed and left nothing. The only hope for us is the blood of the lamb. But the people who do not get to hear the law of Christ stay saved/atoned by the work of the cross because it is for all men starting from Adam & Eve. The babies/physically challenged/mentally ill all stay saved by the work of the cross.
Without going into a lot of detailed explanation, my answer to that would be that they looked forward in faith to Jesus (see Hebrews 11). So in one sense we could say they were believers in Christ, though very different from the New Testament church.
I always wonder about those who died, before Jesus came to this world, as well about those, who never heard about Him how they will be judge or will they do have a chance to get to the heaven
For me was Romans 2 and 1 Peter 3 an acceptable and enough satisfying answer
Romans 2
For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. So for those who never heard about Jesus and died, they will be judge by their conscience which was everyone given by God and Paul states here, that there is a possibility and chance for them.
Also Peter said, in following, that Jesus after His death preached the gospel unto the spirits in prison (the descend part) so even they had a fair chance …
1 Peter 3
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
That means imho, that people who during their lifetime didn’t believe in Jesus (bcs they didn’t hear about Him) have still a chance to get to the heaven
For me was Romans 2 and 1 Peter 3 an acceptable and enough satisfying answer
Romans 2
For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. So for those who never heard about Jesus and died, they will be judge by their conscience which was everyone given by God and Paul states here, that there is a possibility and chance for them.
Also Peter said, in following, that Jesus after His death preached the gospel unto the spirits in prison (the descend part) so even they had a fair chance …
1 Peter 3
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
That means imho, that people who during their lifetime didn’t believe in Jesus (bcs they didn’t hear about Him) have still a chance to get to the heaven
Last time you commented I think it got deleted it seems like, glad to see you have posted again Sister in Christ.
How about this answer:
EVERYONE will get to heaven. Every one stands before the White Throne.
NOT everyone will get to the new earth. That is solely for those who believe in their hearts and confess with their lips that Jesus Christ is the savior.
Unbelievers will be given this creation back, in it's natural state apart from God.
And since some will not understand that one, I'll digress...
I don’t think God consigns anyone to 'hell'. Suppose I built a resort for the homeless, and all I asked was that on their way in the door they acknowledge and thank me for doing so. “Hey man, I really appreciate you doing this” and you’re in the door. Tell me to kiss off, and you can go sit on the curb outside. Am I really responsible for those who chose to sit on the curb outside?
Too, our universe is made up at the subatomic level with clusters of like charged particles, which science tells us should naturally repel each other. They call the unknown factor that keeps it all from exploding "the strong force". There are several theories as to the source of this ‘strong force’, including God’s claim that He holds it all together. Now, on that theory, He says He spoke it all into being out of nothingness, while science says out of nothingness kaboom there it is. Then God also says that some day He will speak it out of existence. Paul describes that moment with the elements will melt with fervent heat (2 Peter 3:7, 10, 12). Think of what happens when the atom is split – intense heat and fire.
Now, the interesting thing is that we don’t see the lake of fire (what we equate to eternal hell) appear until right after this present earth and heavens are decreated. Could it be that the de-creation of our world creates the lake of fire, and God lets those who loved this world more than Him have it in its natural state apart from Him?
EVERYONE will get to heaven. Every one stands before the White Throne.
NOT everyone will get to the new earth. That is solely for those who believe in their hearts and confess with their lips that Jesus Christ is the savior.
Unbelievers will be given this creation back, in it's natural state apart from God.
And since some will not understand that one, I'll digress...
I don’t think God consigns anyone to 'hell'. Suppose I built a resort for the homeless, and all I asked was that on their way in the door they acknowledge and thank me for doing so. “Hey man, I really appreciate you doing this” and you’re in the door. Tell me to kiss off, and you can go sit on the curb outside. Am I really responsible for those who chose to sit on the curb outside?
Too, our universe is made up at the subatomic level with clusters of like charged particles, which science tells us should naturally repel each other. They call the unknown factor that keeps it all from exploding "the strong force". There are several theories as to the source of this ‘strong force’, including God’s claim that He holds it all together. Now, on that theory, He says He spoke it all into being out of nothingness, while science says out of nothingness kaboom there it is. Then God also says that some day He will speak it out of existence. Paul describes that moment with the elements will melt with fervent heat (2 Peter 3:7, 10, 12). Think of what happens when the atom is split – intense heat and fire.
Now, the interesting thing is that we don’t see the lake of fire (what we equate to eternal hell) appear until right after this present earth and heavens are decreated. Could it be that the de-creation of our world creates the lake of fire, and God lets those who loved this world more than Him have it in its natural state apart from Him?
I don't think I get all you are saying . . . without getting into all the prophecy . . . I am interested to see others' response to what is being said here.
God's promise isn't that we will spend eternity in heaven, it's that we will spend eternity on the New Earth. E-v-e-r-y body, sinner and saint alike, will stand before God on His White Throne in heaven. So to answer the question, will non-Christians see heaven, yes, when they are given final judgment before God. Then believers are given the new earth and heavens to populate. And I believe the unsaved are left to this creation in it's natural state apart from God.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
This is not true. Death and hades are DELIEVERED to Christ for judgment at the great white throne. No believer will be there
Those who are lost die, and are sent to Hades. Not those who are made alive in Christ. They have eternal life. Jesus said they will never die, live forever, and be ressurected BY christ, not delivered to him.
Scripture says this earth and everything in it will pass away.
Here are 20 Bible verses about it
https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Things-Passing-Away
Okay, the White Throne Judgement takes place on earth after the millennial reign on earth. All those that had never had a chance to serve Christ will have their chance here. This includes the infant son of David, all the stillborn, toddlers, mentally handicapped and they that lived in Mongolia 600 BC. God is not going to raise all the people that has ever lived, to pass judgement on them because they just did not make the cut.
Those believers now are the blessed and holy bride of Christ that are being judged daily. There is no further judgement for them. The White Throne Judgement will be when most learn of Christ's sacrifice and then given their portion of the Holy Spirit. Satan will be loosed a little season to deceive those that reject the HS anointing. Some people will always insist on being evil. They will be mercifully destroyed and the end of all things. Most people will be saved during the WT Judgement.
I believe that this time of judgement will last 100 years based on the following scripture: Isaiah 65:17-25:"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them. And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD." So, shoot me down if I am wrong.
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