Not By Works

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LightLoveHope

Banned
#58,121
Jan 25, 2018
673
10
0
#58,121
One thing loses me a little.

Do you know purity and holiness or cleansing, or being forgiven so the burden of sin
and guilt has been lifted off you by the Lord?

If so, amen. If not, the Lord offers this very thing to you if you repent and humble
yourself before Him. He is the great King, the healer of our wounds, sins, failures,
the one who makes us whole and brings resolution to deep problems we find impossible
to let go. He makes it possible. I know people here carry such burdens, but the Lord
is calling you to let them go, reach out to Him and find release and healing. So this
is what I simple ask, reach out in faith, today and find that release He promises, Amen.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#58,122
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#58,122
LightLoveHope said:
Here is the problem. I do not have an anger issue.
Anger always has a cause, which may not be legitimate and may be.
We are a people of peace and love so anger should be unusual.
Click to expand...
I agree that anger should become more and more unusual for us if we keep trusting God ( abiding).
My concern is not that you have an issue with daily anger.
My concern is that you try to teach that anger without cause in your heart is not murder. It is.

Your interpretation of brother appears to be your neighbor.
Click to expand...
This would require a whole 'nother conversation on: and who is my brother? It would be a worthy conversation to have!


So I am not supporting anger, or its use, or have an issue with it.
I am cautious though being as strong as you are on anger, knowing how badly
people are at anger repression.
Click to expand...
Anger repression, as I've said, is good for society. But we are greatly deceived if we think to hide it in our heart is being holy.

So the narrow path is about walking like Jesus. So I wonder what appears to
be your issue, like I am not a brother in Christ following Jesus.
Do I know you? Is this walk I know a walk you know? Because you are shaking
my belief we have fellowship.
Click to expand...
My only issue is at the teaching that anger in my heart without cause is not murder. It does not make me say you are not my brother in Christ. We do have disagreement over this point though.

Or are you a blast them away type american, if they are a threat?
Click to expand...
Do you feel I have approached you with an attitude of blast peter away...?
Do I seem to you to think you are a threat to me?
Have I ever called you not my brother?
 
L

LightLoveHope

Banned
#58,123
Jan 25, 2018
673
10
0
#58,123
Stunnedbygrace said:
My concern is not that you have an issue with daily anger.
My concern is that you try to teach that anger without cause in your heart is not murder. It is.
Click to expand...
Funny thing about anger, is you are the one who keeps raising the issue.
Your definition of a teaching "anger without cause in your heart is murder" you want me to
accept.
1. Anger - how do you define this, annoyance, loathing, resentment, irritation
2. Target - an individual or a thing or an attitude
3. Murder - immediately you think it, over an extended time, more than 24 hours etc
4. Cause - what is a legitimate cause and what is not

Murder is simple. Someone is dead and the situation was unjustified. When the person dies
murder begins.

Anger is more of a problem and what you would regard as justified.
I know of people who are angry at their teachers for setting homework
I know people who are angry at their bosses for asking them to do work well.

I am not settled at the moment where I am on all these particular issues, other than
anger in some form and in some circumstances is murder.

Am I now guilty of something bad, or heretical or evil?
Funnily some here are happy to say whatever I share I am wrong, :)

Wonder if they know what loving your enemy means and loving your brothers and sisters
in Christ is. It is certainly is not this behavior and me pointing it out will also be wood
to the fire, lol. It is a sad spiritual reality when people are this far from the Lord.

And some have been angry at me for just being obedient to Jesus. So mind boggling.
 
L

LightLoveHope

Banned
#58,124
Jan 25, 2018
673
10
0
#58,124
By the way, it is so american, the six shooter and various gun totting attitudes,
I could not resist this mental image of me being a target people would want to eliminate.

It is why such threads as this are anonymous, else you never know what might happen.
Certainly there are some people on the internet I would only ever talk to anonymously, lol.
I had hoped it was true here also, but I do begin to have my doubts.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#58,125
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#58,125
LightLoveHope said:
Funny thing about anger, is you are the one who keeps raising the issue.
Your definition of a teaching "anger without cause in your heart is murder" you want me to
accept.
1. Anger - how do you define this, annoyance, loathing, resentment, irritation
2. Target - an individual or a thing or an attitude
3. Murder - immediately you think it, over an extended time, more than 24 hours etc
4. Cause - what is a legitimate cause and what is not

Murder is simple. Someone is dead and the situation was unjustified. When the person dies
murder begins.

Anger is more of a problem and what you would regard as justified.
I know of people who are angry at their teachers for setting homework
I know people who are angry at their bosses for asking them to do work well.

I am not settled at the moment where I am on all these particular issues, other than
anger in some form and in some circumstances is murder.

Am I now guilty of something bad, or heretical or evil?
Funnily some here are happy to say whatever I share I am wrong, :)

Wonder if they know what loving your enemy means and loving your brothers and sisters
in Christ is. It is certainly is not this behavior and me pointing it out will also be wood
to the fire, lol. It is a sad spiritual reality when people are this far from the Lord.

And some have been angry at me for just being obedient to Jesus. So mind boggling.
Click to expand...
Have I called you bad, heretical or evil?
I love to have conversations with a brother or sister like you and I have had today.
I think we both walk away stronger and with many things to consider when we can have a peaceful conversation.
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#58,126
Feb 15, 2017
9,022
4,441
113
#58,126
Stunnedbygrace said:
I agree that anger should become more and more unusual for us if we keep trusting God ( abiding).
My concern is not that you have an issue with daily anger.
My concern is that you try to teach that anger without cause in your heart is not murder. It is.



This would require a whole 'nother conversation on: and who is my brother? It would be a worthy conversation to have!




Anger repression, as I've said, is good for society. But we are greatly deceived if we think to hide it in our heart is being holy.



My only issue is at the teaching that anger in my heart without cause is not murder. It does not make me say you are not my brother in Christ. We do have disagreement over this point though.



Do you feel I have approached you with an attitude of blast peter away...?
Do I seem to you to think you are a threat to me?
Have I ever called you not my brother?
Click to expand...
Stunned,

Can you quote the verses where anger in the heart equates murder.

Ta
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#58,127
#58,127
Stunnedbygrace said:
I agree that anger should become more and more unusual for us if we keep trusting God ( abiding).
My concern is not that you have an issue with daily anger.
My concern is that you try to teach that anger without cause in your heart is not murder. It is.



This would require a whole 'nother conversation on: and who is my brother? It would be a worthy conversation to have!




Anger repression, as I've said, is good for society. But we are greatly deceived if we think to hide it in our heart is being holy.



My only issue is at the teaching that anger in my heart without cause is not murder. It does not make me say you are not my brother in Christ. We do have disagreement over this point though.



Do you feel I have approached you with an attitude of blast peter away...?
Do I seem to you to think you are a threat to me?
Have I ever called you not my brother?
Click to expand...
Your conversation with LLH sure sounds familiar.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#58,129
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#58,129
LightLoveHope said:
Murder is simple. Someone is dead and the situation was unjustified. When the person dies
murder begins.
Click to expand...
Except that Jesus says the murder has already happened before, or even if, a person literally dies or not.

I agree it's good to look at if our anger is a righteous anger at great injustice or whether the anger is just hurt and touchy pride.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#58,131
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#58,131
BillG said:
Stunned,

Can you quote the verses where anger in the heart equates murder.

Ta
Click to expand...
[TABLE="width: 100%, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="class: odd, width: 20%, bgcolor: #F0F9FF, align: left"]
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:​
[/TD]
[TD="class: odd, width: 20%, bgcolor: #F0F9FF, align: left"]21
"You have heard that it was said to our ancestors, Do not murder, and whoever murders will be subject to judgment.​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="width: 100%, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="class: even, width: 20%, align: left"]22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.​
[/TD]
[TD="class: even, width: 20%, align: left"]22
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.​
[/TD]
[TD="class: even, width: 20%, align: left"]22
"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.​
[/TD]
[TD="class: even, width: 20%, align: left"]22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.​
[/TD]
[TD="class: even, width: 20%, align: left"]22
But I tell you, everyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Fool!' will be subject to the Sanhedrin. But whoever says, You moron!' will be subject to hellfire.​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
L

LightLoveHope

Banned
#58,132
Jan 25, 2018
673
10
0
#58,132
Stunnedbygrace said:
Have I called you bad, heretical or evil?
I love to have conversations with a brother or sister like you and I have had today.
I think we both walk away stronger and with many things to consider when we can have a peaceful conversation.
Click to expand...
Hi Stunned,

I have to say you have not called me a liar, bad, evil heretical.
But to look at other thread contributors the same cannot be said.

Here is an interesting discussion on anger and a christian perspective
https://www.whatchristianswanttokno...angry-and-not-sin-is-it-biblical-to-be-angry/

So what I want to emphasize is I have not formed a position I am happy with.
I obviously should, because for many this is a serious problem.

You mentioned repression, which I actually regard as dangerous.
I say this after teaching children how to anger manage and understand their
own triggers.
 
L

LightLoveHope

Banned
#58,134
Jan 25, 2018
673
10
0
#58,134
On the subject of "brother" this has to be referring to believers, because a
non-believer in God is a fool, and it is not evil or wrong to call a non-believer
a fool for not believing in Jesus.

This adds to my reluctance to be definitive on ones approach.
But then I must be wrong, or else I would know. But how do I learn unless I
spend time balancing up the issues, my heart, Gods word and the truth as far
as I know it, in the Holy Spirit and before the Lord.

And I do care deeply about such things, because I love my Lord and He desires
we all grow in oneness and agreement in His will. Amen.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#58,135
#58,135
BillG said:
Welcome back brother.

How are the eyes?
Click to expand...
Still blurry some but better. About another week to go before really gets good and 2 to 3 weeks before completely healed
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#58,136
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#58,136
LightLoveHope said:
Hi Stunned,

I have to say you have not called me a liar, bad, evil heretical.
But to look at other thread contributors the same cannot be said.

Here is an interesting discussion on anger and a christian perspective
https://www.whatchristianswanttokno...angry-and-not-sin-is-it-biblical-to-be-angry/

So what I want to emphasize is I have not formed a position I am happy with.
I obviously should, because for many this is a serious problem.

You mentioned repression, which I actually regard as dangerous.
I say this after teaching children how to anger manage and understand their
own triggers.
Click to expand...
I agree. And for US (followers) repression is deadly. It is to keep the outside of the cup clean while the inside is full of filth. It is to profess with our mouth but keep what is in our heart from Him. Which is ridiculous when you think about it because our hearts are an open book to Him. He sees everything in them, good or bad.

I'm reading the article you posted. The only thing I have seen that I don't agree with so far is that he says paul gave us a command to be angry. I do not believe that this was his intent. I believe he was saying...IF you are angry, do not sin in your anger. We take it to God. We say: Lord, I can see that even though I said I wasn't angry, here I am fuming about what so and so did or said to me and I'm not letting it go in forgiveness. Help me Lord. Make my heart pure. Make me pleasing to you and give me forgiveness for them because I'm finding the opposite in my heart. So...I don't think paul was saying: I give you this command from the Lord: Be angry! :D Okay, I'm off to finish the article. :)
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

Senior Member
#58,137
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
#58,137
How did decon's bible based discussion about "Grace vs Works" diminish into a personal discussion about "anger." The topic of anger and Christian behavior belongs on its own thread. I see no wrong with a few posts that are off topic but this seems a bit overboard. The word "anger" has been used no less than 75 times on the last 3 pages, in less than 3hrs. :confused:
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#58,138
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#58,138
LightLoveHope said:
On the subject of "brother" this has to be referring to believers, because a
non-believer in God is a fool, and it is not evil or wrong to call a non-believer
a fool for not believing in Jesus.

This adds to my reluctance to be definitive on ones approach.
But then I must be wrong, or else I would know. But how do I learn unless I
spend time balancing up the issues, my heart, Gods word and the truth as far
as I know it, in the Holy Spirit and before the Lord.

And I do care deeply about such things, because I love my Lord and He desires
we all grow in oneness and agreement in His will. Amen.
Click to expand...

Thank goodness we have some verses on it because one man literally asked Jesus: "and who is my brother?" :)
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#58,139
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#58,139
TruthTalk said:
How did decon's bible based discussion about "Grace vs Works" diminish into a personal discussion about "anger." The topic of anger and Christian behavior belongs on its own thread. I see no wrong with a few posts that are off topic but this seems a bit overboard. The word "anger" has been used no less than 75 times on the last 3 pages, in less than 3hrs. :confused:
Click to expand...
You don't see it as fitting the discussion of not by works? :)
If it is impossible for men to never have anger in their hearts, to never murder in spirit, then they must say: it can't be by works because this is an impossible demand for any human. I will have to trust Him to change me. That is a change through faith and not by works.
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

Senior Member
#58,140
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
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#58,140
eternally-gratefull said:
Your conversation with LLH sure sounds familiar.
Click to expand...
And the word anger as been used 47 times just on this page and 28 times in the last 3hrs, a few posts off topic is perfectly okay but 3 pages about the subject of anger is way too excessive, don't ya think....
 
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