GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

LoveGodForever · Mar 11, 2018

Hello MMD,

Maybe this may help your understanding of the scriptures....

Let's look at God's Word and the real meaning behind the use of the GREEK word for law in the NEW TESTAMENT.

The Word meaning all comes down to CONTEXT and how it is used that determines its application......

NEW TESTAMENT USE AND MEANINGS FOR THE GREEK WORD LAW "NOMOS" AND "ENTIOLE" IS CONTEXT OF APPLICATION WITHIN SCRIPTURE AND CHAPTER

This is because generally the word used for law in the NEW Testament Greek meaning is "nomos" νόμος ;nomos ;nom'-os From a primary word νέμω nemō (to parcel out, especially food or grazing to animals); law (through the idea of prescriptive usage), generally (regulation), specifically (of Moses [including the volume]; also of the Gospel), or figuratively (a principle): - law.

This word is used to cover all the OLD testament laws collectively that make up the OLD Covenant (TORAH) but it is the application of the word used in CONTEXT of the chapter and within scripture CONTEXT that determines its application and meaning.

The use of the term law (nomos) in the New Testament is comparable. In some instances the word law refers to the Old Covenant Scriptures, and the focus is on the Pentateuch: “the Law and the Prophets” (Matt. 5:17; 7:12; 22:40; Luke 16:16; 24:44; John 1:45; Acts 13:15; 24:14; 28:23; Rom. 3:21; Matt. 11:13).

In some texts “Law” alone seems to refer broadly to the Old Testament Scriptures (Matt. 22:36; Luke 10:26; John 7:49; 10:34; 12:34; 15:25; 1 Cor. 9:8–9; 14:21, 34; Gal. 4:21), though in some of these texts a particular precept from the Mosaic law may be in view as well (John 7:49; 1 Cor. 9:8–9; 14:34).

Nevertheless, in the New Testament, as we saw in the Old Testament, the term law most often refers to what is commanded in the Gods law (10 Commandments). Matthew speaks of every “iota” and “dot” of the law (Matt. 5:18), and it is clear from the next verse that he is referring here to the “commandments” found in the law (Matt. 5:19).

Elsewhere Matthew considers particular matters commanded in the law (Matt. 22:36; 23:23). Similarly, Luke often uses the word law to refer to what is prescribed in statutes (Luke 2:22, 23, 24, 27, 39; Acts 23:3) or uses the term to refer collectively to what is commanded in God's 10 Commandments (Acts 6:13; 7:53; 13:39; 15:5; 21:24; 22:3, 12; 25:8). Similarly, when John does not use the word law to refer to the Pentateuch or the Scriptures, he uses it to refer to the Mosaic law (John 7:19, 23, 51; 8:17; 19:7).

Paul regularly thinks of the law in terms of its commands, and this is evident because he speaks of those who sin by violating the law, of the need to do what the law says, and of relying upon and being instructed in the law (Rom. 2:17, 18, 20).

When Paul speaks of righteousness (Rom. 3:21; 9:31; 10:4; Gal. 2:21; 3:11; 5:4; Phil. 3:6, 9) or the inheritance (Rom. 4:13–14, 16; Gal. 3:18) not being attained via the law, he has in mind doing what the law commands.

The law is conceived of as a body of commands summarized in the Mosaic covenant, which came at a certain time in history (Rom. 5:13; 7:4, 6; 9:4; 1 Cor. 9:20, 21; 15:56; Gal. 2:19; 3:17, 19, 21), and the phrase “under law” fits here as well (Rom. 6:14, 15; 7:1; Gal. 3:23, 24; 4:4, 5; 5:18).

In the book of Hebrews the word law always refers to the Mosaic law for remission of sin and the levitical priesthoodand to the Mosaic covenant (Heb. 7:5, 11, 12, 19, 28; 8:4; 9:19, 22; 10:1, 8, 28), with the focus being on the prescriptions for priests and sacrifices that are offered.

The above is not exhaustive but show that it is the CONTEXT and application of the Greek word "nomos" that determines what law it is referring to wheather God's LAW (10 Commandments), the Mosaic laws individually or collectively as the Torah or OLD Covenant.

OLD TESTAMENT EQUIVALLENT FOR LAW GREEK WORD LAW (NOMOS) IS TORAH

The word for law in the Old Testament Hebrew is torah; in the Greek New Testament it is nomos. It is often said that torah in the Old Testament does not refer so much to commands (to the keeping of commandments) as it does to instruction (to teaching) of the five books of Moses (Genesis; Exodus; Leviticus; Deuteronomy and Numbers)

However in the Old Testament other descriptive words are used (e.g. Commandment(s); Statute(s); Ordinance(s); Testimony (ies) and Rule(s) to name a few) to separate the various laws of the Torah (collective) but once again like has been shown above the general word Torah can be used to refer to any one of the other words and it is the CONTEXT of application that determines the specific meaning

For example....

Verbs for Obedience

KEEP (Gen. 26:5; Deut. 17:19; 28:58; 31:12; Josh. 22:5; 1 Kings 2:3; 1 Chron. 22:12; Ps. 119:34, 44; Prov. 28:4; 29:18; Jer. 16:11; Ezek. 44:24) WALK IN (Exod. 16:4; 2 Kings 10:31; Ps. 78:10; Jer. 26:4; 32:23; 44:10; Dan. 9:10)
DO (Deut. 27:26; 29:29; 31:12; 32:46; Josh. 1:7–8) BREAK (Deut. 27:26; 29:29; 31:12; 32:46; Josh. 1:7–8) OBEY (Isaiah 42:24)

Verbs for Disobedience

FORGET (Hos 4:6; Ps. 119:61, 109, 153) TRANSGRESS (Dan 9:11 ) ABANDON (2 Chron 12:1) FORSAKEN ( Psalms 89:30; 119:53; Jer. 9:13) REJECT(S) (Isa 5:24; Jer 6:19; Amos 2:4)

SO NO MMD your application and argument is shown through the scriptures to be false. The meaning of the word is generated through the CONTEXT of scripture application in the NEW Testament application of the Greek word used for law (nomos) as well as the OLD Testament use of the Hebrew word Torah and other Hebrew Words used to describe God's 10 Commandments.

Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN have no REST and will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

PS · Mar 11, 2018

lightbearer said:

It is a conditional particle which the extant of Greek manuscripts all concur. But none of the manuscripts have a negative particle. Those translations you cited are taking a liberty they ought not take. They do it it because the feel the writer of Hebrews meant to quote Psalm 95:11 verbatim. He did not. The Word stands as is.

The Gospel is conditional in respect to unbelief (obstinate stiff necked rebellion). If we are rebelling as Israel did in the example GIVEN in chapter 3, then we have not enter into HIS Rest (received the Gospel) either. But the writer of Hebrews makes it clear, "For we which have believed do enter into rest. So with that being understood it is not future for all.
Incidentally The "if" is in respect to the rest of the Gospel. The "this again" in verse 5 is in relation to the Seventh Day Sabbath.

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest (the Gospel), any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the Gospel (HIS Rest) preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest (the Gospel), as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest (the Gospel): although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.(Heb 4:1-3 KJV)

Please Notice above that the Gospel was available to Israel since Moses but they did not enter into due to unbelief (obstinate stiff necked rebellion). What is also being said in those text is that the works for the the HIS rest (the Gospel) were finished from the foundation of the World. Which means that any one from the time of dam on had the capability through GOD through HIS Christ to enter into HIS rest; the Gospel.

For HE (GOD) spake in a certain place (the Decalogue) of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this again (the Decalogue), If they shall enter into my rest (receive the Gospel). Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein (the Gospel), and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief (obstinate stiff neck rebellion)

(Heb 4:4-6)

The Gospel is a simple message that can be given on any street corner to any ordinary person. I can't imagine you getting an audience if you preach like that. I suggest you put it in simple language so the ordinary person can understand it. Apart from anything else it is a good discipline.

By the way, how would you summarize the Gospel of Moses?

Studyman · Mar 11, 2018

PS said:

You have exalted yourself as judge of God and His Word instead of humbling yourself to Him and His Word as instructed.

This makes you the same as the Pharisees who also made themselves judge of God's Word, even Killing Him. So given this truth you can not understand Him.

2 Thess. 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

You think that because you aren't a Jew you can transgress God's Commandments by your ancient religious traditions and get away with it? You believe your man made doctrines and traditions are somehow more righteous than the Pharisees who did the exact same thing?

They rejected God's Sabbath and created their own, you do the very same thing. How is it you think you can do this and be accepted, while acknowledging they did the same and were called children of satan and rejected?

It's called a "Delusion".

PS · Mar 11, 2018

Studyman said:

You have exalted yourself as judge of God and His Word instead of humbling yourself to Him and His Word as instructed.

This makes you the same as the Pharisees who also made themselves judge of God's Word, even Killing Him. So given this truth you can not understand Him.

2 Thess. 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

You think that because you aren't a Jew you can transgress God's Commandments by your ancient religious traditions and get away with it? You believe your man made doctrines and traditions are somehow more righteous than the Pharisees who did the exact same thing?

They rejected God's Sabbath and created their own, you do the very same thing. How is it you think you can do this and be accepted, while acknowledging they did the same and were called children of satan and rejected?

It's called a "Delusion".

RED: The accuser is no delusion. He is very real.

Dan_473 · Mar 11, 2018

PS said:

imo, combining the two verses isn't a good thing to do

different words

imo, that would be like wanting to know what Beach means, and using the definition for Sand

*************

posted from my phone, blessings!

posthuman · Mar 11, 2018

PS said:

will He not judge the whole world?

did He not curse and wither the fig tree?

if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.
(John 8:24)

posthuman · Mar 11, 2018

Studyman said:

what exactly is it called when a person boasts about 'keeping sabbath' according to Law but they craftily devise ways to ignore what the Law says regarding it?

is wearing tzitzit a man-made tradition or is it a command from God?
it is written, He commanded that they be sewn onto the corners of garments, immediately after He commanded that a man carrying sticks on sabbath must be stoned to death ((literal, corporeal, physical destruction of the body)) by the hands of the entire congregation. it is written, to look at the tzitzit and remember.

remember: to put to death the man who carries sticks.

do you do the very same thing? according to letter? according to a certain ministration engraved in letters on stone?

PS · Mar 11, 2018

posthuman said:

Let this be a lesson to all. It is actually a figure of Israel standing by itself stranded and alone. The fig tree had leaves but no fruit, not dissimilar to the hypocrisy of the Pharisees who wore fine cloths on the outside but were barren spiritually on the inside and bore no fruit. We would say today the fig tree was not fit for purpose and would get rid of it, and as Jesus said, "if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins." Be warned, but as I keep saying, it is God who has authority over life and death and in Deu 32:39 we read, "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."

This is the true God who, after giving us numerous opportunities to repent, as he did with Pharaoh, will one day stand in judgement over us, but the imposter god, the fake god, needed man to do his dirty work as the Israelites went into Canaan. As Jesus said, "You are of your father the Devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning. (John 8:44).

LoveGodForever · Mar 11, 2018

gb9 said:

Hi gb9,

1 John 3 is indeed talking about God's 10 Commandments. You ignore the CONTEXT of v23 which is talking about SIN which God's Word defines are breaking ANY of God's Commandments (1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; James 2:8-11). Let's look at all the scripture you ignore....

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN, BUT BY THE LAW; FOR I HAD NOT KNOW LUST, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID, YOU SHOULD NOT COVET

James 2
8, If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well:
9, But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

Now God's Word has defined what SIN is (Breaking God's Commandments) Let's look at the CONTEXT of 1 John 3:24.

1 John 3:4 WHOSOEVER COMMITS SIN TRANSGRESSES ALSO THE LAW: FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW

Yep looks like PAUL, JAMES and JOHN all agree that the CONTEXT of 1 John 3:24 is talking about breaking God's Commandments.

Let's continue....

THE CONTEXT of 1 John 3:24 is those who SIN (BREAK GOD'S COMMANDMENTS) and those who do not v3-15....

1 JOHN 3
3, And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whoever COMMITS SIN TRANSGRESSES ALSO THE LAW: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW
5, And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, WHOEVER ABIDES IN HIM SINS NOT: whoever SINS HAS NOT SEEN HIM, NEITHER KNOWS HIM.

Here you have that reference John is talking about earlier repeated in emphasis in 1 John 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if wekeep his commandments. [4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

7, Little children, LET KNOW ONE DECEIVE YOU: he that DOES RIGHTEOUSNESS IS RIGHTEOUS, even as he is righteous.
What is righteousness? PS 119:172 My tongue shall speak of your word: for all your commandments are righteousness.Yep we are definately talking about God's 10 Commandments. SIN is breaking God's Commandments (1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; James 2:8-11; Romans 3:20)and RIGHTESOUNESS is OBEDIENCE to God's Commandments.

8, HE THAT COMMITS SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Seems like John is speaking pretty plain language here. If you are sining (breaking God's Commandments) then you do not know God and you are of the Devil

9, WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Seems John is telling us the reason why Jesus says. Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God (John 3:3).Those who practice SIN will NOT enter into God's KINGDOM

10, IN THIS THE CHILDREN OF GOD ARE MANIFEST AND THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.
IN THIS to SIN or NOT to SIN are the children of God and the Children of the devil manifest;

No need to be in confusion here. God's Word makes it very clear who God's saints are.

Revelation 12: [17], And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14: [12] HERE IS THE PATIENCE OF THE SAINTS: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and the faith of Jesus. Yep if you are still in your SINS you are not on God's side or do you know him.

11, For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12, Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And why slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13, Marvel not, my brothers, if the world hate you.
14, We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brothers. He that loves not his brother stays in death.
15, Whoever hates his brother is a MURDERER: and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

To put it all to rest now, John's now talking about the 6th Commandment of the 10 Commandments. This is the CONTEXT of 1 John 3:23 that you say is NOT talking about God's 10 Commandments. It seems God's Word disagrees with you.

Indeed the CONTEXT is about those who practice SIN (Breaking God's 10 Commandments)

Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN have no REST and will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

MarcR · Mar 11, 2018

PS said:

God has the authority to question our doings and hold us accountable both by right of creation and by right of redemption.

You and I nave NO BASIS to question God's doings or to hold Him accountable [read Job chapters 38-41].

If or when I am able to create my own universe I may consider questioning God; but even then it is probably not a good idea.

gb9 · Mar 11, 2018

LoveGodForever said:

Hi gb9,

1 John 3 is indeed talking about God's 10 Commandments. You ignore the CONTEXT of v23 which is talking about SIN which God's Word defines are breaking ANY of God's Commandments (1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; James 2:8-11). Let's look at all the scripture you ignore....

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN, BUT BY THE LAW; FOR I HAD NOT KNOW LUST, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID, YOU SHOULD NOT COVET

James 2
8, If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well:
9, But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

Now God's Word has defined what SIN is (Breaking God's Commandments) Let's look at the CONTEXT of 1 John 3:24.

1 John 3:4 WHOSOEVER COMMITS SIN TRANSGRESSES ALSO THE LAW: FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW

Yep looks like PAUL, JAMES and JOHN all agree that the CONTEXT of 1 John 3:24 is talking about breaking God's Commandments.

Let's continue....

THE CONTEXT of 1 John 3:24 is those who SIN (BREAK GOD'S COMMANDMENTS) and those who do not v3-15....

1 JOHN 3
3, And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whoever COMMITS SIN TRANSGRESSES ALSO THE LAW: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW
5, And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, WHOEVER ABIDES IN HIM SINS NOT: whoever SINS HAS NOT SEEN HIM, NEITHER KNOWS HIM.

Here you have that reference John is talking about earlier repeated in emphasis in 1 John 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if wekeep his commandments. [4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

7, Little children, LET KNOW ONE DECEIVE YOU: he that DOES RIGHTEOUSNESS IS RIGHTEOUS, even as he is righteous.
What is righteousness? PS 119:172 My tongue shall speak of your word: for all your commandments are righteousness.Yep we are definately talking about God's 10 Commandments. SIN is breaking God's Commandments (1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; James 2:8-11; Romans 3:20)and RIGHTESOUNESS is OBEDIENCE to God's Commandments.

8, HE THAT COMMITS SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Seems like John is speaking pretty plain language here. If you are sining (breaking God's Commandments) then you do not know God and you are of the Devil

9, WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Seems John is telling us the reason why Jesus says. Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God (John 3:3).Those who practice SIN will NOT enter into God's KINGDOM

10, IN THIS THE CHILDREN OF GOD ARE MANIFEST AND THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.
IN THIS to SIN or NOT to SIN are the children of God and the Children of the devil manifest;

No need to be in confusion here. God's Word makes it very clear who God's saints are.

Revelation 12: [17], And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14: [12] HERE IS THE PATIENCE OF THE SAINTS: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and the faith of Jesus. Yep if you are still in your SINS you are not on God's side or do you know him.

11, For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12, Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And why slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13, Marvel not, my brothers, if the world hate you.
14, We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brothers. He that loves not his brother stays in death.
15, Whoever hates his brother is a MURDERER: and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

To put it all to rest now, John's now talking about the 6th Commandment of the 10 Commandments. This is the CONTEXT of 1 John 3:23 that you say is NOT talking about God's 10 Commandments. It seems God's Word disagrees with you.

Indeed the CONTEXT is about those who practice SIN (Breaking God's 10 Commandments)

Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN have no REST and will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

mailman dan went over, in great detail with the greek words, about commands. he was correct. your refusal to accept truth does not nullify truth.

one man wrote this letter. the same man said all of it. so, if the one man was talking about any of the 10, he would have said so. he said what the commands were. Sabbath was not one. truth.

Dan_473 · Mar 11, 2018

posthuman said:

this kind of question I've never gotten a real answer for

why this rule but not this one

the closest thing to an answer I've seen is "your not spiritual enough to understand"

basically an appeal to secret knowledge

*************

posted from my phone, blessings!

Studyman · Mar 11, 2018

posthuman said:

PH,

You are not interested in any answer. You simply want to justify your religious traditions. If you were interested in an answer you would answer my question regarding the flesh and blood of Christ that you must eat and drink in order to be accepted by God unto His Kingdom.

You know now the answer already but you can’t say because this truth exposes your religion as from man and not God. Answer my question, and your questions are answered.

No no one here boasts of honoring God with respect and honor. It is simply our reasonable service. We are just sharing this respect and honor with others who may also be interested in proving what is that perfect Will of God.

LoveGodForever · Mar 11, 2018

Please refer to the earlier post # 6461 regarding the application of NOMOS, ENTOLE and TORAH and post # 6469 on the CONTEXT of 1 John 3:24 above.

Continuing.....

mailmandan said:

Now your whole argument here is in the application of ENTOLE not meaning the 10 Commandments...

Let's now do a Word study on the GREEK word "Entole" in the NEW Testament but keep in mind the importance of APPLICATION and CONTEXRT within scripture and Chapter as posted earlier in earlier post # 6461 and continue on from that post. Think of the earlier post and this as one post....

NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE USING THE WORD "ENTOLE" REFERRING TO GOD'S LAW (10 Commandments)

Let's start with the meaning of the word...

"ENTOLE" GREEK Lexicon and meaning
1. an order, command, charge, precept, injunction a. that which is prescribed to one by reason of his office
2. a commandment a. a prescribed rule in accordance with which a thing is done
a. a precept relating to lineage, of the Mosaic precept concerning the priesthood
b. ethically used of the commandments in the Mosaic law or Jewish tradition

The meaning of ENTOLE is commandments in relation to the one who's office gives it in relation to the Mosaic law (Torah) given by God

"NOMOS" GREEK Lexicon and meaning
1. anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command
a. of any law whatsoever; a law or rule producing a state approved of God
b.by the observance of which is approved of God; a precept or injunction; the rule of action prescribed by reason
c. of the Mosaic law, and referring, acc. to the context. either to the volume of the law or to its contents
d. the Christian religion: the law demanding faith, the moral instruction given by Christ, esp. the precept concerning love
e. the name of the more important part (the Pentateuch), is put for the entire collection of the sacred books of the OT.

The meaning of NOMOS has similar application to ENTOLE but has wider in application and depending on its application can mean any law or command, custom, rule or prescription but has reference to the whole law of God

So according to the meaning of the Greek word and its application and CONTEXT of ENTOLE just like NOMOS in the GREEK and TORAH in the HEBREW will determine the scriptures meaning see earlier post # 6461

So according to the GREEK Word meanings the use of NOMOS or ENTOLE can be used God's 10 Commandments or any other application in reference to God's LAWS. Now let's look at the application.

......................

Now according to your post above you say the GREEK word used in 1 John 3:23 is ENTOLE and because it's a different word to NOMOS then it does not mean God's LAW (10 Commandments) right and because the GREEK word ENTOLE is used
the scripture means Jesus command to love and you apply this to REV 14:12 as well

Now let's see if this idea is correct or not according to God's WORD and the application of ENTOLE is only in reference to Christs command of love....

Matthew 22
36, Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37, Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
38, This is the first and great commandment.
39, And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
40, ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS

Jesus is actually quoting from the OLD Testament scriptures from Deut 6:5 and Lev 19:18 here. Jesus is saying here that GOD'S LAW and LOVE cannot be separated.

Now let's look at other scriptures in the NEW Testament GREEK that use the same word ENTOLE...

Matt. 15.3-6
But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment (entole) of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honor thy father and mother (application God's 10 Commandments): . . .
But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, he shall be free, honors not his father or his mother. Thus have ye made the commandment (entole) of God of none effect by your tradition.

APPLICATION OF ENTOLE TO GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS....

Matt. 19.17-19
And he said unto him if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments (entole) He said unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mark 7.9-10
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment (entole) of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother;

Romans 7
8, But sin, taking occasion by the commandment (entole), worked out in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9, For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment (entole) came, sin revived, and I died.
10, And the commandment (entole), which was ordained to life, I found to be to death.
11, For sin, taking occasion by the commandment (entole), deceived me, and by it slew me.
12, Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment (entole) holy, and just, and good.
13, Was then that which is good made death to me? May it not be! But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment (entole) might become exceedingly sinful.

Romans 13:9 For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there is any other commandment (entole), it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments (entole) contained in ordinances; in order to make in himself of two one new man, so making peace;

Ephesians 6:2 Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment (entole) with promiseHebrews 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept (entole) to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people.

2 Peter 2: 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandments (entole) delivered to them.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments (entole) .

Mark 12:29-30
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments (entole) is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Before Jesus.......

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments (entole) and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

hmm seems that the Chief priests and the Pharasees can even use enole....

John 11:57 Now both the chief priests and the Pharisees had given a commandment (entole), that, if any man knew where he were, he should show it, that they might take him.

and here is one just for you.....

Luke 23:56
. . . rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment. (Entole)

The above is not exhastive but you should get the picture by now with everthing presented that your application of Scripture is not biblical.

Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN have no REST and will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

LoveGodForever · Mar 11, 2018

gb9 said:

Not really his application of ENTOLE and NOMOS is not biblical and does not consider CONTEXT as shown in post # 6461 (linked) and post# 6474 (linked).

If you disagree please respond to the post regarding CONTEXT of 1 John 3:23 in POST # 6469 (linked) and the rebuttal posts to MMD interpretation and use of NOMOS and ENTOLE in post # 6461 (linked) and post# 6474 (linked).

Seems like God's Word disagrees with you both and shows you are believing and teaching another Gospel that is not according to God's Word.

Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW him who calls us in LOVE to LOVE another.

SIN is the transgression or breakin gof God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

gb9 · Mar 11, 2018

LoveGodForever said:

Not really his application of ENTOLE and NOMOS is not biblical and does not consider CONTEXT as shown in post # 6461 (linked) and post# 6474 (linked).

If you disagree please respond to the post regarding CONTEXT of 1 John 3:23 in POST # 6469 (linked) and the rebuttal posts to MMD interpretation and use of NOMOS and ENTOLE in post # 6461 (linked) and post# 6474 (linked).

Seems like God's Word disagrees with you both and shows you are believing and teaching another Gospel that is not according to God's Word.

Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW him who calls us in LOVE to LOVE another.

SIN is the transgression or breakin gof God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

you state that sin is breaking commands, so, which command did the rich man in Luke 16 break to end up in hell? which one?

LoveGodForever · Mar 11, 2018

gb9 said:

Hello gb9,

So, I guess that is a no you cannot answer POST # 6469 (linked) regarding CONTEXT of 1 John 3:23 and the rebuttal posts to MMD interpretation and use of NOMOS and ENTOLE in post # 6461 (linked) and post# 6474 (linked)?

It is ok if you cannot you do not have to reply to those posts if you do not wish to. Maybe you can pray about them at home.

I do not state the SIN is breaking God's Commandments. It is God's Word that says SIN is breaking God's Commandments.

Lets see what God says.......

SIN IS BREAKING GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN, BUT BY THE LAW; FOR I HAD NOT KNOW LUST, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID, YOU SHOULD NOT COVET

James 2
8, If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well:
9, But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

Now God's Word has defined what SIN is (Breaking God's Commandments)

1 John 3:4 WHOSOEVER COMMITS SIN TRANSGRESSES ALSO THE LAW: FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW

Yep looks like PAUL, JAMES and JOHN all agree together that SIN is breaking God's LAW......

.......................

Luke 16:19-31 Is a parable of the rich man and the poor man Lazarus. The clue is at the end of the parable and the beginning.

19, There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20, And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

Lets see....

23, And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and sees Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24, And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25, But Abraham said, Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and you are tormented.
27, Then he said, I pray you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house:
28, For I have five brothers; that he may testify to them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29, Abraham said to him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30, And he said, No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will repent.
31, And he said to him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

In the parable the rich man was breaking God's LAW and the prophets. He did not LOVE and HELP his neighbor. He did not obey the 1st and 2nd Great commandment on which ALL the LAW and the PROPHETS hang

This parable is for all today...

SIN is breaking God's commandments (Romans 7:7; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN have no REST and will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Studyman · Mar 11, 2018

Dan_473 said:

it is the Word of God that says knowledge of His Gospel is given to some, with held from others. It is another doctrine the Bible teaches that is rejected by those who don’t really believe the Word, but use parts of it to justify religious traditions they choose.

posthuman · Mar 11, 2018

Studyman said:

What's the gospel?

((seeing that you are saying that you know it but Dan, Marc, Jackson, mmd and I do not, perhaps you should be evangelizing instead of defaming us))

posthuman · Mar 11, 2018

Studyman said:

Yes Dan, case in point. Our local expert says we are not spiritual so we can't understand it, and he refuses to give a straight answer, preferring instead to attack personally my character.

It is, as you said, difficult.

GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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