Not By Works

dcontroversal · Mar 9, 2018

No point to be made....as long as one worker for or sinless perfectionists Pharisees posts in this thread I will continue to respond and swing the sword in defense of the truth for all who may jump in on this thread......there is one way to be saved eternally.....by faith without any embellishments......!

dcontroversal · Mar 9, 2018

Liz21 said:

Yes indeed.....by faith through grace without any embellishments based upon man

dcontroversal · Mar 9, 2018

star said:

Amen.....Jesus came for, died for, and mediates for those who know they need him.....not the self righteous, sinless perfectionists working for who need to embellish the work of Christ in a feeble attempt to make the proverbial gates of heaven!

Magenta · Mar 9, 2018

benhur said:

You should be more concerned with the lovers of self who use Jesus to justify their hypocrisy.

MattforJesus · Mar 9, 2018

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Jesus told this Church to repent and do the first works that they were lacking or He would remove their candlestick out of his place.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Jesus told this Church that their works were not perfect before God and to repent or He would come upon them as a thief.

So to Jesus works are important enough that if they do not do them then Jesus wants them to repent and do those works,and if not Jesus will go against them.

Lack of works means lack of love,and love is greater than faith,that is why works are important for love is the fulfilling of the law.

Nobody should brag about works but without works they do not have love,and Paul said if He did not have charity,works of love,then he is nothing,and if people do not have charity then they have erred from the faith,and James their faith is dead,and John the love of God does not dwell in them,so do not love in word only but in deed and in truth.

Paul said charity does not think an evil thought,and does not rejoice in iniquity,but rejoices in the truth,and that is to abstain from sin by the Spirit,and only goes by their needs and not their wants,and helps the poor and needy.

The Bible says the Lord knows them that are His having this seal,let everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Lack in the things that are of love then faith lacks,and there is no excuse for people that hold unto things that are not of love.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

This has nothing to do with their works for Jesus did not rebuke them on their works,but He said they did not do the will of the Father because they were workers of iniquity,which means they held unto sin thinking they were alright with God and it did not affect their relationship with God despite the Spirit be given to who wants to be led of the Spirit.

Jesus was not against their works for He addressed 2 Churches and said to do works,but He was against them because they held unto sin thinking they were right with God and they were trying to weasel out of the situation that they held unto sin by saying but we labored for the kingdom of God so does that not put us in a good standing with God.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Some people have a form of godliness but they deny the Spirit leading them because they want to hold unto some things of the flesh,and never came to the truth that they have to allow the Spirit to lead them and abstain from sin,and were lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God,which means they enjoyed alcohol,and drugs,and worldly entertainment,and money,and material things for their wants,and being sexually immoral.

dcontroversal · Mar 9, 2018

Magenta said:

Amen to that......funny how things work out hey.....jump the ones actually defending truth and defend those who are no where near being correct....another thing....some are oblivious to what this thread is about and or it's scope...

LightLoveHope · Mar 9, 2018

Magenta said:

I am being accused of loving myself and using Jesus to justify my hypocrisy.

There is some truth about this. Jesus loves us, and part of walking in purity, holiness
and righteousness is loving yourself, respecting who one is, and respecting others above
oneself. It is not hatred of our humanity, but recognizing what God has created in us,
and encouraging others to walk in the ways of Jesus.

Is it hypocrisy to believe Jesus has cleansed, purified and made us Holy?
Now what you have to begin to realize is sin continually in peoples lives leads them to
hate who they are, and never ever feel God could accept them, even washed clean by
the blood of the lamb. It is a wretched place to be, to have no self worth, and believe
all you are should be rejected and trampled on.

Now this inverted view of Gods grace of course means if you believe what Jesus is saying,
we are worth dying for, must mean we are liars, hypocrites who are claiming self above
Christ. In their view all the complements of Gods people status, is actually just Jesus
and not the believer at all. It is true it is Jesus in the believer demonstrating the impossible
work He has performed in the believer, but these lost souls do not believe this is possible.

It takes some time to unpick the distortions and world view they have, but it makes sense
when you live with sin and failure everyday, and always seeing Jesus as a distant impossible
objective, to which one cannot relate at any level. But this is actually just unbelief and no
faith or connection with our Lord.

So for me to say I know Christ, and "For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain."
Now this is following the example of Paul, but to say this is too much for people who have
such a low view of what they are in Jesus and what God has made them into.

Dear Lord Jesus,
Help these people to see the great value you place on who they are, that you chose to
die for them, to set them free from sin and death, so that we might commune with you
and know your life and love flowing through us. It is such a tragedy that being caught in
a world that hates people and abuses them, that your love can be so miss-understood, and
they think you equally are not here to heal and make them new.
Thank you Lord that you heal the broken hearted, comfort those who mourn, satisfy those
who hunger and thirst for your ways, and show yourself to the pure in heart.
Praise your Name for your grace and forgiveness of us, as we sinners always need you
forgiveness and cleansing, Amen.

Ariel82 · Mar 9, 2018

dcontroversal said:

Ahh but you don't expect different results, so that isn't the point I was making.

LightLoveHope · Mar 9, 2018

Emotional views

Truth is a strange thing when you start talking about what people value and what they hate.
The same things can be spoken by different groups, but the meaning, what is more important
over what is less important can be total opposites, so what it means becomes very different.

So for one person to be alone, can be peace, solitude, a time of contemplation to recharge and
get ready to engage with others, but of another person, loneliness, isolation rejection and loss
of contact which they desperately desire, and without some connection are totally distraught.

It makes knowing the creator of the world difficult to grasp, and His disciples, and why it takes
so long to see the eternal truths held within His word. So for some my words are just philosophy
and empty, and for others the essence of the King of Kings. You cannot change these realities,
they are part of our walk in Jesus or not, but with an open heart, a desire to humble oneself
there is always hope. But without knowing Gods will and walking in it, salvation is none existent.

When I begin to see what God is giving us and calling us to, I see why it is such a narrow path.
Nothing can be forced it is all learnt and followed. And until you arrive, it is very unclear as to
why, but the clearer it becomes, the more you desire to walk deeper, Amen.

Magenta · Mar 9, 2018

LightLoveHope said:

I did not name you specifically. But you know what they say:

If the shoe fits, wear it

dcontroversal · Mar 9, 2018

Ariel82 said:

Not entirely true...I have had a few behind the scenes message me and they have changed their position based upon my incessant defense of saved by faith through grace with no strings attached or hoops to jump through like the workers for and sinless perfectionists push

LightLoveHope · Mar 9, 2018

dcontroversal said:

Here is a member who actually believes he is achieving something of value.
But if one is blind to the realities of spiritual truth and growth, labeling complex situations with
a simple paint brush, nothing changes for them, or the lies and distortions they follow.

It is a failing to believe once stuck in this rut, their view has any substance, other than imprisoning
them to staying as they are until judgment day. Now that should be warning enough, with the
abounding sin and failure innate in their daily life, but rather it confirms to them, everyone else must
be the same, and those denying being in this trap, are just liars and hypocrites. It is the same logic
followed by conspiracy theorists, disagree with them and you are part of the conspiracy.

Once one knows this level of total disengagement it is very liberating, because one can see the
bars of the prison which imprison them, which they can never leave.

Grace and peace to you in Christ Jesus our Lord, Amen.

Ariel82 · Mar 9, 2018

Even at times of solitude from the world, i am never alone because God is always with me.

What I don't understand is the constant striving of some for acceptance and their anger when their words aren't take to be gospel truth?

This is a thread about faith in God and how it alone saves.

Why the lack of understanding?

Agape love is that God reached out and saved us even while we were sinners.

Agape love is given into our hearts that we then can give to others.

Works do not save...it is because we are saved and have God's love that we are able to love and do good works for His glory.

Motive matters. Without the Holy spirit leading, our actions are futile and are just filthy rags.

Ariel82 · Mar 9, 2018

dcontroversal said:

Then it isnt all fruitless. I know our young grasshopper learnt something from it all.

LightLoveHope · Mar 9, 2018

Magenta said:

Greetings Magenta,

You will not understand this, but others will. Innate within your emotional position is
condemnation, or rejection of certain emotional realities, as if they are evil, and accepting
others which are evil as if they are good.

It is helpful to me to realize I am not here to agree with you, or even defend anything, but
to see how subtle these traps are laid in your heart, blinding you from the obvious poor self
worth you have, and denial of Gods potential work within you. But now I see what you are
doing, I thank you for sharing, though you can do no other, because it helps me understand
where you are, and why at present I may be unable to help.

Grace and peace to you in Christ Jesus our Lord, Amen.

ElAmor · Mar 9, 2018

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

I rarely respond to your rigmarole......

Who went away justified...?

The dude who beat on his chest seeking mercy for being a sinner

Or the dude like you that boasted of his righteousness while thanking God he was not like the sinner....

originally posted by star

Amen for the sinner. Amen for this post.

Like

Magenta likes this.

"To err is human; to forgive divine."

star said:

ElAmor

Do you promote sinning or is it just that you are still a sinner claiming to be eternally saved by your FAITH WITHOUT WORKS, Faith ALONE saves, man-made doctrine? If YES, remember “GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED"

Galatians 6:7-8 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

Romans 16:17-20 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. Everyone has heard about your OBEDIENCE, so I am full of joy over you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil. The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

1 Corinthians 13:2,13 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

1 John 4:8,16 Whoever does not love does not know God, because GOD IS LOVE. And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. GOD IS LOVE. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.

originally posted by dcontroversial

No controversy. For the past 200 years the translators have leaned towards 'by grace, not of works' sentiments. How can 'charity' be greater than 'faith'? How can even 'love' be greater than 'faith'? Don't you have to have 'faith' before you can 'love'?

ElAmor

Rejecting Scriptures that do not fit and go against your FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE is rejection and trampling under foot of God’s WORD which is the SPIRIT ( john 1:1-3 & 14, 6:63, hebrews 10:26-29, 2 timothy 3:16-17, mark 7:6-13)

Matthew 12:31-37 And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the son of man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. YOU BROOD OF VIPERS, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and BY YOUR WORDS YOU WILL BE CONDEMNED”

Apostle James words;

... As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

... should be received as God’s own words since they were inspired and led by the Holy Spirit and therefore wrote what they have heard and understood from Christs teachings.

Our Lord Jesus said;

“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?(luke 6:46)

...Who are the ones calling Jesus as their Lord and yet do not do what He says? Are they not those who CLAIM to have Faith but one which is DEAD.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

...So what did Jesus say to them?

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

...And what would he say to them who have FAITH WITHOUT WORKS which is a DEAD FAITH that cannot save?

Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE IN THE SIGHT OF MY GOD. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; OBEY IT AND REPENT. But IF YOU DO NOT WAKE UP, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

...BECAUSE...

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you EVILDOERS.’

...And why are they called EVILDOERS?

1 John 2:3-4 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:4-10 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

dcontroversal · Mar 9, 2018

LightLoveHope said:

Greetings Magenta,

You will not understand this, but others will. Innate within your emotional position is
condemnation, or rejection of certain emotional realities, as if they are evil, and accepting
others which are evil as if they are good.

It is helpful to me to realize I am not here to agree with you, or even defend anything, but
to see how subtle these traps are laid in your heart, blinding you from the obvious poor self
worth you have, and denial of Gods potential work within you. But now I see what you are
doing, I thank you for sharing, though you can do no other, because it helps me understand
where you are, and why at present I may be unable to help.

Grace and peace to you in Christ Jesus our Lord, Amen.

I am fairly confident that she does not need the help of a working for, sinless perfectionist that is not who they claim to be.......like 99.99999999999999999% sure

Ariel82 · Mar 9, 2018

dcontroversal said:

Nah she doesn't need a passive agressive person offfering poisoned words of condemnation.

I hope she knows she is a beloved daughter of God and I personally rejoice to call her a sister in Christ.

Low self worth....that must be the plank talking...

dcontroversal · Mar 9, 2018

Thank God for salvation that is given as a free gift based upon faith through grace with no strings attached or hoops to jump through like the dog and pony shows put on by men and religion!!

LightLoveHope · Mar 9, 2018

Ariel82 said:

You have a very simple view of faith, expressed in your words.
When everything is so inter-connected, a statement works do not save, in part maybe true, and in part
maybe a lie.

Can you grasp that words will always summarise realities, but never fully encompass them.
So it maybe less about being absolute in our walk with Jesus than letting the words dwell
in us, and we will slowly see the whole picture.

As people we like granular, simple yes no answers, even when it is impossible.
Take a simple idea. How old am I? To the year, month, day, hour, second?
From where do you measure it, conception, birth? What about maturity, or
skills, or emotional intelligence? And this is about a simple passage of time
and development. Just go one step on, and talk about how we enter the Kingdom,
and what is the Kingdom. No wonder it is a difficult subject with many aspects.

But it is foolish for people to claim they can define such a thing in a few lines,
when they know even a declaration of faith of a church is easily a few pages long.

But this is why this thread is actually about those who want definitive answers to
a question God declares is only definitive on judgement day. If Gods will is not to
be definitive but to walk in obedience and learn, that is all we need to do.

Not By Works

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