Not By Works

[Ariel82]

not the bible, but still hoping yall get the point anyway...

 

[Liz21]

Amen. That's right.

 

[star]

I rarely respond to your rigmarole......

Who went away justified...?

The dude who beat on his chest seeking mercy for being a sinner

Or the dude like you that boasted of his righteousness while thanking God he was not like the sinner....

Amen for the sinner. Amen for this post.

 

[dcontroversal]

Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector.
I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'
"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'
"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
Luke 18:10-14

The difference between these two people was the tax collect recognized he needed Gods
mercy while the Pharisee thought he was ok.

Now free gracers follow a strange double path. They recognize they need Christ on the
cross to gain forgiveness of sins, at a distance, but not that they then need to walk in Jesus's
ways with a clean heart. They believe even though they choose to sin, it is already forgiven,
so do not need to feel sorrow, seek repentance, confession or re-establishing their walk with the
Lord. They will say they are sinners, unworthy, but refuse to do anything about it.

Those in the Kingdom are always in need of God, and have everything by the grace of God.
They are nothing in themselves but everything in Christs love flowing through them. Their pure
and holy walk is a blessing, a light in a dark world. A man is all that Christs makes Him, and all
that is built is only on who Christ is.

Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.
1 Timothy 4:16

The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk.
They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
1 Timothy 1:5-7

Now if peoples foundation is an impure heart, a bad conscience and an insincere faith,
it is impossible to take what they share to have any authority at all.

Go through this thread and find who is sharing about obtaining a pure heart from Christ
purified and made whole, and then how to walk in Jesus's ways. If you read scripture
with purity in your heart you will see Pauls encouragements. If you are impure you will find
it hard and miss all the phrases that show what you need to be.

The bible is a book of words, its power is when it dwells in peoples hearts and mind.

Just take one phrase, "you will save both yourself and your hearers."

Paul is saying only through persevering in the faith, keeping right doctrine will we be
saved. But ignore the word persever, and you will miss it all.

Just say teach correctly once, believe once, and you are sealed. So believing this
you will just not see the word, and go on as if one has certainty, which Paul is not
giving, at all.

The above proves how dishonest you really are.....which we all already know......this thread is about salvation and how it is obtained and to be frank....your whole scam of who you are, your sinless perfectionists garbage and you continual twist on what we say or believe while refusing to answer simple base questions proves you leads you and the Spirit of God is not it........!

 

[dcontroversal]

Paul did not think highly of himself. you sure do. give all glory to Jesus, none to yourself.

We all know who he really is......same verbiage, same phrases, same style, same dogma, same sinless perfectionists garbage...

 

[benhur]

You seem to think that there is a big conspiracy here, but that is not so.
The English word "charity" has changed in meaning over several hundred years, in the same way that many other English words have.
Have you used or seen the use of the word "gay" recently in its meaning from a hundred years ago i.e. happy and carefree?
No, I didn't think so!
Several centuries ago the primary meaning of "charity" was actually love.
However the current meaning of "charity" is usually just to give money to a good cause. It is supposed to be on the basis of love but, literally, that aspect is largely lost in the modern language. Bluntly put, most charitable donations nowadays are done to get a tax break!

The primary meaning of "charity" three or four hundred years was indeed love. Yes, it may have had a practical outworking in the same way that the love that God had for us had a practical outworking in Jesus suffering and sacrifice on the cross. Love is never just an airy fairy sentiment, it should always have a practical outworking.

Nevertheless, with the current state of English, "charity" is a poor word to convey the meaning of the Greek word, ἀγάπη (agápē), which was originally translated "charity", means love, and unconditional love at that.
So it is absolutely and entirely appropriate for modern translations to elect to use "love" instead of "charity" in current translations.

No controversy. For the past 200 years the translators have leaned towards 'by grace, not of works' sentiments. How can 'charity' be greater than 'faith'? How can even 'love' be greater than 'faith'? Don't you have to have 'faith' before you can 'love'?

 

[dcontroversal]

I'm not accusing anyone. simply saying that no one is or could ever be sinless and righteous enough on our own to get to Heavenis a universal fact. that is why we need Christ and his imputed righteousness ( the neat little trick ).

do not confuse justification with sanctification. one is given in a moment. one is a ongoing process.

Amen justified by faith without works, sanctified positionally in Christ eternally and our daily life requires the sanctification that comes by the transformational process described in Romans 12:1-2......workers for and sinless perfectionists cannot grasp this concept!

 

[Magenta]

Have you used or seen the use of the word "gay" recently in its meaning from a hundred years ago i.e. happy and carefree?
No, I didn't think so!

Yes, actually, I have

I also use unicorns and rainbows in my graphic creations.

The homosexual agenda is not allowed to steal these things from me

​

 

[dcontroversal]

if you use context ( something you legalist deceivers refuse to do ) . in 1st Peter 1 ( the first words of the letter you just snipped one piece of ) , Peter writes - " to those who through the righteousness of God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours "

so there you go. seems Peter gives Jesus all the glory.

Amen....he, like MANY, WILL MAKE the plenteous in number grouping that fully expect to make the "proverbial gates of heaven" because he will boast of his wonderous works in the name of Jesus before the Throne and all of his religious acts and how righteous he has been......LORD, LORD HAVE WE NOT DONE............! <---BLAH BLAH

 

[benhur]

We all know who he really is......same verbiage, same phrases, same style, same dogma, same sinless perfectionists garbage...

As a mature Christian you should not call other people's bible based Christian beliefs, garbage.

 

[dcontroversal]

You are lying again. You specifically accused me of not being like Paul, pointing to Jesus
when this is what I do all the time.

Again I say Jesus is the one through whom we gain eternal life and redemption.
So how am I saying I can be sinless and righteous enough to be saved.
This is such foolishness and blindness.

We are called, cleansed and made whole, pure, righteous, holy.
You do not believe we are cleansed at all, just fake cleansed.
Fake cleansing is a fake faith, with fake results and hypocritical lives.

Your unbelief is your undoing and will steal the gospel from working in your
heart. So many people know the words, but their hearts are so hard, it
just bounces off, without taking root.

Gods word shows where we are so we can actually do something about it.
Repentance is active, it shows itself in changed actions and recognising what
it means to care, to feel, to empathize, to reach out and see God make people
whole.

Kind of like a false pretense of who one is........verbiage, mannerisms, statements always belie who one really is!!

 

[dcontroversal]

As a mature Christian you should not call other people's bible based Christian beliefs, garbage.

You should read the bible....the men God inspired constantly hammered false dogma and had names for it....for being a supposed mature believer you are sure easily offended

 

[benhur]

Amen....he, like MANY, WILL MAKE the plenteous in number grouping that fully expect to make the "proverbial gates of heaven" because he will boast of his wonderous works in the name of Jesus before the Throne and all of his religious acts and how righteous he has been......LORD, LORD HAVE WE NOT DONE............! <---BLAH BLAH

Again, you are mocking another Christian and what he believes. BTW, I have not heard one that believes faith and works are important boast of themselves. But I have heard those that believe in faith only try to attach boasting to their words.

We who believe that faith and works are important do not boast as you say. We have our faith, and we do our works out of love for the Savior, to try to be more like him, and it is for his glory that we have faith and work.

 

[graceNpeace]

No controversy. For the past 200 years the translators have leaned towards 'by grace, not of works' sentiments. How can 'charity' be greater than 'faith'? How can even 'love' be greater than 'faith'? Don't you have to have 'faith' before you can 'love'?

Until you can accept that it is actually written that way (in the original Koine) then you cannot answer the question.
Are you suggesting that the original author was wrong?

 

[Magenta]

Kind of like a false pretense of who one is........verbiage, mannerisms, statements always belie who one really is!!

I had to laugh when I saw his post about not having a plank nor even a speck in his eye. Claiming all he does is quote Scripture, when it is rarely given in his ridiculous posts full of self serving pseudo-philosophic ramblings. Now here he is again saying he points to Jesus all the time! Wow. I see him pointing much more often at his own self, and at others, crowing about how glad he is not like them.

 

[dcontroversal]

This is a new idea. If I love someone, and then respond in love this is of no value.
But if Gods love motivates me to love, then that has value.

I did not know there were two totally different types of love.

This has to be the biggest load of junk ever. God is love, and all love is a reflection
of the love He put within creation, which is part of the whole creative act.

The problem with the world, is it does not recognize all love has its source in God
and His grace to everything.

It is why without communion with God, love dies within us, and gets overwhelmed
by bitterness, hatred, envy, jealousy, greed, selfishness.

Jesus describes this reality as we as members of the Kingdom of God are plugged
into the vine, as a branch with His love flowing through us. We think it is our love,
but that is because we are part of the vine. Break off from the vine, and our love
dies along with us.

For some strange reason, love in the world has to be turned evil, and only God,
has love, in some distant way, and we are impure and polluted incapable of showing
His love to anyone properly. Except as purified, cleansed redeemed children of God,
through the cross we truly know what Gods love is, and it is very much alive in everything
we do, because we are plugged into the creator. All our love has its source in Him, there
is no such thing as love from self, this is just a lie of the enemy, to condemn people, rather
than declare the great work He has done in us. Amen.

Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
You are my friends if you do what I command.
John 15:13-14

Maybe start studying the bible for once...start with the discourse between Jesus and Peter concering love...then open your eyes to Philo and Agape................!

 

[benhur]

You should read the bible....the men God inspired constantly hammered false dogma and had names for it....for being a supposed mature believer you are sure easily offended

I am not offended, I was more concerned with your image as a Christian who loves Jesus.

 

[dcontroversal]

Again, you are mocking another Christian and what he believes. BTW, I have not heard one that believes faith and works are important boast of themselves. But I have heard those that believe in faith only try to attach boasting to their words.

We who believe that faith and works are important do not boast as you say. We have our faith, and we do our works out of love for the Savior, to try to be more like him, and it is for his glory that we have faith and work.

Address me when you have the facts.....until then....nothing but hot air!

 

[dcontroversal]

I am not offended, I was more concerned with your image as a Christian who loves Jesus.

Worry about yourself and your eternal state which according to your doctrine is in question <---salvation embellished beyond faith for is dangerous ground

 

[dcontroversal]

I had to laugh when I saw his post about not having a plank nor even a speck in his eye. Claiming all he does is quote Scripture, when it is rarely given in his ridiculous posts full of self serving pseudo-philosophic ramblings. Now here he is again saying he points to Jesus all the time! Wow. I see him pointing much more often at his own self, and at others, crowing about how glad he is not like them.

I know.....hilariously tragic