Baptism: is it required to be baptized in water?

[apostolic862004]

No, It proves you did not read Or understand what I was saying.

IF baptism was required, it would happen in ALL CASES.. the fact that it did not PROVES it was not required.

You are right that if baptism was required it would happen in all cases. You are wrong that it did NOT happen in all cases. Find one case AFTER Jesus Christ was resurrected (which would be from Acts to Revelation) where someone received the Holy Ghost but did NOT get baptized.

To clarify, the reason I said AFTER Christ was resurrected is because before Jesus died, baptism was not required for salvation. Only repentance and faith in Jesus Christ was required. This was the message of John the Baptist, and this is also why the thief on the cross was saved without being baptized. But once Christ died and resurrected, the new covenant took effect, and baptism in the name of Jesus became a requirement for salvation. This is why in Acts 19:1-4 Paul re-baptized the disciples that had already been baptized unto John's baptism. John's baptism was no longer valid.

Romans 6:4 and Colossians 2:12 tell us that we are buried with Christ by baptism. How could people be buried with him before he had been buried himself? They couldn't so this was not a requirement for salvation. The New Testament, or the New Covenant, could not go into effect until Jesus Christ died. (Hebrews 9:15-17)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are right that if baptism was required it would happen in all cases. You are wrong that it did NOT happen in all cases. Find one case AFTER Jesus Christ was resurrected (which would be from Acts to Revelation) where someone received the Holy Ghost but did NOT get baptized.

To clarify, the reason I said AFTER Christ was resurrected is because before Jesus died, baptism was not required for salvation. Only repentance and faith in Jesus Christ was required. This was the message of John the Baptist, and this is also why the thief on the cross was saved without being baptized. But once Christ died and resurrected, the new covenant took effect, and baptism in the name of Jesus became a requirement for salvation. This is why in Acts 19:1-4 Paul re-baptized the disciples that had already been baptized unto John's baptism. John's baptism was no longer valid.

I already did, in acts 10, where they were baptised BY GOD before they were bpatised IN WATER (notice, a huge difference) (again, if baptism was REQUIRED, then it would be recieved AFTER, not BEFORE one is baptised.

Romans 6:4 and Colossians 2:12 tell us that we are buried with Christ by baptism. How could people be buried with him before he had been buried himself? They couldn't so this was not a requirement for salvation. The New Testament, or the New Covenant, could not go into effect until Jesus Christ died. (Hebrews 9:15-17)

Rom 6 and col 2 are not water baptism, they are God baptising us into those things. While I agree, No one was baptised before Christ died. That does not prove water baptism is required, because neither of those 2 things speak of water baptism.


Think for a minute, If what you says is true (when we see the word baptise, it always means water) then we could insert the word “baptise inb water” every time we see the word baptise.

So tell me,

Rom 6 says we were baptised into Christ death. Using your defenition, it is literally saying, we were “baptised in water” in his death.

really? Sometimes if we just sit for a minutem, and think about what we are saying we will realise how what we think makes no sense.

 

[notuptome]

No one has answered my question yet. Those of you who claim that you receive the Holy Ghost the moment you believe, please explain the below passage of scripture:

Acts 8:12-17

12But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

These people believed on Jesus Christ and got baptized but they still did not have the Holy Ghost. Not only that, but Simon SAW when they got it. What exactly did Simon see that indicated they had received the Holy Ghost?

Your assessment of this passage is incorrect. What these people lacked was a filling of the Holy Spirit with power to minister the word of God.

When the Jews in Jerusalem came to investigate the conversions the Holy Spirit made Himself evident through gifts of the Holy Spirit. They spoke in tongues and they performed miracles. Simon wanted this power so he could make some financial gain off of it and was rebuked by the apostles.

There are many today who seek to minister only for the financial gain they perceive to be available.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[preston39]

Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He says that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you),


Peter was drawing a distinction with the OT vs the NT. In the OT baptism was used for physical outside body cleansing. Whereas, under the NT it is for sin cleansing.....

But an appeal to God for a good conscience," through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

We could paraphrase Peter's statement by saying, "Baptism now saves you--not the outward physical ceremony of baptism but the inward spiritual reality which baptism represents." By saying, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," Peter guards against saving power to the physical ceremony itself.

*BTY 1 Peter 3:20 does not teach that Noah and his family were literally saved "by" the water (See Hebrews 11:7), but were saved "through" water -- brought safely through the water (ASV; NIV; NKJV: NASB; ESV).

*See Acts 10:43 - "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins." 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. (BEFORE WATER BAPTISM) Then Peter answered, 47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"

I've done more than take a peek. I was raised in the Roman Catholic church and was beat over the head with the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration for years. *Once you come to believe in the name of the Son of God and know that you have eternal life (1 John 5:13) there is no more peeking or second guessing whether or not Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not based on the merits of our works (Romans 3:24-28; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..). Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. Will you ever have the courage to just take a peek behind your "water and works" regeneration theology? Just a peek?

m...,

What is bothersome is, even if there was a smithering of suggestion in scriptures that baptism was not required (there is not) why is there so much effort to wail against baptism by the new age religion group?

It makes no sense other than a major deception from the anti-righteous side.

 

[apostolic862004]

Your assessment of this passage is incorrect. What these people lacked was a filling of the Holy Spirit with power to minister the word of God.

Sorry, you inserted your own interpretation there. That is NOT what the scripture says. The scripture says they didn't have the Holy Ghost. It didn't say they had the Holy Ghost but they didn't have power. In fact, that would contradict what Jesus said would happen when you get the Holy Ghost.

Acts 1:8 - But ye shall receive power after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you......

I understand that you don't want to admit that you do not immediately receive the Holy Ghost just because you believe in Jesus Christ, but please don't add to the scriptures to make them say things they do not say.

 

[DJ2]

Personally, I'm trending towards tapioca but that's just me. I'm not gonna obey it but I will eat it.

And there in lies the difference. Your sensibilities overrules.

 

[notuptome]

Sorry, you inserted your own interpretation there. That is NOT what the scripture says. The scripture says they didn't have the Holy Ghost. It didn't say they had the Holy Ghost but they didn't have power. In fact, that would contradict what Jesus said would happen when you get the Holy Ghost.

Acts 1:8 - But ye shall receive power after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you......

I understand that you don't want to admit that you do not immediately receive the Holy Ghost just because you believe in Jesus Christ, but please don't add to the scriptures to make them say things they do not say.

You must be living in apostateville. If you experience does not align with scripture you need a new experience. The Holy Spirit enters a person the moment they believe and receive Christ as Savior. Titus 3:5

Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit on those in the upper room before the filling of Pentecost. John 20 before Acts 1:8.


For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[mailmandan]

m...,

What is bothersome is, even if there was a smithering of suggestion in scriptures that baptism was not required (there is not) why is there so much effort to wail against baptism by the new age religion group?

It makes no sense other than a major deception from the anti-righteous side.

Plain ordinary H20 has no power to cleanse us from our sins, but the blood of Christ does (Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14; 1 John 1:7; Revelation 1:5). The forgiveness of sins is SIGNIFIED, yet not procured in water baptism. Period.

 

[mailmandan]

m...,

What is bothersome is, even if there was a smithering of suggestion in scriptures that baptism was not required (there is not)

Then show me just ONE verse in the Bible that says, "whoever is not water baptized will not be saved."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Dem]

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Dem]

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[mailmandan]

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 16:30 - And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

*In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - (which is a spiritual gift that is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

So the only logical conclusion *when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture* is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

 

[mailmandan]

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

Now answer my questions in post #569.

 

[Dem]

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[mailmandan]

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Dem]

I go by what I see in the word and two things are evident repentance and baptism. for salvation it is all through the book of acts after they came to believe they were baptized if it were not important the Lord would not have of commanded it. Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

 

[Dem]

AMEN BRO Jesus himself was baptized

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The jews would be happy at all these peopel who made the same mistake they are (only they added circumcision) I am sure they used prety much the same arguments.

Sadly, these people will get a suprise one day. And not a good one.

 

[Socreta93]

https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-baptism.html

 

[preston39]

Plain ordinary H20 has no power to cleanse us from our sins, but the blood of Christ does (Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14; 1 John 1:7; Revelation 1:5). The forgiveness of sins is SIGNIFIED, yet not procured in water baptism. Period.

m....,

You are disagreeing with G-d's commandments...not me. Be convinced in your own mind ...as The Bible says. G-d charges you and I with that challenge.