KING JAMES VERSION BIBLE VS. MODERN ENGLISH BIBLES
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Whether you have eyes to see or ears to hear this, but here is God talking about his beginning of existence. Some will twist this to fit their way. ISAIAH;43; 10; YE ARE MY WITNESSES ,SAITH THE LORD,AND MY SERVANT WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN; THAT YE MAY KNOW AND BELIEVE ME,AND UNDERSTAND THAT I AM HE; BEFORE ME THERE WAS NO GOD FORMED,NEITHER SHALL THERE BE AFTER ME.11; I, EVEN I AM THE LORD, AND BESIDE ME THERE IS NO SAVIOUR............................................God is telling you that there has been no other God formed as he was formed, before or after.
Orthodox Christian belief does not believe that either.
Jesus Christ is not a created being.
However, His being proceeds from the essence of the Father.
Given that the Father is God and therefore eternal, it follows that Jesus Christ is likewise God and also eternal.
Jesus Christ is clearly a separate being from the Father, yet identical in essence.
The same could also be said of the Holy Spirit.
Thus the doctrine of the Trinity clearly identifies three beings in the Godhead yet identical in essence and unity of purpose.
Many find this kind of description difficult to follow and reject it because they cannot "understand" it.
However, this is worth pondering: If everything about God was fully understandable by man then either God is not God, or, man is God!
Neither of these two possibilities make any sense though...
The Bible tells us that full understanding will only occur once we are residents of Heaven.
There are a multitude of resources on the net and elsewhere for those who wish to delve into the actual Scriptural details that underpin this doctrine. (And I would encourage this since the descriptions given will undoubtably be better than my off-the-cuff characterisation given above.)
This purpose of this particular post is just to underline the fact that the doctrine of the Trinity is integral to what makes Christianity Christian. Those groups or individuals who abandon this doctrine invariably end up denying several of the other fundamental doctrines of Christianity and end up creating another religion, either corporately or individually, that is not Christian. The fact that they may read the Bible becomes irrelevant...
Jesus Christ is not a created being.
However, His being proceeds from the essence of the Father.
Given that the Father is God and therefore eternal, it follows that Jesus Christ is likewise God and also eternal.
Jesus Christ is clearly a separate being from the Father, yet identical in essence.
The same could also be said of the Holy Spirit.
Thus the doctrine of the Trinity clearly identifies three beings in the Godhead yet identical in essence and unity of purpose.
Many find this kind of description difficult to follow and reject it because they cannot "understand" it.
However, this is worth pondering: If everything about God was fully understandable by man then either God is not God, or, man is God!
Neither of these two possibilities make any sense though...
The Bible tells us that full understanding will only occur once we are residents of Heaven.
There are a multitude of resources on the net and elsewhere for those who wish to delve into the actual Scriptural details that underpin this doctrine. (And I would encourage this since the descriptions given will undoubtably be better than my off-the-cuff characterisation given above.)
This purpose of this particular post is just to underline the fact that the doctrine of the Trinity is integral to what makes Christianity Christian. Those groups or individuals who abandon this doctrine invariably end up denying several of the other fundamental doctrines of Christianity and end up creating another religion, either corporately or individually, that is not Christian. The fact that they may read the Bible becomes irrelevant...
We have debated the meaning of the word "begotten" with you before.
Unfortunately you reject the meaning of the word in the original language (Greek) and therefore impose your own meaning.
Your assumption is that your understanding of the English word trumps the meaning of the original Greek word when in actual fact it should be the other way around.
And the sad result is your incredible admission, right now, that you believe that the Jesus Christ that walked the earth 2000 years ago is not the same eternal Jesus Christ currently seated at the right hand of the Father!
Unfortunately you reject the meaning of the word in the original language (Greek) and therefore impose your own meaning.
Your assumption is that your understanding of the English word trumps the meaning of the original Greek word when in actual fact it should be the other way around.
And the sad result is your incredible admission, right now, that you believe that the Jesus Christ that walked the earth 2000 years ago is not the same eternal Jesus Christ currently seated at the right hand of the Father!
To emphasise:
The word translated "begotten", in the KJV at least, from the Greek monogenēs (μονογενὴς) means something that is unique, one of a kind.
It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with being created or to be born.
The fact that the English word begotten currently means to bring into existence by reproductive means is absolutely irrelevant.
The fact that the KJV often, when using the word "begotten" in reference to Jesus Christ, actually uses it as part of a phrase "only begotten".
That is a less than subtle clue to the meaning of the word in Greek since it is really a duplication of meaning i.e "only unique".
Obviously, if something is the "only" thing of its kind, then, by definition, it is unique...
The word translated "begotten", in the KJV at least, from the Greek monogenēs (μονογενὴς) means something that is unique, one of a kind.
It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with being created or to be born.
The fact that the English word begotten currently means to bring into existence by reproductive means is absolutely irrelevant.
The fact that the KJV often, when using the word "begotten" in reference to Jesus Christ, actually uses it as part of a phrase "only begotten".
That is a less than subtle clue to the meaning of the word in Greek since it is really a duplication of meaning i.e "only unique".
Obviously, if something is the "only" thing of its kind, then, by definition, it is unique...
Take this advice from my previous post: There are a multitude of resources on the net and elsewhere for those who wish to delve into the actual Scriptural details that underpin this doctrine. (And I would encourage this since the descriptions given will undoubtably be better than my off-the-cuff characterisation given above.)
You are the one who has made the totally unsubstantiatable statement:"I believe that the earthly body of Jesus Christ was begotting by God and NOT the eternal Jesus Christ."
The reason that you are saying such silly things is because you have misinterpreted the meaning of several Scriptures containing the word "begotten".
And you refuse to recognise this fact.
Over and over, you are quoting KJV text, the context of which you seem not to understand, yet claim that YOUR understanding of the KJV text is correct, and somehow proves that everyone else is wrong and certainly every other translation is wrong, simply because the wording of those other translations may differ.
God alone knows, certainly I do not, exactly who you believe Jesus Christ to be given the extraordinary statement you made.
Somehow the Jesus Christ that walked on this earth is apparently not the Jesus Christ of eternity...
This is something that you need to address!
The reason that you are saying such silly things is because you have misinterpreted the meaning of several Scriptures containing the word "begotten".
And you refuse to recognise this fact.
Over and over, you are quoting KJV text, the context of which you seem not to understand, yet claim that YOUR understanding of the KJV text is correct, and somehow proves that everyone else is wrong and certainly every other translation is wrong, simply because the wording of those other translations may differ.
God alone knows, certainly I do not, exactly who you believe Jesus Christ to be given the extraordinary statement you made.
Somehow the Jesus Christ that walked on this earth is apparently not the Jesus Christ of eternity...
This is something that you need to address!
Jesus was not created because He is God,which the Bible says when the ruler of Israel comes He will be from everlasting,which means no beginning.
But Jesus is the firstborn of all creatures,and the beginning of the creation of God,and when the fulness of the time was come God sent forth His Son,made of a woman,made under the law,and He was made according to the flesh.
Which Jesus can be the firstborn of all creatures,and the beginning of the creation of God,before He is born,because God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,and Jesus,God manifest in flesh,was the first plan God had before He started creation.
Jesus is the only begotten Son of God,for He is the only human to be conceived by the Spirit of God,where the saints are adopted in to the kingdom and are sons of God.
But Jesus is the firstborn of all creatures,and the beginning of the creation of God,and when the fulness of the time was come God sent forth His Son,made of a woman,made under the law,and He was made according to the flesh.
Which Jesus can be the firstborn of all creatures,and the beginning of the creation of God,before He is born,because God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,and Jesus,God manifest in flesh,was the first plan God had before He started creation.
Jesus is the only begotten Son of God,for He is the only human to be conceived by the Spirit of God,where the saints are adopted in to the kingdom and are sons of God.
In one respect it does, but not in the way that you are querying.
If you cannot address your astounding proclamation I will not be allowing you to dictate what is to be discussed.
You are the one who has made an open declaration that is completely non-Christian and anti-Christian in its import.
Yet you are trying to push me around because I apparently had the audacity to confirm a doctrinal position that is central to Christianity.
You are on a Christian forum with a documented adherence to Orthodoxy. This statement is profoundly non-Christian: "I believe that the earthly body of Jesus Christ was begotting by God and NOT the eternal Jesus Christ."
I think you need to explain yourself!
If you cannot address your astounding proclamation I will not be allowing you to dictate what is to be discussed.
You are the one who has made an open declaration that is completely non-Christian and anti-Christian in its import.
Yet you are trying to push me around because I apparently had the audacity to confirm a doctrinal position that is central to Christianity.
You are on a Christian forum with a documented adherence to Orthodoxy. This statement is profoundly non-Christian: "I believe that the earthly body of Jesus Christ was begotting by God and NOT the eternal Jesus Christ."
I think you need to explain yourself!
That's exactly what the bible teaches. You are trying to tell me that Christ came out of the Father I'm asking you where the heck did you come up with that???? It's completely unbiblical! All I'm asking you to do is show me where the bible says that.
I don't care about a Roman Catholic creed, I want to know where the bible teaches that Christ came out of God.
I don't care about a Roman Catholic creed, I want to know where the bible teaches that Christ came out of God.