The Rapture

[justpassinthrough]

Sir, I have studied this topic for over 40 years, so I know what I am talking about. Therefore, let me make the teaching very clear:

Gathering of the church = Takes place prior to God's wrath, prior to the first seal being opened

Second coming = Jesus and those gathered, return to the earth to end the age after God's wrath

* You are here

* Church is gathered, dead and living

* Antichrist is revealed

* God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be in operation during those seven years

* Christ and the church return to the earth to end the age after God's wrath

* Beast and false prophet thrown into the lake of fire alive

* Satan bound in the Abyss

* Millennial kingdom (thousand year reign of Christ)

The above is a summary of the chronological order of events, but it demonstrates that the gathering of the church is a separate event from when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom.

All you keep doing is stating your opinion over and over, while ignoring what 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 says.

This shows us a textbook definition of a stronghold.

Your fortified mindset that has been studying this for 40 years, continues to exalt itself against the actual scripture (the knowledge of God) that teaches us about the coming of the Lord and His gathering together His Church at the resurrection first, then after that the rapture.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

All I have said so far is the resurrection and rapture happens at the coming of the Lord.


And and you have tried every way you know how to try and reject that plain and simple truth.


we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.


The word of God has discovered your condition, brother, and I love you enough to give you the truth.


Please, just st read what 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 says.


Can you agree that the resurrection and rapture occur at the coming of the Lord, based on what 1 Thessalonians 4:15 says?



JPT

 

[Endoscopy]

The end times being discussed are in both Daniel and Revelation. Revelation was one of the very last books written and a few decades after Jesus Crucifixion!! Get your timeline straight. It makes a difference when the words are written in context with Jesus sacrifice. Revelation points to the future not it's past.

Taking a phrase and ignoring all of the rest of the scripture that deals with the subject allows anyone to prove anything.

Stupid 5 minute rule struck again. Here is what I was trying to say in addition.


Taking a phrase and ignoring all of the rest of the scripture that deals with the subject allows anyone to prove anything.

You need to invest in a book like Burkhart's Systematic Theology that lists all verses on a topic. You don't have to agree with his concept but you can look up and decide for yourself what they mean. Single verses and especially phrases are not realistic. Context for the verses and the consideration of verses dealing with the issue is required.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

The actual site of the Ancient Temple is lost to us. The Jews are not sure where the Holy of Holies actually is, it is only assumed that it is where the Dome of the Rock is today, but they really don't know where it was. Just wanted to point that out.

Actually not quite true. It was in the city of David close to the temple mount going south of it. The temple was close to the temple mountm.

Well i am just going off the books that i have read concerning the Temple, They all could be wrong, but i doubt it. The Jews to this very day will not freely walk in the middle of the Temple Mount because they do not know where the Holy of Holies actually is, and don't want to accidentally step there. Wikipedia confirms as much: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount
Now the Jews will walk the perimeter of the Temple Mount, but not on the Temple Mount itself, because they do not know where the Temple actually was built. They can only speculate where it was built.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

Are you suggesting by merely asking them in the name of the Lord if they were sent by Him, that an evil demon is forced to tell them the TRUTH? A demon, appearing as an Angel, saying he is an Angel of God is not going to be honest and say "NO i am not sent by God" when you ask them a question in the name of the Lord. Scriptures teach how you can tell who is from God and who is not from God, and that is if what they say comes to pass or not, AND if what they are saying lines up with Scriptures or not. There is nothing that you can ask a demon that is going to force him to answer Truthfully, not even saying "In the name of Jesus" Demons will only answer Truly to Jesus Christ Himself.

No Demon will Confess that Jesus is God's Christ come in the flesh,

Luk_4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

These demons knew and testified that Jesus is the Christ and is the Son of God. This is what Scriptures plainly teaches. Demons knew He was the Son of God and they OBEYED Him when Jesus told them to do anything at all.

No Demon will Confess that Jesus is God's Christ come in the flesh, died in the flesh and Resurrected for our Justification and Salvation. No man has heard one confess this.

That may be True, however, Demons are tricky and could say the above with a slight change in wording. So it could seem they are confessing that Jesus is Christ in the flesh, but didn't really actually say that, depending on the words they use.

The Angel told me that there is a decree from God the Father that if one tried to fool someone in this way he would no longer be allowed on this planet.

If the angel actually did tell you that, then it is at this point that i do not believe you were talking with an Angel of God. satan and his demons were cast to the Earth, but you are saying they have a way to get off this planet. This is not the TRUTH, they are confined here and are not allowed to leave the vicinity of this planet under any circumstances, They can go as far as humans can go and that is it. Demons are subject to satan, they are slaves to satan, but you are teaching that there is a way for demons to escape being a slave to satan, all they have to do is claim that Jesus is the Christ in the flesh and they are no longer allowed to be on this planet, thereby getting away from satan. This is not True, nor did God tell you that thing. We will see on June 1st, who has been speaking to you.

He would immediately be put under chains of darkness for breaking this Law of God's and the demons know this.

demons are already bound by chains of darkness, all of which are slaves to satan.

That is why 1st John chapter 4 verses 1-3 should ALWAYS be applied when a Spiritual being approaches you.

And if any Spiritual being gives you a prophesy and then tells you that your not a prophet, should most certainly be questioned as a Spirit of God as well.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Yes this is true I know. Don't think I got to worry about it though. I can only report what I've been told being I challenged the Angel I did what I know to verify his position with God.

I worry more about God's approval than death at man's hand. I'm anonymous for the protection of my family. Will remain so even after May when this comes to pass. You think you guys are rough? Satanic people will destroy my family and I if they find who I am.

It seems to me you do not know or understand the enemy very well. satan knows who you are, and satan can reveal to any of his satanic people who you are and where you live, and give them all your information on your weaknesses. Remaining anonymous is smart, i agree, but thinking you are anonymous from satan or his followers is an error in your thinking.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[Endoscopy]

Well i am just going off the books that i have read concerning the Temple, They all could be wrong, but i doubt it. The Jews to this very day will not freely walk in the middle of the Temple Mount because they do not know where the Holy of Holies actually is, and don't want to accidentally step there. Wikipedia confirms as much: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount
Now the Jews will walk the perimeter of the Temple Mount, but not on the Temple Mount itself, because they do not know where the Temple actually was built. They can only speculate where it was built.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Thinking it is on the Temple Mount is erroneous. That wall is part of the Roman fort there.

The Bible states the temple was in the city of David. That starts at the southwest foot the Temple Mount and goes south from it. If on the Temple Mount on the southwest part and look down you will see the place the temple was. Remember the Romans tore down the whole temple area leaving no stone on top of another stone. Why would they leave that wall. Also the Romans built fortresses on high ground for defensive purposes. It is thought that Jews are getting ready to build on that site in the City of David.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

They flee as to not be killed, but Jesus shows up a very short time after they flee. (i know not how long that is between them fleeing and Jesus showing up to Rapture the Church, but i do know it is a very short time, days, a week, maybe a month, don't know)

Louis says

Hello DiscipleDave,

Greetings to you as well.

Louis says :The travailing woman in Revelation 12:14 flees into the wilderness for 3.5 times.
Revelation 12:6 describes these 3.5 times as 1,260 days, thereby designating each time as 360 days (or a shortened year).
The only other areas in the bible where 3.5 times appear are in Daniel 7:25 and 12:7.
In Daniel 7:25, the little horn, aka the mouth of the fourth beast with ten horns, wears out the saints over 3.5 times.
The remnant saints who make it through the tribulation period of 3.5 times in Daniel 7, receive a blessing on day 1335 in Daniel 12:12.
It is my view that this blessing on day 1335 represents the surviving saints being spiritually caught up to the Lord, or what many refer to as the rapture.

All this is True. Please refer to the Timeline below:



[/quote] Louis says :
There is additional corroboration for this in Micah 5:3, where the travailing woman after conceiving, the Lord then begins to reign on earth through the remnant saints. This further supports Revelation 12 where after the woman has conceived of a man child, and the man child is caught up to God in heaven, the Lord then commences to reign on the earth (Revelation 12:10).[/quote]

All true, see Timeline above.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[PlainWord]

Eduard Wilhelm Eugen Reuss
(1804-1891)

PIONEERED "NERO BEAST" CALCULATION FOR REV. 13:18​

In truth, the enigma was not so hard, though it has only been solved by exegesis in our own days. It was so little insoluble that several contemporary scholars found the clue simultaneously, and without knowing anything of one another’s labours. The ghematria is a Hebrews ar. The number has to be deciphered by the Hebrew Alphabet: rsq nwrn reads "Nero Caesar":---
n 50 + r 200 + w 6 + n 50 + q 100 + s 60 + r 200 = 666

 

[Endoscopy]

Luk_4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

These demons knew and testified that Jesus is the Christ and is the Son of God. This is what Scriptures plainly teaches. Demons knew He was the Son of God and they OBEYED Him when Jesus told them to do anything at all.



That may be True, however, Demons are tricky and could say the above with a slight change in wording. So it could seem they are confessing that Jesus is Christ in the flesh, but didn't really actually say that, depending on the words they use.



If the angel actually did tell you that, then it is at this point that i do not believe you were talking with an Angel of God. satan and his demons were cast to the Earth, but you are saying they have a way to get off this planet. This is not the TRUTH, they are confined here and are not allowed to leave the vicinity of this planet under any circumstances, They can go as far as humans can go and that is it. Demons are subject to satan, they are slaves to satan, but you are teaching that there is a way for demons to escape being a slave to satan, all they have to do is claim that Jesus is the Christ in the flesh and they are no longer allowed to be on this planet, thereby getting away from satan. This is not True, nor did God tell you that thing. We will see on June 1st, who has been speaking to you.



demons are already bound by chains of darkness, all of which are slaves to satan.



And if any Spiritual being gives you a prophesy and then tells you that your not a prophet, should most certainly be questioned as a Spirit of God as well.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

You ignore the special circumstance of that instance. They were trying to work against Him by saying that.

 

[abcdef]

A-F,

Cool, huh?

Way cool Dude!

The end, was the end of his nation in 70 AD.

Yes, that was the end of the age that was spoken of in Matt 24.

The book was sealed until that time when Christ opened it.

Yes, the book could not be opened until after 70 ad, after the scattering and the dest of Jeru.

The events of Revelation dealt with the destruction of Jeru in 70 AD

Only the 7 seals, primarily, which are the times 37 ad - 70 ad. The 6th and 7th seals show the 70 ad dest.

The trumpets show the time after 70 ad.

and the end of the Mosaic covenant age AKA, the Law.

The law ended when Jesus died on the cross and the veil was torn from top to bottom Mk 15:38 33ad.

The age ended when Jerusalem was destroyed.

Is it? The time periods do not match, not even close. A bit over 600 years compared to nearly 1900 years.

Yes, they are not equal in the eyes of men.

You are finally beginning to understand what I am saying.

that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.

It is saying that the time from Babylon until 70 ad is 3 1/2 times, 600 years, yes!

Not a literal 3 1/2 years! The 7 times are symbolic of the time of the statue in Daniel 2.

The 3 1/2 times in the Rev are symbolic of the second 3 1/2 times, the woman in ch 12, and the 2W's.

Both are describing the broken branches from 70 ad until 1967. They are symbolic times in symbolic passages.

The "holy people" lost their power in 70 AD when 93% of them were dead and the remaining 7% were led away captive. At this point, ALL THINGS (related to Israel and the Mosaic covenant) were finished. That age ended in 70 AD and thus ends the prophesy.

But it doesn't end ALL prophecy. Get over that teaching that is clouding your perceptions. I agree that much you say is right, but you must realize, and you have said it, that not all prophecies end in 70 ad. Stop trying to smash everything into that time frame. Open your mind to the time after 70 ad. when the trampling of Jerusalem by the gentile nations ends.

The 3 1/2 times in Dan 12, proves that the 3 1/2 times are not literal years. And there is another 3 1/2 times after that to make a complete 7 times. This proves hat there is a time after 70 ad.

There is nothing there about the restoration of Israel in 1948.

It's not about the country, it's about the control of Jerusalem, the trampling Lk 21:20-24, 24. Rev 11:2.

This is exactly where this "every prophecy ended in 70 ad" stuff gets you. The prophecy of the times of the gentiles has a beginning and an end. But the gentiles didn't end their trampling in 70 ad. they remained in control of the site of Jerusalem until 1967 and the ToG's came to an end. The times that describe Israel outside of Jerusalem all have a beginning and an end.

But nobody in the past could tell exactly how long that time was, until it came to an end.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Apart from Jesus the last Prophet was John the Baptist. Prophets were used to prepare Israel for the Christs first coming

John the Baptist was the last prophet to prophesy about the Jesus coming in the flesh. There are many prophets the Bible mention that were AFTER John the Baptist.
Prophets prophesied of Jesus coming in the flesh and what He would suffer. The last Prophet to prophesy things concerning Jesus coming in the flesh was indeed John the Baptist.
satan has started a doctrine that there are NO PROPHETS after John the Baptist, which thing is not True, nor does Scriptures teach that. Scriptures actually teaches contrary to that false doctrine. There were prophets mentioned AFTER John the Baptist. Even the Apostle Paul instructed where Prophets should be placed in the Church. The Apostle Paul even taught one of the gifts of Holy Ghost was prophesy. But leave it to the last days generation to believe false doctrines that John the Baptist was the LAST PROPHET. John the Baptist was the LAST PROPHET to prophesy about Jesus coming in the flesh, that is most TRUE, he was the last prophet to prophesy about that topic, as does Scriptures teach. But to think or believe that John the Baptist was the last prophet EVER, is simply a lie and is not the TRUTH.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[Endoscopy]

Luk_4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

These demons knew and testified that Jesus is the Christ and is the Son of God. This is what Scriptures plainly teaches. Demons knew He was the Son of God and they OBEYED Him when Jesus told them to do anything at all.



That may be True, however, Demons are tricky and could say the above with a slight change in wording. So it could seem they are confessing that Jesus is Christ in the flesh, but didn't really actually say that, depending on the words they use.



If the angel actually did tell you that, then it is at this point that i do not believe you were talking with an Angel of God. satan and his demons were cast to the Earth, but you are saying they have a way to get off this planet. This is not the TRUTH, they are confined here and are not allowed to leave the vicinity of this planet under any circumstances, They can go as far as humans can go and that is it. Demons are subject to satan, they are slaves to satan, but you are teaching that there is a way for demons to escape being a slave to satan, all they have to do is claim that Jesus is the Christ in the flesh and they are no longer allowed to be on this planet, thereby getting away from satan. This is not True, nor did God tell you that thing. We will see on June 1st, who has been speaking to you.



demons are already bound by chains of darkness, all of which are slaves to satan.



And if any Spiritual being gives you a prophesy and then tells you that your not a prophet, should most certainly be questioned as a Spirit of God as well.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

You ignore the special circumstance of that instance. They were trying to work against Him by saying that.

 

[abcdef]

Eduard Wilhelm Eugen Reuss
(1804-1891)

PIONEERED "NERO BEAST" CALCULATION FOR REV. 13:18​

In truth, the enigma was not so hard, though it has only been solved by exegesis in our own days. It was so little insoluble that several contemporary scholars found the clue simultaneously, and without knowing anything of one another’s labours. The ghematria is a Hebrews ar. The number has to be deciphered by the Hebrew Alphabet: rsq nwrn reads "Nero Caesar":---
n 50 + r 200 + w 6 + n 50 + q 100 + s 60 + r 200 = 666

The beast was not just one person, it is all the Caesars.

The statue of Dan 2 shows that the beast is the Roman Empire, who is the iron legs/toes.

The Antichrist is the head of that nation, all the Caesars are the Antichrist.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Thinking it is on the Temple Mount is erroneous. That wall is part of the Roman fort there.

The Bible states the temple was in the city of David. That starts at the southwest foot the Temple Mount and goes south from it. If on the Temple Mount on the southwest part and look down you will see the place the temple was. Remember the Romans tore down the whole temple area leaving no stone on top of another stone. Why would they leave that wall. Also the Romans built fortresses on high ground for defensive purposes. It is thought that Jews are getting ready to build on that site in the City of David.

The Wall is not a part of the Temple, that wall is only a part of the Temple mount. That big flat area (where the Dome of the Rock is located) is the supposed grounds of the Temple that was once built somewhere in that big flat area. The Jews do not know where the actual Temple was at, in that big flat area. The Jews to this day are trying to look for any evidence to where the Temple actually was at. Now they seem to have some evidence that it may have been somewhere else and not in the big flat area. But the Truth still remains, they just don't know where it was at.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Eduard Wilhelm Eugen Reuss
(1804-1891)

PIONEERED "NERO BEAST" CALCULATION FOR REV. 13:18​

In truth, the enigma was not so hard, though it has only been solved by exegesis in our own days. It was so little insoluble that several contemporary scholars found the clue simultaneously, and without knowing anything of one another’s labours. The ghematria is a Hebrews ar. The number has to be deciphered by the Hebrew Alphabet: rsq nwrn reads "Nero Caesar":---
n 50 + r 200 + w 6 + n 50 + q 100 + s 60 + r 200 = 666

Please study "Duel Prophecy" It happens a lot in the Bible.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

You ignore the special circumstance of that instance. They were trying to work against Him by saying that.

And yet they said it anyways. Which is my exact point. A poster said that demons can't say that, yet i have revealed a verse where they did say exactly that. Now if you would like to discuss the reasons for the demons saying that, then please do so. But i was clearly answering a poster who said they can't say that with a verse where they actually said that. Now if you want to turn the page and discuss why they said it, then ask your questions.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Way cool Dude!



Yes, that was the end of the age that was spoken of in Matt 24.




Yes, the book could not be opened until after 70 ad, after the scattering and the dest of Jeru.




Only the 7 seals, primarily, which are the times 37 ad - 70 ad. The 6th and 7th seals show the 70 ad dest.

The trumpets show the time after 70 ad.



The law ended when Jesus died on the cross and the veil was torn from top to bottom Mk 15:38 33ad.

The age ended when Jerusalem was destroyed.




Yes, they are not equal in the eyes of men.

You are finally beginning to understand what I am saying.




It is saying that the time from Babylon until 70 ad is 3 1/2 times, 600 years, yes!

Not a literal 3 1/2 years! The 7 times are symbolic of the time of the statue in Daniel 2.

The 3 1/2 times in the Rev are symbolic of the second 3 1/2 times, the woman in ch 12, and the 2W's.

Both are describing the broken branches from 70 ad until 1967. They are symbolic times in symbolic passages.




But it doesn't end ALL prophecy. Get over that teaching that is clouding your perceptions. I agree that much you say is right, but you must realize, and you have said it, that not all prophecies end in 70 ad. Stop trying to smash everything into that time frame. Open your mind to the time after 70 ad. when the trampling of Jerusalem by the gentile nations ends.

The 3 1/2 times in Dan 12, proves that the 3 1/2 times are not literal years. And there is another 3 1/2 times after that to make a complete 7 times. This proves hat there is a time after 70 ad.




It's not about the country, it's about the control of Jerusalem, the trampling Lk 21:20-24, 24. Rev 11:2.

This is exactly where this "every prophecy ended in 70 ad" stuff gets you. The prophecy of the times of the gentiles has a beginning and an end. But the gentiles didn't end their trampling in 70 ad. they remained in control of the site of Jerusalem until 1967 and the ToG's came to an end. The times that describe Israel outside of Jerusalem all have a beginning and an end.

But nobody in the past could tell exactly how long that time was, until it came to an end.

DUEL PROPHECIES, Please read about them.

Tell me if satan knows the Bible better than we do, how can he cause people to not believe those prophesies? Would not one tactic be for him to make it appear that the prophesies have already happened? Sure it is, and satan is the god of this world and has the power and authority to do so. So then a great tactic that satan uses is to make people believe that prophecies have already been fulfilled, therefore they will not look for them to happen again will they? Yet Scriptures plainly uses Duel Prophesies. This generation would do well to remember that, and to study what Duel Prophecies actually means. Just because a prophecy seems to be fulfilled in the past, DOES NOT MEAN it can't be fulfilled again. Wow satan has got this generation duped to the max.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[PlainWord]

Please study "Duel Prophecy" It happens a lot in the Bible.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Can I assume from your response that you agree the Beast in Rev 13 was Nero but we can expect another Nero in the future? What passage tells of the next Nero?

 

[abcdef]

DUEL PROPHECIES, Please read about them.

Tell me if satan knows the Bible better than we do, how can he cause people to not believe those prophesies? Would not one tactic be for him to make it appear that the prophesies have already happened? Sure it is, and satan is the god of this world and has the power and authority to do so. So then a great tactic that satan uses is to make people believe that prophecies have already been fulfilled, therefore they will not look for them to happen again will they? Yet Scriptures plainly uses Duel Prophesies. This generation would do well to remember that, and to study what Duel Prophecies actually means. Just because a prophecy seems to be fulfilled in the past, DOES NOT MEAN it can't be fulfilled again. Wow satan has got this generation duped to the max.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

It just depends on what you are talking about, which scriptures.

It is also dangerous to call scriptures dual when they are not.

 

[abcdef]

Can I assume from your response that you agree the Beast in Rev 13 was Nero but we can expect another Nero in the future? What passage tells of the next Nero?

Rev 17:10-11..........