GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[PS]

um, no, that is what you just "preached" and i was asking you about:



we were asking you about the woman caught in adultery, where the Pharisees, coming to Christ thinking to trick Him, had in mind to stone her -- as the Law actually does require.

PS reacts to this by rejecting the Pentateuch altogether as forgery; he says it's not scripture.
Studyman, refusing to admit that the Pharisees were seeking ((partly anyway - where's the adulterous man?)) to carry out exactly what the Law says, started saying referring to post-crucifixion/resurrection writings that the woman was already 'spiritually dead' so the Law is satisfied.

i mean to inquire whether you are actively rejecting the Law, denying what it says altogether ((similar to PS)) because it in fact commands corporeal, physical death be carried out at the hands of the congregation by stoning. remember, we're in Israel, in John 8 -- under the Law. will your dodginess lead you all the way to that conclusion?

so your response is to accuse me of "preaching" exactly the thing you were preaching.

RED: That is not quite right. The Pentateuch is scripture, it is right there in the Bible. We do know the Israelites worshipped many idols and we also know from scripture, they called the Golden Calf LORD. This means we have two LORDS. One of them is the deceiver, the serpent who made his first appearance in the Garden. Later Moses made an image of a serpent and later still, that same image was placed in the Temple where people worshipped it. Idol worship is another command Moses broke, he also made graven images in the form of the Cherubim and Seraphim.

The true LORD gave the commandments, and anything else comes from elsewhere.

 

[Studyman]

um, no, that is what you just "preached" and i was asking you about:



we were asking you about the woman caught in adultery, where the Pharisees, coming to Christ thinking to trick Him, had in mind to stone her -- as the Law actually does require.

PS reacts to this by rejecting the Pentateuch altogether as forgery; he says it's not scripture.
Studyman, refusing to admit that the Pharisees were seeking ((partly anyway - where's the adulterous man?)) to carry out exactly what the Law says, started saying referring to post-crucifixion/resurrection writings that the woman was already 'spiritually dead' so the Law is satisfied.

i mean to inquire whether you are actively rejecting the Law, denying what it says altogether ((similar to PS)) because it in fact commands corporeal, physical death be carried out at the hands of the congregation by stoning. remember, we're in Israel, in John 8 -- under the Law. will your dodginess lead you all the way to that conclusion?

so your response is to accuse me of "preaching" exactly the thing you were preaching.

As I said before, it's not my fault you don't understand God's Word. Jesus has given you the key, but you refuse it as it goes against your religious traditions.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

When you decide to honor Him by following His Instructions, you get back with me. We will see eye to eye if that happens.

Then you will be able to accept the truth that God's Laws killed the Woman, as commanded, as it did Paul and all of us. Jesus gave her a chance to make NEW choices when He commanded again: "Go and sin no more". But until you deny your religious traditions and turn to God, you will never be allowed to understand.

 

[posthuman]

you know how it's said, "you who judge others, do you not do the same things yourself?"

This is exactly what I mean about ignoring peoples posts. You make a religious claim "
. . .
Someone posts a case that your claim is not based or founded on Biblical Truth, in this case me. Then instead of having a discussion about your preaching in question, you just "one line" yourself on to something else.

have a look, i've collected this conversation into one handy post, for reference & perusal:

Under His Law she was already condemned by Him. No reason to do it twice. Let her show her repentance.

the Law says stone to death an adulterer.

why does it not apply?

The law came and she died just Like Paul said

the Law says of those who commit wickedness:

take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate
and stone that person to death.
(Deuteronomy 17:5)​

is this not so?

God says His Words are Spiritual. Paul said the law came and He died. Who gave Him the Law? Was it not the congregation of the Lord?

Didnt the harlot die when the Word came same as Paul? Have you any understanding at all?

does the Law command that adulterers be physically put to death, yes or no?

And she was dead spiritually as the Law commanded, just like Paul was; "The Commandment came and I died" just as the Law prescribed.

Jesus says " I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." Did Jesus give this woman the same chance that we all get?

"Now go and commit adultery no more". The Law did it's job, killed this woman, she has only one place where she can be "freed" from this death, so this Law lead her to Christ as it is written. She is forgiven and Jesus told her to "Bring works worthy of forgiveness (Repentance)

Not difficult to understand at all.

this was before the crucifixion.

if you preach now that "spiritual observance" of the commandments is "okay" then is it reasonable for you to judge others for "spiritual observance" of His rest?

So you preach the Law didn't kill anyone until Jesus died. Wow, the hits just keep coming.

 

[PS]

But this is not true of my servant Moses; he is faithful in all my house.
(Numbers 12:7)

​

. . . except, you don't actually believe the Bible. you think you can edit it when it doesn't fit your understanding ((or perhaps better said, when your understanding doesn't fit it)) - right? obviously you will say Numbers 12 is not scripture?

O' yes, I believe the Bible, what I blame is human misunderstanding. Thinking Adam was the first man ever is one example.

 

[posthuman]

Then you will be able to accept the truth that God's Laws killed the Woman, as commanded, as it did Paul and all of us.

the Law clearly instructs that adulterers be put to death.
physical death. corporeal punishment at the hands of the congregation.

do you accept this or are you in the boat with PS re-writing Exodus through Deuteronomy according to human tradition?

 

[Shamah]

Jesus also made changes to the rules regarding murder and adultery

could he change worship day?

***********

posted from my phone, blessings!

These views come from you not being learned in the word.

Adultery is not ok now. The pharisees were trying to imporperly enfore punishment, Yahshua was following the Law. Most know nothing of what was going on here because they do not read the word.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 8:3-11, "8:3, "And the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And having set her in the midst,"8:4, "they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery."8:5, "“And in the Torah Mosheh commanded us that such should be stoned. What then do You say?”"8:6, "And this they said, trying Him, so that they might accuse Him. But [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], bending down, wrote on the ground with the finger, as though He did not hear."8:7, "But as they kept on questioning Him, He straightened up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”"8:8, "And bending down again, He wrote on the ground."8:9, "And when they heard it, being reproved by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the older ones until the last. And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]was left alone, and the woman standing in the middle."8:10, "And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], straightening up and seeing no one but the woman, said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Did no one condemn you?”"8:11, "And she said, “No one, Master.” And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to her, “Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more.”[/FONT][/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 20:10-11, ‘And a man who commits adultery with the wife of another man, who commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor: the adulterer and the adulteress shall certainly be put to death.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Where was the man that was committing adultery with this woman? The scribes and Pharisees did not include him but only the woman. The Law says “the adulterer and the adulteress shall certainly be put to death.” Therefore without bringing the man also a legal case could not even be started. So no Yahshua/Jesus did not change the Law at any time, the Law was not being followed by the scribes and Pharisees.[/FONT]

 

[Studyman]

God gave Moses the Ten Commandments which Moses disobeyed big time apart from the 4th commandment, which typically for Moses harmed nobody if he disobeyed it, so it was pointless him disobeying it.

It wasn't the God of the Commandments who told Moses to "kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (Num 31:18)

So who commanded Moses to do these terrible things? Jesus had the answer in John 8:44.

What I am interested in knowing is why are you so proud to be a Jew. I would be so ashamed, I could never admit to it.

Again, Paul explains why you believe this.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

You go ahead and imply that God is really the devil, but the truth is you don't understand His Word because He has withheld it from you.

I am not ashamed to be grafted into the Holy Tree.

 

[posthuman]

O' yes, I believe the Bible, what I blame is human misunderstanding. Thinking Adam was the first man ever is one example.

but you just said you don't believe Genesis, which says the first man is Adam. and in previous posts you say you don't believe Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers or Deuteronomy. you don't believe Joshua, you don't believe Judges.
i guess you mean, you believe 'selected portions' of the Bible?

now why doesn't Studyman have an issue with this, and instead curse post all day because post basically just quotes Romans to him and asks questions that make him too uncomfortable to answer directly?

 

[Studyman]

you know how it's said, "you who judge others, do you not do the same things yourself?"



have a look, i've collected this conversation into one handy post, for reference & perusal:

I've read your posts, your condemnation means little to me.

 

[PS]

the Law clearly instructs that adulterers be put to death.
physical death. corporeal punishment at the hands of the congregation.

do you accept this or are you in the boat with PS re-writing Exodus through Deuteronomy according to human tradition?

"R[FONT=&quot]ightly dividing the word of truth" is more accurate. [/FONT]

 

[Studyman]

the Law clearly instructs that adulterers be put to death.
physical death. corporeal punishment at the hands of the congregation.

do you accept this or are you in the boat with PS re-writing Exodus through Deuteronomy according to human tradition?

As I said, when you can explain how you eat Jesus Flesh, in order to get to heaven, then I am willing to discuss the spiritual intent of stoning sinners to death.

 

[Studyman]

i do want to talk about it, and i am


it's difficult to deal with long posts on a small screen

how about breaking it down?

***********

posted from my phone, blessings!

Jesus didn't change His own instructions regarding murder and adultery. He was correcting the Mainstream Preachers of His time. This is another deception that is further by religious traditions of the day.

Matt. 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus is rebuking the Mainstream Preachers of His time. What was Jesus problem with them?

Matt. 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matt. 23:4 For they (Pharisees, not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders;(Necks) but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

 

[PS]

but you just said you don't believe Genesis, which says the first man is Adam. and in previous posts you say you don't believe Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers or Deuteronomy. you don't believe Joshua, you don't believe Judges.
i guess you mean, you believe 'selected portions' of the Bible?

now why doesn't Studyman have an issue with this, and instead curse post all day because post basically just quotes Romans to him and asks questions that make him too uncomfortable to answer directly?

I don't think you are reading me properly. Adam is the first man in Jewish chronology, that much is true, but he was living in the Bronze Age and when Cain fled to the Land of Nod he was building a walled city. Early man did not build in stone. Please try to understand. This is where mistakes creep in.

If you have a problem with anything I say, please ask. Far better to get it sorted than harbour ill feeling. I am always ready to accept correction.

 

[Studyman]

i do want to talk about it, and i am


it's difficult to deal with long posts on a small screen

how about breaking it down?

***********

posted from my phone, blessings!

Peter also encounters this problem in Acts 15. He also rebukes them for the burdens they attempted to place on their necks.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

So Jesus just told us all: Matt. 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Then rebukes the preachers again, for their doctrines, Yes. Then He continues to straighten out their preaching.

 

[Studyman]

i do want to talk about it, and i am


it's difficult to deal with long posts on a small screen

how about breaking it down?

***********

posted from my phone, blessings!

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

There are some, Who come in Christ's Name, who actually preach that this is speaking about Moses, or God (Jesus) who instructed Moses. But Jesus didn't say "You have heard it from Moses" He said "You have heard it from THEM of old time"

But as you can see, Jesus is speaking about the preaching the Pharisees had promoted which had been taught for centuries. When Jesus sent them Prophets to straighten them out, they killed them.

The "Them of old time" are the Levite Scribes, Pharisees who had corrupted God's Word. Jesus exposed what He, as God of the OT, really taught.

 

[BillG]

As I said before, it's not my fault you don't understand God's Word. Jesus has given you the key, but you refuse it as it goes against your religious traditions.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

When you decide to honor Him by following His Instructions, you get back with me. We will see eye to eye if that happens.

Then you will be able to accept the truth that God's Laws killed the Woman, as commanded, as it did Paul and all of us. Jesus gave her a chance to make NEW choices when He commanded again: "Go and sin no more". But until you deny your religious traditions and turn to God, you will never be allowed to understand.

I see what you are saying and to a certain extent the last 2 certain sentences of your last paragraph I do agree with.

I don't understand the first sentence though. The adulteress should have been stoned under the law, that is killed.

If we look at

Leviticus 20:1
Chapter 20
Penalties for Breaking the Law
1 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,

Then we find

Leviticus 20:10


10 “The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.

So it seems to me that under the law God is saying that this lady should have been stoned along with the man.

But under that law Jesus could not condemn her.

As I said yesterday to me this was a trap.
If Jesus did condemn her then the Roman authorities would have been on him like a shot.
Because only they could condemn someone to death. That being the case if Jesus did condemn her so that her death followed then he himself would have probably been put to death as well.

So to me putting that aside Jesus could not condemn because,

The man was not there.
There were no witnesses.

That is what the law of God required.

Was not Jesus under this law?

So would you mind explaining what you mean when you say

""Then you will be able to accept the truth that Gods laws killed this woman"

Not trying to trap you, just do not get what your saying.

 

[Studyman]

i do want to talk about it, and i am


it's difficult to deal with long posts on a small screen

how about breaking it down?

***********

posted from my phone, blessings!

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

You are furthering the preaching that Jesus just amended God's Commandment here, in Matt. 5. But Jesus taught this truth from the beginning and those who aren't interested in "Creating their own religion" as did the Pharisees, can easily find this truth.

Lev. 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

 

[PS]

Again, Paul explains why you believe this.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

You go ahead and imply that God is really the devil, but the truth is you don't understand His Word because He has withheld it from you.

I am not ashamed to be grafted into the Holy Tree.

Not true. The devil is the impersonator. If you think Jesus (God) would command murder and rape you are sadly mistaken.

 

[Studyman]

i do want to talk about it, and i am


it's difficult to deal with long posts on a small screen

how about breaking it down?

***********

posted from my phone, blessings!

Jesus wasn't changing God's Law here in Matt. 5, as your post implies. He was exposing the Mainstream Preachers and their doctrines which came from man and setting the record straight on what the Word really teaches. You can go down the list and find where Jesus already detailed this truth through Moses or the Prophets. It's just that the Preachers in charge of administering God's Instructions, corrupted it instead. This is why Jesus created a "New Covenant".

Heb. 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (not Levi)

I hope this breakdown helps.

 

[Shamah]

I see what you are saying and to a certain extent the last 2 certain sentences of your last paragraph I do agree with.

I don't understand the first sentence though. The adulteress should have been stoned under the law, that is killed.

If we look at

Leviticus 20:1
Chapter 20
Penalties for Breaking the Law
1 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,

Then we find

Leviticus 20:10


10 “The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.

So it seems to me that under the law God is saying that this lady should have been stoned along with the man.

But under that law Jesus could not condemn her.

As I said yesterday to me this was a trap.
If Jesus did condemn her then the Roman authorities would have been on him like a shot.
Because only they could condemn someone to death. That being the case if Jesus did condemn her so that her death followed then he himself would have probably been put to death as well.

So to me putting that aside Jesus could not condemn because,

The man was not there.
There were no witnesses.

That is what the law of God required.

Was not Jesus under this law?

So would you mind explaining what you mean when you say

""Then you will be able to accept the truth that Gods laws killed this woman"

Not trying to trap you, just do not get what your saying.

"the adulterer and the adulteress"

These views come from you not being learned in the word.

Adultery is not ok now. The pharisees were trying to imporperly enfore punishment, Yahshua was following the Law. Most know nothing of what was going on here because they do not read the word.

John 8:3-11, "8:3, "And the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And having set her in the midst,"8:4, "they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery."8:5, "“And in the Torah Mosheh commanded us that such should be stoned. What then do You say?”"8:6, "And this they said, trying Him, so that they might accuse Him. But יהושע, bending down, wrote on the ground with the finger, as though He did not hear."8:7, "But as they kept on questioning Him, He straightened up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”"8:8, "And bending down again, He wrote on the ground."8:9, "And when they heard it, being reproved by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the older ones until the last. And יהושע was left alone, and the woman standing in the middle."8:10, "And יהושע, straightening up and seeing no one but the woman, said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Did no one condemn you?”"8:11, "And she said, “No one, Master.” And יהושע said to her, “Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more.”



Leviticus 20:10-11, ‘And a man who commits adultery with the wife of another man, who commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor: the adulterer and the adulteress shall certainly be put to death.”

Where was the man that was committing adultery with this woman? The scribes and Pharisees did not include him but only the woman. The Law says “the adulterer and the adulteress shall certainly be put to death.” Therefore without bringing the man also a legal case could not even be started. So no Yahshua/Jesus did not change the Law at any time, the Law was not being followed by the scribes and Pharisees.