Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

Rom 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor heavenly rulers, nor things that are present, nor things to come, nor powers,
Rom 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

God bless!

Seems rather clear to me!!

 

[BillG]

If Jesus says to forgive every man that trespasses against you, or your heavenly Father will not forgive you of your trespasses against Him, do you believe that or not?

Probably not because Paul seems to override the sayings of Jesus. You seem to be taking the words of Paul over the words of Jesus. What do you think?

So Pauls teachings were not divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit?
If not then we have a big problem.

What's your thoughts?

 

[dcontroversal]

Then you have the types who will rationalize their rejection of Scripture, saying they go mainly by the "red letters" i.e., those words that Jesus is supposed to have said. But those red letter quotes are written by the very same apostles that irrational people will say cannot be trusted in anything else they have said. The human mind of the blind is certainly not short of ways to rationalize their illogical nonsense.

I have a black letter edition and no problem understanding who is talking and or accepting it all as the word of God!

 

[dcontroversal]

So Pauls teachings were not divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit?
If not then we have a big problem.

What's your thoughts?

Paul was inspired, wrote the words that Jesus had to say, but the disciples were not yet ready....and most are flat ignorant of the fact that Jesus was born, lived and died under the law which ratified the NEW COVENANT WHICH PAUL COVERS..........and the words of both must be interpreted in light of that fact!

 

[star]

So Pauls teachings were not divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit?
If not then we have a big problem.

What's your thoughts?

That "other site" had Paul haters too.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Are you saying that the people in Revelations 20:12 are different than the people in Revelations 20:12-15?

The people in Rev 20 : 12- 15 are all the same people

Dead

Delivered to god (not ressurected by God

Judge for their works (since they rejected christ, they have nothing left but their works to rely on)

Found wanting, Because their works were not enough to make up for their sin

Will suffer the second death.

No person who was born again will be at that judgment. They were ressurected by christ and glorified.

The cross paid their penalty, so they will nto have to stand trial at the great white throne.

 

[longtrekker]

no

Jesus is referring to those without imputed righteous

Jesus in that whole chapter (as well as most the chapter before and after) is specifically admonishing the acts of money lovers

and pharisees

if youre going by works or the law

this is truth

and when we are judged
we too will be judged like this


the question is wether or not you have the imputed righteousness of Jesus

(which is NOT BY works)


there are zero errors in the bible

it flows in perfect harmony if you rightly divide

Hi NNM

Thanks for clearing that up for me !

Sorta wondered myself from time to time about that one - but in context as you've pointed out i get it !

 

[BillG]

To be saved we have to build our house on the rock being a doer of the word, but what happens if you keep on sinning? Will you lose your salvation? If you keep on sinning you are building your house on the sand....?

To be saved we have to place our faith in Jesus who is the rock of our salvation.

It is then that Jesus does the building through the Holy Spirit who is in us. The Holy Spirit that Jesus promised would come when he went back to heaven in order to come to convict the world of its sin.
That sin being unbelief in him.

The Holy Spirit works to conform us to the image of Jesus.

The problem is, lay faulty foundations then we have a problem.

Who lays the foundation?
People like you and me and others here who teach what we feel the true foundation is meant to be.

There is a difference between wanting to keep in sinning and someone who has a pattern of sin but hates it but can't break free of it.

The response to both scenarios are totally different.

One who says "I can sin all I want and be forgiven" needs to told about about Romans 6

The other person we need to to come alongside and find out what is going on behind the scenes.

 

[benhur]

It never changed, Sunday is the beginning of the week and Saturday is the end, which is the seventh day. the day God rested.

You are right that Saturday is the end of the week, which in OT times represented the day God rested. You are right that Sunday is the first day of the week and in NT times represented the day Jesus was resurrected. Sunday became the Day of the Lord's or the Lord Day. Did Jesus change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday?

Jesus did change the entire gospel from the Law of Moses (OT) to the Law of Jesus Christ (NT). With that change of the enitre gospel came a change in the priesthood, and a change to a new law, and a change in the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday so as to honor the day the Lord was resurrected. I believe Jesus did change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.

In Egypt for instance, the Copt Christians observe the Sabbath on Sunday but they also honor the Saturday Sabbath by performing no work on that day, since God rested that day. But they worship in their churches on the Sunday Sabbaath.

Other Christians around the world worship on Saturday.

 

[BillG]

Paul was inspired, wrote the words that Jesus had to say, but the disciples were not yet ready....and most are flat ignorant of the fact that Jesus was born, lived and died under the law which ratified the NEW COVENANT WHICH PAUL COVERS..........and the words of both must be interpreted in light of that fact!

Thank you Dr Watson. We deduce the same thing

Now this may detract but it is relevant to the fact Jesus was born, lived and died under the law.

Why did he not condemn the adulteress woman?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is not me saying it, it is Jesus. If you can't forgive a man his trespass against you, it may be a sign of other problems that you possess, and therefore your heavenly Father will finally not forgive you of your trespasses against Him. Jesus didn't say that if you forgive everyone but 1, your Father will forgive you. So you take the words of Jesus as they are read in the bible, OR NOT. That is your risk.

So there you go folks, the new gospel. He who believes, and always forgives his brother shall never perish and have eternal life.

Thats a first for me, anyone else heard this stuff?

Paul does say some things that would seem to overide the sayings of Jesus, again, but I'm not sure I would bet my eternal life on that?

I bet my eternal life on the cross. And the promise of God himself.
No on the fact that I never commit a sin, If my eternal life is based on me being sinless. I have no hope.

I have told you the truth which I read in the bible. Jesus says these things, they must be true. So if you are going to teach people that they can sin and be forgiven of their sin, even if Jesus in the bible says otherwise, you may want to think again.
This forgiveness idea can also be seen in Mark 11, and Luke 6, and in the Lords prayer, and then read Matthew 18 the parable and then vs 35. As I read the bible Jesus really has a strong opinion that if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven. Don't blindly rush forward because Paul seems to override these saying of Jesus.

The whole message of the house built on rock or sand was this: Be a doer of the word, not just a hearer only of the word. In order for the wise man to be able to be saved he had to build his house on a rock and he listened and did it. I believe the emphasis of this saying is on doing what the Lord says to do, so that when the storms come, you will be saved. I can see your OSAS message too, but that is not the message in this saying, because it doen't talk about what happened to the man after the rains came and his house was saved. The story ends there. So to me the saying is about doing, not OSAS.
Obviously we disagree, and that's OK. Everyone has the right to interpret the bible as they see it.

lol.. Once the house is built it lasts forever. Twist it and turn it however you want, The foundation is christ. And it will never fail.


We work BECAUSE we are saved, not in order to BE SAVED, if there was ever a law which God could give us in which we could save ourselves. Don;t you think God would have done that instead of coming to earth to suffer that horrific death and humiliation?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To be saved we have to build our house on the rock being a doer of the word, but what happens if you keep on sinning? Will you lose your salvation? If you keep on sinning you are building your house on the sand....?

If you built your house on the rock, and it can never be destroyed, What can you to to destroy it?

People who keep on sinning as John said have never seen God or known God. Ie, they built their house on the sand.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am curious. What is this talking about?

Imagine you construct around someones words a different story, which could be true but
could also be imaginary. And in this story there is sin, evil, a desire to do harm etc to others.

You then start talking to the story as if it is true, and people who believe the same back story,
follow along.

Now the real story is an emotional attempt to upset people so they then respond negatively,
and you say, "told you so."

The addiction to this kind of behaviour is the delusion of thinking you know people before you
have met them, and not reading what they write. Now imagine how these type of people read
scripture. They read according to their own back story, which ends up with the wrong
conclusions. The only cure, is abide in the word, to find purity and openness, and to learn
to be simple in ones interactions, giving gracefully back as one receives.

So I do not know who they are referring to, or even why, but I suggest reading what people
bring is a good starting place. Grace and peace to you in Christ Jesus, Amen

How does this person continue to get away with this?

 

[Budman]

So there you go folks, the new gospel. He who believes, and always forgives his brother shall never perish and have eternal life.

Thats a first for me, anyone else heard this stuff?

That's a new one.

Whenever someone adds a single requirement to the gospel, they've destroyed it. These people just can't seem to understand it isn't about us at all - it's all about Christ!

Christ alone. Christ plus nothing.

Folks just can't seem to stop glorifying themselves.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's a new one.

Whenever someone adds a single requirement to the gospel, they've destroyed it. These people just can't seem to understand it isn't about us at all - it's all about Christ!

Christ alone. Christ plus nothing.

Folks just can't seem to stop glorifying themselves.

its called pride. It is against our nature to believe we can not help ourselves. We have to have our sticky little fingers in everything, or we will not have anything to do with it.

 

[Magenta]

I am curious. What is this talking about?

Imagine you construct around someones words a different story, which could be true but
could also be imaginary. And in this story there is sin, evil, a desire to do harm etc to others.

You then start talking to the story as if it is true, and people who believe the same back story,
follow along.

Now the real story is an emotional attempt to upset people so they then respond negatively,
and you say, "told you so."

The addiction to this kind of behaviour is the delusion of thinking you know people before you
have met them, and not reading what they write. Now imagine how these type of people read
scripture. They read according to their own back story, which ends up with the wrong
conclusions. The only cure, is abide in the word, to find purity and openness, and to learn
to be simple in ones interactions, giving gracefully back as one receives.

So I do not know who they are referring to, or even why, but I suggest reading what people
bring is a good starting place. Grace and peace to you in Christ Jesus, Amen

So you do not know what it is about, but you construct an imaginary, fictional story all about it, and decide it is true? That is funny in a pathetic very ironic sort of way...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you do not know what it is about, but you construct an imaginary, fictional story all about it, and imagine it is true? That is funny in a pathetic very ironic sort of way...

Another person used to do this exact same stuff.. How he gets away with it is beyond me, All I know is God is watching, He will get his..

 

[Magenta]

Another person used to do this exact same stuff.. How he gets away with it is beyond me, All I know is God is watching, He will get his..

It is true in as much as it applies to him Oh, the irony!

 

[BillG]

That's a new one.

Whenever someone adds a single requirement to the gospel, they've destroyed it. These people just can't seem to understand it isn't about us at all - it's all about Christ!

Christ alone. Christ plus nothing.

Folks just can't seem to stop glorifying themselves.

To be honest I don't on the whole think people are glorifying themselves.

The only ones I never seen do this are those who say they not sin and those who say they if they do then they are not knowingly sinning therefore not held accountable.

The truth is sin is sin, whether knowingly or not.

There's no excuse. Sins of commission and ommision are the same.
Jesus made that perfectly clear, along with "you may not do it but if you think it then you are just as guilty as doing it"

Let's be honest.
We as genuine believers seek to be like Jesus.
Why?

Because he has asked us to be.
We seek to be Holy just like he is.

Why?

Because he loves us and we love him.

So everything we seek to be is as a result of love.

If we do it to be loved then the focus is so wrong.
That leads to works orientated bias.

If the focus is wrong then the foundation is wrong.

People I just ask.

What does God want from us?

Relationship or works.

Or relationship that leads to works?

Relationship will release us to be like him.
Working to establish the relationship will not.

Because established the relationship through Jesus.

 

[ElAmor]

the same reason He never knows anyone not born again

unbelief

they trusted their works

not His sacrifice

this is why their fruits show them boasting of what THEY did


they were NEVER saved which is why they will be judged according to their righteousness

and not His perfect righteousness

and they will fall short

not being without blemish

and even if they only have 1 sin
they will be deemed

"workers of iniquity"

or "sinners"

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

(that we believe on Him the Father sent)

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(boasting of works)
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


(never knew them.... NEVER.... these arent born again Christians so they will be judged by THEIR works not HIS imputed righteousness)


john 6

27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Luke 6:46 The Wise and Foolish Builders “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

1 John 2:3-6 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “i know Him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

1 John 3:21-24 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to BELIEVE in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to LOVE one another as he commanded us. THOSE WHO OBEY HIS COMMANDS LIVE IN HIM, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

New International Version 1984 Matthew 6:19-24 Treasures in Heaven “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. “The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness! “No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. YOU CANNOT SERVE BOTH GOD AND MONEY.

New International Version 1984 Matthew 19:16-26 The Rich Young Man Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “ give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but WITH God all things are possible.”