GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,284
6,656
113
Amen! Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Even when Sabbatarians set out to worship on the Sabbath, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.

If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place (no traveling) on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).

These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1).

If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he keeps only part of it?

If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church? The Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the Old Covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.
true. also, there is so much Scripture in the N.T. about how the believer is supposed to do and not do. but, keeping or not keeping the Sabbath is not there. no matter how many rabbit out of a hat tricks they try to pull to make it be there.
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
SIN WILL KEEP ALL WHO PRACTICE IT OUT OF GOD'S KINGDOM

SIN DESTROYED MANKIND IN NOAHS DAY

Genesis 6
5,
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Mat 5:28
But I say to you, That whoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Mark 7
20, And he said, That which comes out of the man, that defiles the man.
21, For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23, All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

6,
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7, And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repents me that I have made them.


SIN DESTROYED SODOM AND GOMORAH

Genesis 18
18,
Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19, For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring on Abraham that which he has spoken of him.
20, And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21, I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come to me; and if not, I will know.
22, And the men turned their faces from there, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.

Genesis 19
24,
Then the LORD rained on Sodom and on Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25, And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew on the ground.
26, But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.


AS IT WAS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH AND SODOM SO WILL IT BE BEFORE JESUS RETURNS

Luke 17
26
, And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27, They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28, Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;
29, But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30, Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31, In that day, he which shall be on the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32, Remember Lot's wife.

SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7). If we break ANY of the 10 Commandmets we stand guitly before God in SIN (James 2:8-12).

..............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
PRACTICING KNOWN SIN WILL KEEP YOU OUT OF GOD'S KINGDOM


Eze 3:17-21
17, Son of man, I have made you a watchman to the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. 18, When I say to the wicked, You shall surely die; and you give him not warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at your hand. 19, Yet if you warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul. 20, Again, When a righteous man does turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because you have not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at your hand. 21, Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he does not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also you have delivered your soul.

Eze 18:4,
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.,

Eze 18:13, Has given forth on usury, and has taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he has done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be on him.

Isaiah 59:2


But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.


Micah 3:4


Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves in an evil way in their deeds.


Jer 31:29-30,

In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge, But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eats the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

Ezekiel 39:23-24


And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword. According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them


Isaiah 1:15


And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.


Deuteronomy 31:17-18


Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us? And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.


Proverbs 1:28
and Proverbs 1:29

Then they will call me, but I won’t answer; they will seek me earnestly, but they won’t find me. For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord


Isaiah 57:17


Because of the iniquity of his unjust gain I was angry, I struck him; I hid my face and was angry, but he went on backsliding in the way of his own heart.


Proverbs 15:29


The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.


Deuteronomy 32:19-20


And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very perverse generation, children in whom is no faith.


John 9:31


We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him.


Proverbs 28:9


He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.


Job 27:8-9


For what hope hath the hypocrite when he hath heaped up riches, if God take away his soul? Will God hear his cry, when trouble cometh upon him?


Zechariah 7:13


Therefore it has come to pass that as He cried and they would not hear, so they cried and I would not hear,” saith the Lord of hosts.


Ezekiel 8:17-18


Have you seen this, son of man?” he asked. “Is it nothing to the people of Judah that they commit these detestable sins, leading the whole nation into violence, thumbing their noses at me, and provoking my anger? Therefore, I will respond in fury. I will neither pity nor spare them. And though they cry for mercy, I will not listen.


Jeremiah 14:10-12


Thus saith the Lord unto this people, Thus have they loved to wander, they have not refrained their feet, therefore the Lord doth not accept them; he will now remember their iniquity, and visit their sins. Then said the Lord unto me, Pray not for this people for their good. When they fast, I will not hear their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and an oblation, I will not accept them: but I will consume them by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilence.


Isaiah 58:9


At that time, when you call, the Lord will answer; when you cry out, He will say, ‘Here I am.’ If you get rid of the yoke among you, the finger-pointing and malicious speaking,


Proverbs 21:13


Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard.


Psalm 66:18


If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me


Psalm 34:15-16


The eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous, and his ears are open unto their cry. The face of the Lord is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.


Hebrews 10:26-27
26, For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


1 John 2:3-4

3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:3-10

3, And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure. 4, Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5, And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6, Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.


Yep don't look good for some come Judgement day.

................


God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,284
6,656
113
SIN WILL KEEP ALL WHO PRACTICE IT OUT OF GOD'S KINGDOM

SIN DESTROYED MANKIND IN NOAHS DAY

Genesis 6
5,
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Mat 5:28
But I say to you, That whoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Mark 7
20, And he said, That which comes out of the man, that defiles the man.
21, For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23, All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

6,
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7, And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repents me that I have made them.


SIN DESTROYED SODOM AND GOMORAH

Genesis 18
18,
Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19, For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring on Abraham that which he has spoken of him.
20, And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21, I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come to me; and if not, I will know.
22, And the men turned their faces from there, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.

Genesis 19
24,
Then the LORD rained on Sodom and on Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25, And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew on the ground.
26, But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.


AS IT WAS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH AND SODOM SO WILL IT BE BEFORE JESUS RETURNS

Luke 17
26
, And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27, They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28, Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;
29, But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30, Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31, In that day, he which shall be on the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32, Remember Lot's wife.

SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7). If we break ANY of the 10 Commandmets we stand guitly before God in SIN (James 2:8-12).

..............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
the flood and Sodom and Gomorrah had nothing to do with Sabbath. and, sin is knowing to do good and not dong so, missing the mark, falling short of a standard. it is much deeper than command keeping. we are not saved by command keeping.

and, since Sabbath keeping was never a command for believers, and gentiles were never under the law of Moses, it is a mute point.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,284
6,656
113
PRACTICING KNOWN SIN WILL KEEP YOU OUT OF GOD'S KINGDOM


Eze 3:17-21
17, Son of man, I have made you a watchman to the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. 18, When I say to the wicked, You shall surely die; and you give him not warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at your hand. 19, Yet if you warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul. 20, Again, When a righteous man does turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because you have not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at your hand. 21, Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he does not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also you have delivered your soul.

Eze 18:4,
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.,

Eze 18:13, Has given forth on usury, and has taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he has done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be on him.

Isaiah 59:2


But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.


Micah 3:4


Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves in an evil way in their deeds.


Jer 31:29-30,

In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge, But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eats the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

Ezekiel 39:23-24


And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword. According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them


Isaiah 1:15


And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.


Deuteronomy 31:17-18


Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us? And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.


Proverbs 1:28
and Proverbs 1:29

Then they will call me, but I won’t answer; they will seek me earnestly, but they won’t find me. For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord


Isaiah 57:17


Because of the iniquity of his unjust gain I was angry, I struck him; I hid my face and was angry, but he went on backsliding in the way of his own heart.


Proverbs 15:29


The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.


Deuteronomy 32:19-20


And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very perverse generation, children in whom is no faith.


John 9:31


We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him.


Proverbs 28:9


He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.


Job 27:8-9


For what hope hath the hypocrite when he hath heaped up riches, if God take away his soul? Will God hear his cry, when trouble cometh upon him?


Zechariah 7:13


Therefore it has come to pass that as He cried and they would not hear, so they cried and I would not hear,” saith the Lord of hosts.


Ezekiel 8:17-18


Have you seen this, son of man?” he asked. “Is it nothing to the people of Judah that they commit these detestable sins, leading the whole nation into violence, thumbing their noses at me, and provoking my anger? Therefore, I will respond in fury. I will neither pity nor spare them. And though they cry for mercy, I will not listen.


Jeremiah 14:10-12


Thus saith the Lord unto this people, Thus have they loved to wander, they have not refrained their feet, therefore the Lord doth not accept them; he will now remember their iniquity, and visit their sins. Then said the Lord unto me, Pray not for this people for their good. When they fast, I will not hear their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and an oblation, I will not accept them: but I will consume them by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilence.


Isaiah 58:9


At that time, when you call, the Lord will answer; when you cry out, He will say, ‘Here I am.’ If you get rid of the yoke among you, the finger-pointing and malicious speaking,


Proverbs 21:13


Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard.


Psalm 66:18


If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me


Psalm 34:15-16


The eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous, and his ears are open unto their cry. The face of the Lord is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.


Hebrews 10:26-27
26, For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


1 John 2:3-4

3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:3-10

3, And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure. 4, Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5, And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6, Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.


Yep don't look good for some come Judgement day.

................


God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
John was not speaking of the Ten Commandments , he was speaking of believe in the name of the Son, and love one another.

why do insist of lying and misrepresenting Scripture? does it not bother you at all? you quote 1st John about command keeping, quote the same chapter John describes what commands he is referring to, then you do not mention the commands , only because they are not " keep the Sabbath ". how can you practice such deceit , and then talk about not sinning?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]
[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]
[/SIZE]
Luke warm you claim is partly keeping the law but not fully. "Be cold or hot. Keep all of the law or work at none of it and rely on Christ alone."

Can it be that you rely on Christ alone and know that your own works are worthless to save yourself, and you also love the Lord and as a result you obey Him. Faith and works or faith that does work, like James 2 says.

Should i rely on Christs merits and continue to purposely sin and willingly sin because His grace will continue to cover me?
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Paul answers this over and over in the epistles. Never ever do any of the apostles say 'Hey, it was great that you gave the Lord your intellectual blessing but let's get back to our work at the law'.

This is what is stated by the apostles;

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

We were made free of the law of sin and death by the Lord Jesus Christ. We are told NOT to be entangled again with that yoke of bondage.

2 Peter 3:17-18
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

If it is a sin to break the law (including the sabbath), than i should try to obey the Lord. He is my righteousness and all good comes from Him but to know it is a sin and to continue in it is wrong.
Psa 51:2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
2Co_7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Jas_4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Luke warm is to know what is right and to not do it or be half hearted about our commitment to God.
Partly for God and partly for ourselves, double minded, worldly and heavenly minded.



And when it comes to the law there is a difference between them, 10 were written by God on stone and the other laws were continually added to as they were needed and my way of knowing which laws apply today is to look at which laws were fulfilled at the cross. Jesus is the lamb and i don't need to continue to offer blood today because Jesus shed His.
IF only a few laws were going to be fulfilled by the Lord Jesus Christ why didn't He say so??? Why didn't He explain which parts He was planning on fulfilling and which parts we would have to continue to work at?

It is because He didn't come to fulfill part of the law, as you claim, but He came to fulfill ALL the law.

Romans 9:30-32
[SUP]30 [/SUP]What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

It doesn't seem fair does it? Those who actually work at their understanding of the 10 commandments don't attain to the Righteousness that is contained in the 10 commandments. But those who don't work at them but instead have faith in Christ and His Work DO attain to the Righteousness that is contained in the 10 commandments.

Its because the Commandments are spiritual but your understanding of them is carnal. You have power to follow a carnal commandment but you have no power or understanding of how to follow a spiritual command. You would have to rely solely on the One who has the Power in order to follow a spiritual command.
[SUB][/SUB]
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
=PS;3466553]
Thank you for the response, just quickly, there are unfulfilled prophesies but they will come in due course. God may have rested from his work of creation, but He neither slumbers or sleeps. Christ's aim was to fulfill the law and provide the way of redemption by grace and not by law.
This is where the Mainstream Christian franchises have led many astray. There was only one law that pertained to "Redemption". I could turn to God and Love Him, Follow His instructions that I had spent my life breaking, but it would do me no good. I am guilty of sin and the price for my guilt must be paid.

So to foreshadow what the Messiah, the God of Abraham who became flesh and blood, would do for me, God "ADDED" a law to the Laws Abraham obeyed. It was called the Levitical Priesthood in the New Testament. (Hebrews 7-10 speaks to it). This Law provided "Redemption" through sacrificial, ceremonial "Works of the Law" for remission of sin's until Jesus (The Seed) should come. These "Works of the Law" were performed by a specific bloodline of the Children of Israel called the Levites. Levi was a son od Israel. Paul speaks to this "ADDED" Law in Gal. 3. He notes that Abraham was justified "apart" from this added Law.

The deceiver has tricked "many" into believing the "works of the Law" Paul speaks to is the entire Old Testament instructions from God, and not the Law that was added to foreshadow the coming and sacrifice of the "Lamb".. This is an insidious lie that has been taught by the Mainstream Christian religious franchises for centuries.

Until Christ came a man was to bring the best of his own possession, a bullock, or goat and if he had no animal he would take his money and purchase one. This animal was then sacrificed for the atonement, justification, redemption of the man's sin.

So in effect the man "Paid" for the redemption of his sins with the best of his possessions.

After the "Seed" came, offered his blood once and for all, "changed" the Priesthood and became our High Priest we are to rely on Him, have faith in Him to cleanse us of our sins, not the Priesthood "Works of the Law". Many could not accept this "change" in the Priesthood because they "stumbled at that stumbling stone".

Rom. 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

The Mainstream Preachers of that time refused to accept Christ and His sacrifice for the redemption of sins, they continued to rely on the Levitical Priesthood ceremonial, sacrificial "works of the Law" for remission of sins and not belief or faith in the Messiah.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

This is speaking to the redemption of sins. The death we deserve being wiped away so we can start anew. Become a new man in Holiness. Not because we gave up our prize bullock to pay for our sins, but because we trusted in the instructions of the Word who became Flesh enough to "follow" Him and "Keep His Sayings". All who do this have hope.

Matt. 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


Rom. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (Of Works)

Abraham was justified without these Levitical "Works of the Law". Levi wasn't even born yet.

But to explore this truth is the beginning of the exposure and unraveling of "many" mainstream doctrines which cause those who follow them to "Transgress the Commandments of God by their religious traditions. Most people just hide their face from the true Light as Jesus said they would.

You don't have to hide from the true Light. Only Jesus saves, the Pope can not help you.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
That makes as much sense as the rest of the stuff you post and I disagree with.

We were not discussing dietary laws; but if you want to start; the same passage of Scripture Acts 15:28-29
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
KJV
that makes Sabbath keeping unnecessary makes keeping the dietary laws unnecessary as well.
You made the claim, and the Catholic church agrees with you, that Gentiles are under no obligation to honor God with respect and obedience where His Laws are concerned, namely, the 4th Commandment.

I simply pointed out that James saw fit to require the new Gentile converts to follow these 4 laws they got from the God of Abraham.

Since we know both Peter and Paul observed God's Sabbath and that the New Gentile Converts were already listening to Moses every Sabbath, it might be that the converts already knew about God's Instructions in this matter. Why would James require something from them that they were already doing?

To follow your logic James never mentioned Love your neighbor as yourself either, or to Love the Lord your God. Is that also just for the Jews? Do we throw the rest of the Bible away and use only a few sentences you approve of from Acts 15 to; " And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

So to recount, you said the Gentiles are not under any obligation to honor God with obedience in respect to His Holy Sabbath days. But are under obligation to refrain from eating a steak which is rare.

This is why a few of us question your preaching Marc, it just doesn't line up with all scripture.
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
Hello MMD,

How can you teach the Gospel when you do not know God's Word?

Amen! Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.
WHO IS ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT?

Let's look at the scriptures.......

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He says not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, AND TO YOUR SEED, WHICH IS CHRIST (Galatians 3:16)

Abraham’s seed is Israel.........

THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE (Galatians 3:28).

No explanation needed, believe God's Word, and again..........

FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED (Romans 9:6).

FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Romans 2:28-29)

God's Israel...............

Galatians 3:28-29,
THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Colossians 3:11,
WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Romans 10:11-13,
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

Romans 2:28-29,
FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY ; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel..........

Jeremiah 31:33-4,
BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Hebrews 8:10-12,
BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 10:14-17,
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND INTO THEOR MINDS WILL I WRITE THEM; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Galatians 3:29,
AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAMS SEED AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD. If you are not part of God's Israel you are not part of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:10-12).

God's Israel are those that believe the Word of God and follow it and is why Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15)

My friend it is time to leave Sunday School and believe the Word of God. Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW him who calls us out to worship him in Spirit and in truth.

Your house has been built on sifting sand and as the scriptures show great has been the fall of it.

You teach against God’s LAW and the prophets. This is something Jesus and the apostles never did. Unless you REPENT from SIN and BELIEVE the Gospel there will be no place for you and those who follow you in God’s KINGDOM.

Practicing KNOWN SIN will keep all who reject God’s GIFT out of God’s KINGDOM and the proclamation will be announced DEPART from me you who work SIN I never KNEW you (Matthew 7:23; 1 John 3:3-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Hebrews 10:26-27)

ONLY God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW HIm who calls us in LOVE to LOVE another. SIN is the transgression of God's LAW. If you CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN you will NOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

..............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
Hi MMD,

Do you know God's WORD?

Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
This is what the OP is about did you want to address the OP here? Simply repeating what the OP is about does not address the scriptures in the OP that disagree with your interpretation of the OP. Here is a summarised version. Maybe you can address this post? If you cannot address this post and the scriptures in them that disagree with your interpretation you should BELIEVE the Word of God and Follow it. SIN will keep all who practice it OUT of God's KINGDOM.

Let's look at God's Word and the scripture CONTEXT you leave out of your interpretation to see what it is really saying. This is the summarised version but please feel free to address the OP here?

COL 2:16-17

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAY(S) <plural>

The above scripture is used by the “many” to distance themselves from Gods sabbath day. But what is Col.2{16} really talking about. Let scripture interpret scripture.

(1) CONTEXT of COL 2:16 is v14. is talking about the Mosaic laws for remission of sin that were shadows pointing to Jesus; not the ten commandments of God’s Law. Nowhere are the 10 commandments mentioned in Col chapter 2.

v11-13 Shadows of Mosaic laws of circumcision of the new heart in Christ

14, BLOTTING OUT < G1813 ἐξαλείφωexaleipho (ex-a-lei'-fō) v.means to rub out, i.e. obliterate, erase>the HANDWRITING < G5498 χειρόγραφονcheirographon (chei-ro'-gra-fon) n.means something hand-written (“chirograph”), i.e. a manuscript specially, a legal document > of ORDINANCES < G1378 δόγμαdogma (d̮og'-ma) n. meansordinance;civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical laws>that was against us, WHICH WERE AGAINST US, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

v14 reads the handwriting of the ordinances that were against us; God’s LAW written on stone (10 Commandments) are not the handwriting of the ordinances written in the book that were against us . The ORDINANCES refer red to here are those written in the Mosaic book of the law that were against us. Not all the book of the law was against us. Those laws that pertained to righteousness were not against us. God’s LAW (10 Commandments) let us know what SIN was if we disobeyed them.

The Ten Commandments are not against us only the statutes and judgement in the Book of the Law in relation to when we sin were (the judgements and penalty for sin the curses for sin).

DEUT 31 [26] Take this Book of the Law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it ma y be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

DEUT 30 [19] For GOD has said, I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life an d death, BLESSINGS AND CURSES : therefo re choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: [20] That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest OBEY his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD swore unto t hy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

CONTEXT of the 2:16-17 is the CIVIL, CEREMONIAL AND ECCLESIASTIC laws contained in ORDINANCES that were against us. This is referring to the penalty for SIN as well as the fulfillment of the Mosaic laws for remission of sin that all pointed to Jesus (shadow laws). Together these were fulfilled in Christ and nailed to the cross.

MATT 27 [50], Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. [51], And, behold, the VEIL OF THE TEMPLE WAS RENT IN TWO FROM TOP TO BOTTOM; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

ISAIAH 1[10] Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.[11] To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I AM FULL OF THE BURNT OFFERINGS of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.[12] When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?[13] BRING NO MORE VAIN OBLATIONS; incense is an abomination unto me; THE NEW MOONS AND SABBATHS, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.[14] Your new moons and your APPOINTED FEASTS my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

HEBREWS 10[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. [8] Above when he said, SACRIFICE AND OFFERING AND BURNT OFFERINGS AND OFFERING FOR SIN THOU WOULDEST NOT, NEITHER HADST PLEASURE THEREIN; WHICH ARE OFFERED BY THE LAW; [9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND. [10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. [11] And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: [12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 10 explains exactly what Isaiah 1 was speaking about. He takes away the 1st covenant {the meat and drink offerings} and established the 2nd covenant {the body of Christ}

LUKE 22[19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD, which is shed for you.

New testament...blood

HEBREWS 9[1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

old covenant...blood of goats.....The meat and drink offerings

HEBREWS 10 [4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

EPHESIANS 2[15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

HEBREWS 13[9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

HEBREWS 8[2] A MINISTER OF THE SANCTUARY, AND OF THE TRUE TABERNACLE, WHICH THE LORD PITCHED AND NOT MAN. [3] For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. [4] For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: [5] WHO SERVES AS AN EXAMPLE AND SHADOW OF THE HEAVENLY THINGS, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. [6] But now hath HE HAS OBTAINED A MORE EXCELLENT MINISTRY, by how much also he is the mediator of a BETTER COVENANT, WHICH WAS ESTABLISHED ON BETTER PROMISES. [7] For if that FIRST COVENANT HAD BEEN FAULTLESS, THEN NO PLACE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SOUGHT FOR A SECOND. [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITHE THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away.

to be continued..........



 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
Continued....

COL. 2 [16]

(2) SUBJECT MATTER of COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAY(S) <plural>

Compare Col 2:16 with the annual Jewish festivals from the Mosaic laws for remission of sin...

EZEKIEL 45 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and MEAT offerings, and DRINK offerings, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

All CONTEXT and points 1-4 match perfectly. Here is a scripture, same exact order as Col.2 [16], MEAT offerings, and DRINK offerings, FEASTS, NEW MOON, and in the SABBATHS.

No doubt what so ever these 2 scriptures are speaking of the same thing. See how that on those days there was a sin offering made. The blood of Christ is now that offering. Col.2 and Zek 45 are simply speaking of the meat and drink offerings which were written in the law contained within the ORDINANCES which were to take place on Gods holy days, new moons and His sabbath days.

HEBREWS 13 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

But now we are no longer under the law of Moses concerning the meat and drink offerings of Gods holy days, new moons and the sabbaths. Jesus fulfilled the law. We are now under grace.

JOHN 6 [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

When we let scripture interpret scripture its very clear what Col.2 is speaking about. The meat and drink offerings of those days are no longer to be kept.

NUMBERS 28 [9] And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a MEAT OFFERING, mingled with oil, and the DRINK OFFERING thereof: [10] This is the burnt offering of EVERY SABBATH, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

Theres the meat and drink offerings for the sabbath days that Col.2 [16] was speaking of.

EZEKIEL 46 [6] And in the day of the NEW MOON it shall be a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish. [7] And he shall prepare a MEAT OFFERING, an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and for the lambs according as his hand shall attain unto, and an hin of oil to an ephah.

The meat offering for the new moon that was spoken of in Col.2 [16].

LEVITICUS 23 [4] These are THE FEASTS OF THE LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. [5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is THE LORD'S PASSOVER. [6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread…… [13] And the MEAT OFFERING thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the DRINK OFFERING thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.

In all the feast days (holy days) meat and drink offerings were written into the laws of commandments contained in the ordinances. The above scripture points out the holy day of passover when Jesus was crucified.

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... [9] WHICH WAS A FIGURE for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The first covenant had ORDINANCES which stood ONLY in meat and drink offerings which were a figure. A shadow

EPH.2 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; [16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

EZEKIEL 46 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

Hebrews 10 says it all. The shadow of the law was the offerings (the meat and drink offerings).

NUMBERS 19 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.

NUMBERS 18 [8] And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, BY AN ORDINANCE for ever.[9] This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: EVERY OBLATION of theirs, EVERY MEAT OFFERING of theirs, and EVERY SIN OFFERING of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons.

Above scripture confirms that the offerings are also called oblations

ISAIAH 1 [10] Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.[11] To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I AM FULL OF THE BURNT OFFERINGS of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.[12] When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?[13] BRING NO MORE VAIN OBLATIONS; incense is an abomination unto me; THE NEW MOONS AND SABBATHS, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.[14] Your new moons and your APPOINTED FEASTS my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Bring no more vain oblations in the new moons and the sabbath and feast days. WHY? Because Jesus nailed these offerings (oblations) to the cross.


HEBREWS 10 [7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me, to do thy will, O God. [8] Above when he said, SACRIFICE AND OFFERING AND BURNT OFFERINGS AND OFFERING FOR SIN THOU WOULDEST NOT, NEITHER HADST PLEASURE THEREIN; WHICH ARE OFFERED BY THE LAW; [9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND. [10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. [11] And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: [12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 10 explains exactly what Isaiah 1 was speaking about. He takes away the 1st covenant {the meat and drink offerings} and established the 2nd covenant {the body of Christ}

The new covenant is all about the blood of Christ. Not changing the law....but fulfilling the law

ZECHARIAH 9 [9] Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, THY KING COMETH UNTO THEE: HE IS JUST, AND HAVING SALVATION; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.[10] And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from river even to the ends of the earth.[11] As for thee also, BY THE BLOOD OF THY COVENANT I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water

Verse 9 definitely prophecies of the coming Jesus. Verse 11, Jesus is called the blood of thy covenant

HEBREWS 12 [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,[24] And to Jesus THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT, AND TO THE BLOOD of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

New covenant...blood

LUKE 22 [19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD, which is shed for you.

New testament...blood

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

old covenant...blood of goats.....The meat and drink offerings

HEBREWS 10 [4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

He taketh away the first {covenant}, that he may establish the second.

JOHN 6 [53] [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

And there is the 2nd

MATTHEW 5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. [18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus did not come to change or destroy the law. The sabbath is still to be kept. He came to fulfil what was written of Him in the books of the law and to END the Mosaic law for remission of SIN and the penalty of SIN in those who BELIEVE.
COL 2 is talking about NO MORE penalty and curses written in the ORDINANCES or laws for remission of SIN related to the Ceremonial/Levitical/Sacrificial laws and animal sacrifices.

Disagree? Please address all the scriptures in the post that disagree with your interpretation of 2 scriptures.

Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW him who calls us in LOVE to LOVE another. SIN will keep all who practice it OUT of God's KINGDOM.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).




 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
Even when Sabbatarians set out to worship on the Sabbath, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.
The only requirements is no work is to be done because it is a Holy day of rest set aside as God has commanded.

Exodus 20
8, Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
9, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10, But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested theSEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and if we KNOWINGLY break it like any of the other commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN (Exodus 20:1-17).

SIN will keep all who KNOWINGLY CONTINUE IN IT OUT OF GOD'S KINGDOM.

If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place (no traveling) on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).
You do indeed teach another Gospel and another Jesus my friend.

Burnt offerings

This section of your post only shows you do NOT KNOW what the OLD Covenant is and the NEW Covenant and the difference between God's LAW (10 Commandments) and the Mosaic book of the Covenant for remission of SINS which are the shadow laws pointing to Jesus (Col 2:14-17 see above already addressed). We are living in the NEW Covenant now and not living in the OLD Covenant of animal sacrifices and sin offerings which all pointed to Jesus as our one true sacrifice (Hebrews 9-10). These is also NO command in God's 4th Commandment to offer burnt offereings now is there (Ex 20:8-11)?

More supporting scripture here for those interested (Linked)


No kindling a fire

The scripture context is in relation to using fire to do work (Exodus 35:2) as no work is to be done on the Sabbath. If all preparation is done beforehand it is ok to do good on the Sabbath.

Remain in his place (No Travelling)

Now your only twisting the scriptures to try and say soemthing that it is not. The Exodus CONTEXT of Exodus 20:29 is in relation to not going out and collecting manner on the Sabbath (Ex 20:16-30). Also if your interpretation was true please why Jesus and all the Apostles travelled to the synagogue on the Sabbath?

Trading and Marketing

Of course there is not to be trading and marketing on God's Sabbath. This is the same as doing business or working on the Sabbath which is a HOLY day God has made for rest. No work is to be conducted on the Sabbath according to God's 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11).

You indeed do not KNOW the scriptures or the Word of God.

If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he keeps only part of it? If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people. Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church? The Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the Old Covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.
The scripture you quote above are all in reference to the CIVIL laws of Israel under the OLD Covenant. The same death penalty under the CIVIL laws of Israel were carried out for breaking most of the 10 Commandments (Deut 13:6-18; 1Sam 26:19; Deut 13:1-10; 17:2-5; 27:15; Deut 7:25-26; Lev 24:10-17; Exodus 31:14-15; 35:2; Lev 20:9; Deut 21:18-21; Ex 21:17; Ex 21:12-14; Lev 20; John 8:5; Ex 21:16; Deuteronomy 19:15-21)

So my friend, unless your living in the OLD Covenant in Israel do these laws apply to you? We are living in the NEW COVENANT now. The penalty for SIN however is still the same which is death but this will be carried out at when the judgements of God are given to those who reject His Word and his GIFT of salavation and choose to live a life of SIN breaking God's Commandments.

.............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Disagree with any of my rebuttal posts to you please by all means addres the posts and the scripture in them. If you cannot then you should BELIEVE and FOLLOW the WORD of God, tommorrow may be too late.

Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE AND FOLLOW HIM who calls us in LOVE to LOVE another. SIN will keep all who practice it out of God's KINGDOM.
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
Why do you sound like your jealous of the freedom we have in Christ? don't you have the same freedom?
Hello stillness,

How can you have freedom in Christ if you choose to sin against him. Jesus did not die on the cross so we are free to sin. Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins not in sin. If you continue to live a life of KNOWN UNTREPENTANT SIN you will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. SIN is the transgression of God's LAW.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the teaching of men or the Word of God?

Jesus says; Whosoever commits SIN is the servant of SIN (John 8:34) If the Son shall make you free (from SIN) you shall be free indeed (John 8:36). If you are still in your SINS then you are not free in Christ.

SIN will keep all who practice it out of God's KINGDOM.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
I simply don't consider him or you worth the time or effort I would expend by responding. When either of you make statements that might lead an ungrounded person astray I respond for their sake not yours.

I get enough likes for my posts to persuade me that many members find them worth reading.
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Somebody please tell me how you can be a Jew and a Christian at the same time. The theology of the Jews I have spoken to over the last few years is nothing like Christianity.

Thanks.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,284
6,656
113
Somebody please tell me how you can be a Jew and a Christian at the same time. The theology of the Jews I have spoken to over the last few years is nothing like Christianity.

Thanks.
that is what you see on this thread every day. people trying to convince Christians that we need to be jewish to correctly serve God.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
that is what you see on this thread every day. people trying to convince Christians that we need to be jewish to correctly serve God.
Jewish proselytizing. They should say who they are coming onto Christian forums, calling themselves Christians, flying under a false flag.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Somebody please tell me how you can be a Jew and a Christian at the same time. The theology of the Jews I have spoken to over the last few years is nothing like Christianity.

Thanks.
The answer to your question; "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
that is what you see on this thread every day. people trying to convince Christians that we need to be jewish to correctly serve God.
No, a few of us just believe in the Jesus of the Bible, and not jesus you created.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
No, a few of us just believe in the Jesus of the Bible, and not jesus you created.
Correct. I know now what the problem was with Bible Discussions. No wonder I felt like I was banging my head against a brick wall.
 
Last edited: