Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

When I read these words
"Jesus did not give requirements to own eternal life"

I wonder if the writer can read scripture and listen to Jesus? Obviously not.

"If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." Matt 19:17

To gain life you must, must, obey the commandments.
The next question was which ones. But these false teachers never get
this far because their rebellion and blindness goes so far.

And their condemnation is complete.

They believe "if you believe denying Christ denies salvation you are lost".

But then one should expect nothing more from a false teacher
because their fruit or teachings declare their allegiance, and it is not with Jesus
and His words. They think they can tell who is saved and who is not by their principle
but it is not Jesus's teaching.

Jesus's teaching is simple, do not listen to Jesus, you do not know Him.

Now ofcourse this create fireworks, because their own teaching shows they are outside
the sheep pen, and wish to establish their sheep pen is the only true place to be.

But Jesus calls us to walk like Him, in purity, righteousness, meekness, peacefully.
It is enough to hear the rebellion against this to confirm their allegiance.

Yeah some people are not honest.

What did jesus say.

For God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son, that WHOEVER believes in him, shall never perish but HASS ETERNAL LIFE.

What did Jesus say? He said do not search for food which perishes, but food which ENDURES to ETERNBAL LIFE, Which Thge son of man will give you,. And when you eat this food. You will LIVE FOREVER, NEVER HUNGER OR THIRST, NEVER DIE, HAVE ETERNAL LIFE and be RISEN ON THE LAST DAY.

What did Jesus say? The FATHER WILL is WHOEVER SEES AND BELIEVES will NEVER PERISH, BUT HAS ETERNAL LIFE>

What is obedience? This is what the Bible says

Rom 10: 16 [FONT=&quot]But they have not all [/FONT]obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?

it is obedience.

In fact, what does Jesus say?

He who believes in NOT CONDEMNED, he who does nto believe is CONDEMENED ALREADY because they have NOT BELIEVED.

this person wants to put you under law. He rejects grace, run far away from him.. before he takes you down the wide gate path with him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, we KNOW we are his if we obey his commands.

That gives the end result, NOT THE PRE REQUISITE.

Those who have faith work. Those who do not do not (although they may think they are)’’

 

[Endoscopy]

I hear ya.....what blows my mind is how many are oblivious to what this thread is actually about....how one is saved......by faith alone......and not about what happens after salvation, the process of sanctification etc.....

While works doesn't save us they are proof of our faith. The Bible states faith without works is dead. Therefore works are required to validate the faith.

 

[MHz]

I agree, here are the verses.

Jas:2:14-17:
What doth it profit,
my brethren,
though a man say he hath faith,
and have not works?
can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked,
and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them,
Depart in peace,
be ye warmed and filled;
notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body;
what doth it profit?
Even so faith,
if it hath not works,
is dead,
being alone.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Yes, we KNOW we are his if we obey his commands.

That gives the end result, NOT THE PRE REQUISITE.

Those who have faith work. Those who do not do not (although they may think they are)’’

Yeah some people are not honest.

What did jesus say.

For God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son, that WHOEVER believes in him, shall never perish but HASS ETERNAL LIFE.

What did Jesus say? He said do not search for food which perishes, but food which ENDURES to ETERNBAL LIFE, Which Thge son of man will give you,. And when you eat this food. You will LIVE FOREVER, NEVER HUNGER OR THIRST, NEVER DIE, HAVE ETERNAL LIFE and be RISEN ON THE LAST DAY.

What did Jesus say? The FATHER WILL is WHOEVER SEES AND BELIEVES will NEVER PERISH, BUT HAS ETERNAL LIFE>

What is obedience? This is what the Bible says

Rom 10: 16 [FONT=&quot]But they have not all [/FONT]obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?

it is obedience.

In fact, what does Jesus say?

He who believes in NOT CONDEMNED, he who does nto believe is CONDEMENED ALREADY because they have NOT BELIEVED.

this person wants to put you under law. He rejects grace, run far away from him.. before he takes you down the wide gate path with him.

amen brother


well said

 

[dcontroversal]

While works doesn't save us they are proof of our faith. The Bible states faith without works is dead. Therefore works are required to validate the faith.

James in context is not about salvation....and Jesus said ALL who have believed already have and done the WORKS of the FATHER......

 

[NoNameMcgee]

the context of James 2 is admonishing a group of people for showing partiality.
for treating a rich man better than a poor man.

that's the specifics 'break one part of the law and be guilty of all of it' ((in Leviticus 19 it says do not show partiality to the rich)) -- and when James says 'one of you will say, i have faith and you have works' -- guess who it is ((in the context)) that says that?
and guess who it is that would turn away a person starving and freezing to death ((the specific example of 'works' he uses)) with only words and no physical help?
would it be the person who thinks they need redemption or the person who doesn't?
who does Jesus talk about, neglecting the poor?
people who boasted of works, or people who boasted of faith?

who was rich in Jewish society?

we talking about a pharisee here? one who has become a believer?

if we are, would that pharisee believer be likely to feel justified by his works, or by his faith?

ohhh

what a lovely post brother

amen

 

[NoNameMcgee]

James in context is not about salvation....and Jesus said ALL who have believed already have and done the WORKS of the FATHER......

amen

truth...
as the scriptures confirm this

 

[MHz]

Faith for us id believing without seeing.

Joh:20:25-29:
The other disciples therefore said unto him,
We have seen the Lord.
But he said unto them,
Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails,
and put my finger into the print of the nails,
and thrust my hand into his side,
I will not believe.
And after eight days again his disciples were within,
and Thomas with them:
then came Jesus,
the doors being shut,
and stood in the midst,
and said,
Peace be unto you.
Then saith he to Thomas,
Reach hither thy finger,
and behold my hands;
and reach hither thy hand,
and thrust it into my side:
and be not faithless,
but believing.
And Thomas answered and said unto him,
My Lord and my God.
Jesus saith unto him,
Thomas,
because thou hast seen me,
thou hast believed:
blessed are they that have not seen,
and yet have believed.

There will be nothing physical found that proves God existsor it would void the book as being the gathering tool. During the Gospels the proof was shown via the 'signs following', that ended when the last one died in about 100AD. The two witness bring that level of proof back during the time the two witnesses are active. Even then Satan is there in person and he ends up with the larger group of believer until the day they are resurrected and then the tables turn forever.

 

[dcontroversal]

amen

truth...
as the scriptures confirm this

Amen...it is not that difficult to grasp......

Before God faith alone saves, justifies and seals the believer eternally in Christ
Before men the above faith can be seen by what we do...1 WORK or a million regardless
Saved produce works of every flavor both good and bad and the bible prove this
Sanctification in our life is an ongoing process of growth and maturity with successes and failures...it is subject unto the level and type of word that is taught and or incorporated into one's life....some remain immature and barely produce a thing while some produce an abundance....

 

[MHz]

amen

truth...
as the scriptures confirm this

Which ones exactly??

 

[MHz]

Amen...it is not that difficult to grasp......

Before God faith alone saves, justifies and seals the believer eternally in Christ
Before men the above faith can be seen by what we do...1 WORK or a million regardless
Saved produce works of every flavor both good and bad and the bible prove this
Sanctification in our life is an ongoing process of growth and maturity with successes and failures...it is subject unto the level and type of word that is taught and or incorporated into one's life....some remain immature and barely produce a thing while some produce an abundance....

Lots of people confess that Jesus is Lord yet they sin and persecute the ones they are supposed to be taking care of??

Lu:6:46:
And why call ye me,
Lord,
Lord,
and do not the things which I say?

M't:7:15:
Beware of false prophets,
which come to you in sheep's clothing,
but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

 

[Ralph-]

Please tell me the name of the church that has this doctrine in writing.

I want to see it clearly and explicitly stated and taught by any church/pastor that teaches..... a believer can commit all manner of sin and can live however they want.

I want to see this in writing either as a reference to a book or a link


I will be waiting......

I have a strong feeling you are distorting the message to suit your own twisted attack on the Gospel of Grace

You see, UnderGrace, when a person receives Christ and they then live any way they want they are rejecting Christ. There is no sacrifice for that sin. But many people are being deceived by this new grace movement in the church that says for the 'believer' Christ's sacrifice covers even the sin of rejecting Christ's sacrifice.

What's 'new' about this grace teaching? It's new in that it differs from the two basic grace teachings the church has traditionally believed. Calvinism says the person who lives in sin after saying they are born again was never really born again to begin with. Arminianism says the person who lives in sin after saying they are born again was either never really born again to begin with or lost their salvation (their living in sin being the evidence of them being not born again).

The new grace doctrine in the church says not even going back to being an unbeliever can cause the person who once believed to forfeit their salvation. Works mean nothing. They neither show you to be saved, or unsaved. It's the believing that you did in the past in a moment of time that matters. If anything else mattered, even continuing to believe, that would be a works gospel. That is the new grace doctrine destroying the assembly. Everybody who thinks they can live in sin and it doesn't matter to salvation is embracing the new grace doctrine, whether they know they are or not.

UnderGrace, eternally-grateful, stonesoffire, decontroversal, Rosemaryx, Lucy-Pevensie, ljs:

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseverance_of_the_saints#Free_Grace_doctrine

The Free Grace or non-traditional Calvinist doctrine has been espoused by Charles Stanley, Norman Geisler, Zane C. Hodges, Bill Bright, and others. This view, like the traditional Calvinist view, emphasizes that people are saved purely by an act of divine grace that does not depend at all on the deeds of the individual, and for that reason, advocates insist that nothing the person can do can affect his or her salvation.
The Free Grace doctrine views the person's character and life after receiving the gift of salvation as independent from the gift itself, which is the main point of differentiation from the traditional Calvinist view, or, in other words, it asserts that justification (that is, being declared righteous before God on account of Christ) does not necessarily result in sanctification (that is, a progressively more righteous life). Charles Stanley, pastor of Atlanta's megachurch First Baptist and a television evangelist, has written that the doctrine of eternal security of the believer persuaded him years ago to leave his familial Pentecostalism and become a Southern Baptist. He sums up his deep conviction that salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone when he claims, "Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy… believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation."[SUP][6][/SUP] For example, Stanley writes:

Look at that verse [John 3:18] and answer this question: According to Jesus, what must a person do to keep from being judged for sin? Must he stop doing something? Must he promise to stop doing something? Must he have never done something? The answer is so simple that many stumble all over it without ever seeing it. All Jesus requires is that the individual "believe in" Him.
— Charles Stanley[SUP][6][/SUP] (p. 67).
​

In a chapter entitled "For Those Who Stop Believing", he says, "The Bible clearly teaches that God's love for His people is of such magnitude that even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand (p. 74)." A little later, Stanley also writes: "You and I are not saved because we have an enduring faith. We are saved because at a moment in time we expressed faith in our enduring Lord" (p. 80).


Now maybe you all can see you have been pushing Freegrace doctrine in this thread.......and getting away with it.

Do yourself a favor and at least go back to traditional 'P' once saved always saved. At least that doctrine doesn't have people living in sin and them still being saved.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Which ones exactly??

imputed righteousness
Romans
Chapter 4

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

________

ephesians 2


7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ

_______

Philippians 3

1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

_________
romans 8
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.


________

1 John 3
3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

_______

romans 3


19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith
_______________________

To all who believe.... Doesn't fade

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 11:29 - For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.

John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:


1 John Chapter 5

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

__________

food for throught to those who think their salvation comes down to their actions apart from faith in Him

a saved believer cannot actually cease to believe

they are a new creature....

born again


those who believe of God and even for a time retain knowledge of Him
and then fall away

never believed IN Him

and He never placed the new heart and spirit in them
or they surely would have continued in faith

______________
Romans 1:28-29

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

________
1 john

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


______________


Hebrews 6
6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

___________

there are those who hear the call

but are not chosen

they were not born again or they no doubt would have continued in faith

__________

proof of tasting the Holy spirit but not being born again BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF



7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Philippians 1:6
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ


__________

once you are born again
His incorruptible seed remains in you....

1 peter
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


________

1 peter

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.


WORDS FROM JESUS
John 6
26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

double bump for you

 

[dcontroversal]

Lots of people confess that Jesus is Lord yet they sin and persecute the ones they are supposed to be taking care of??

Lu:6:46:
And why call ye me,
Lord,
Lord,
and do not the things which I say?

M't:7:15:
Beware of false prophets,
which come to you in sheep's clothing,
but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

So what, that does not negate the truth of what I posted....Plenteous in number will also come before God expecting to enter based upon their works in his name.......he never knew them which means they were never saved to begin with......the word MANY = PLENTEOUS IN NUMBER.....most religions push Cainology and their works.......to gain, keep, top off or facilitate salvation....false...

 

[Ralph-]

disregarding the chastening and new heart again?
i just reminded you ralph

If a saved person CAN'T decide to live in sin why do you say God will just kill them if they do (and they will still be saved)?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

If a saved person CAN'T decide to live in sin why do you say God will just kill them if they do (and they will still be saved)?

McGee, Deek, Joe, Lucy, PennEd, Eternally-grateful, Budman,

Let's put an end to this right now.

Can a person who puts their trust in Christ then live any way they want and they still be saved?

Yes, or no?

anyone with a new heart will only want to live for God

when they fall short
or act in the flesh
yeah they are still saved


if you still want to live a sinful life

id suggest to examine yourself

because that doesnt sound like a new heart to me

and thats what God examines...

not your works


_____________
my answer to your question

youre disregarding the new heart and spirit He places in you when youre born again

also the fact God chastens His children


yes if you truely believe and are born of God and He began His work in you
your life does not effect your salvation regardless how you live


He knows His sheep

so the record shows

when ralph implies i said born again believers may want to live in sin

its a lie

i said they will ONLY want to live for God when He places a new heart in them.....

then he deleted the part of our second argument when i called out his strawman

im done talking to you for now

all you do is lie and twist words

your fruits stink like poo from all the over here

 

[Endoscopy]

In regards to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION.

The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

Paul talks about the problem he and all Christians face.

Romans 7 NIV

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

 

[UnderGrace]

Where in this passage are believers instructed to go lead live a life of sin? That is not want is being stated at all.

Pay attention!!!

To say we are saved by grace through faith and therefore declared to be in a justified position by God is not to teach go and sin.

Stop the false accusations and making false equations

UnderGrace, eternally-grateful, stonesoffire, decontroversal, Rosemaryx, Lucy-Pevensie, ljs:

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseverance_of_the_saints#Free_Grace_doctrine

The Free Grace or non-traditional Calvinist doctrine has been espoused by Charles Stanley, Norman Geisler, Zane C. Hodges, Bill Bright, and others. This view, like the traditional Calvinist view, emphasizes that people are saved purely by an act of divine grace that does not depend at all on the deeds of the individual, and for that reason, advocates insist that nothing the person can do can affect his or her salvation.
The Free Grace doctrine views the person's character and life after receiving the gift of salvation as independent from the gift itself, which is the main point of differentiation from the traditional Calvinist view, or, in other words, it asserts that justification (that is, being declared righteous before God on account of Christ) does not necessarily result in sanctification (that is, a progressively more righteous life). Charles Stanley, pastor of Atlanta's megachurch First Baptist and a television evangelist, has written that the doctrine of eternal security of the believer persuaded him years ago to leave his familial Pentecostalism and become a Southern Baptist. He sums up his deep conviction that salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone when he claims, "Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy… believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation."[SUP][6][/SUP] For example, Stanley writes:

Look at that verse [John 3:18] and answer this question: According to Jesus, what must a person do to keep from being judged for sin? Must he stop doing something? Must he promise to stop doing something? Must he have never done something? The answer is so simple that many stumble all over it without ever seeing it. All Jesus requires is that the individual "believe in" Him.
— Charles Stanley[SUP][6][/SUP] (p. 67).
​

In a chapter entitled "For Those Who Stop Believing", he says, "The Bible clearly teaches that God's love for His people is of such magnitude that even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand (p. 74)." A little later, Stanley also writes: "You and I are not saved because we have an enduring faith. We are saved because at a moment in time we expressed faith in our enduring Lord" (p. 80).


Now maybe you all can see you have been pushing Freegrace doctrine in this thread.......and getting away with it.

Do yourself a favor and at least go back to traditional 'P' once saved always saved. At least that doctrine doesn't have people living in sin and them still being saved.

 

[dcontroversal]

Where in this passage are believers instructed to go lead live a life of sin? That is not want is being stated at all.

Pay attention!!!

To say we are saved by grace through faith and therefore declared to be in a justified position by God is not to teach go and sin.

Stop the false accusations and making false equations

Amen....instead of signs, signs nothing but signs saying don't do this don't do that can't you read the signs....

substitute lies for signs and see for read and you have his modus operandi...