Not By Works
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R
False. I do not believe that. You have to be saved ahead of time in order to be saved from the fire when Jesus comes back. Your works show if you are saved and ready NOW for his appearing or not.
That much you have right.
But it doesn't matter whether you never had salvation or lost it if you are not saved when Jesus comes back. You will be destroyed either way. Unsaved people do not inherit the kingdom of God.
No, I do not believe that.
Only unbelief can forfeit your salvation.
True.
Unbelievers will not enter into the kingdom when Jesus comes back.
No.
One is to cling in faith to the One who keeps them saved.
When you say you CAN live in slavery to sin and be saved at the same time you are in fact pushing a lifestyle of sin.
If/when we Christians have our heads on the chopping block waiting to see if we're going to deny Christ or not, those who are sure sin/unbelief does not matter are going to be the ones who will deny Christ to save their necks. Why wouldn't they if they really believe that it doesn't matter? Well, it does matter.
That much you have right.
But it doesn't matter whether you never had salvation or lost it if you are not saved when Jesus comes back. You will be destroyed either way. Unsaved people do not inherit the kingdom of God.
No, I do not believe that.
Only unbelief can forfeit your salvation.
True.
Unbelievers will not enter into the kingdom when Jesus comes back.
No.
One is to cling in faith to the One who keeps them saved.
When you say you CAN live in slavery to sin and be saved at the same time you are in fact pushing a lifestyle of sin.
If/when we Christians have our heads on the chopping block waiting to see if we're going to deny Christ or not, those who are sure sin/unbelief does not matter are going to be the ones who will deny Christ to save their necks. Why wouldn't they if they really believe that it doesn't matter? Well, it does matter.
R
e. He believes he can practice sin by incessantly lying about others and still make it in, but others cannot. 
Just the fact that you keep harassing me about it shows me I can not trust you as a genuine brother in the faith. Stop harassing me and prove to me you have the Spirit of God in you. Can you do that? I'm betting no.
absolutely it matters how a person Lives when they come to Jesus. Paul as many refuse to accept taught it very very clearly
paul has established in this letter your saved by Grace, included in the inheritance all by Grace then to the same church in the same letter he explains as he does in His epistles
galatians 5 " This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; ( this tells you then the works of the flesh)Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. <<<<<< that IS salvation)22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
this not a one time thing but a structure of pauls doctrine all the way through, Just Like Jesus. it matters everything How we Live in Christ. we dont have to be perfect, we do have to set our minds and Hearts, to the right things and strive for those rather than omitting it based on a line from the same letter that explains yes what you do now, matters greatly and will determine where eternal Life is spent.
when you are talking about the Kingdom of God" you are talking about the true salvation offered of God. either inherit Gods Kingdom, or dont is the only offer that exists. and as paul makes very clear, those in the church who continue living in sinful actions such as paul plainly states here One might say " what you do has nothing to do with it"
Yet paul is saying to the churcch " those who
Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
notice pauls list there, those are actions and thoughts that the believer participates in. simply paul is saying wuite the opposite, that How you live in Christ, can exclude you from the Kingdom. thats pretty relevant stuff take a look at pauls epistles around half way through toward the end, they are structured the same way as paul says here its something he was warning them about all along, that thier actions do matter, and not to misunderstand His doctrine regarding grace.
Grace does not change sin and righteousness or thier consequences, it is meant to teach people to repent of sin and walk in he ways of God, not later but now in this life this world while we wait. Grace saves because it ha the power tochange sinners lost to saints saved.
in the end sinners do the deeds of thier master, and Gods Children do the deeds of thier Father. God is just so the one acting evil upon another, should not lose sight of His soveriengty, and think teice about re creating things He set forth and labeling it salvation.
the word " Grace" is so over interpreted and misapplied to the point it has changed whether people are supposed to believe and obey God????
thats not where Gods grace goes.
Only part of this post is true, & that's
Thank you for a small bit of accidental honesty.
After that, though, you project yourself on him, accusing him of doing everything you do.
Ralph's not blameless though. He's the only one keeping this thread alive.
Ralph, you're either a glutton for punishment, or you're really on DC's team, playing the losing opposition.
My money's on the latter.
After that, though, you project yourself on him, accusing him of doing everything you do.
Ralph's not blameless though. He's the only one keeping this thread alive.
Ralph, you're either a glutton for punishment, or you're really on DC's team, playing the losing opposition.
My money's on the latter.
N
imputed righteousness
Romans
Chapter 4
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
________
ephesians 2
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ
_______
Philippians 3
1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
_________
romans 8
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
________
1 John 3
3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
_______
romans 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith
_______________________
To all who believe.... Doesn't fade
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 11:29 - For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.
John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
1 John Chapter 5
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
__________
food for throught to those who think their salvation comes down to their actions apart from faith in Him
Romans
Chapter 4
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
________
ephesians 2
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ
_______
Philippians 3
1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
_________
romans 8
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
________
1 John 3
3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
_______
romans 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith
_______________________
To all who believe.... Doesn't fade
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 11:29 - For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.
John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
1 John Chapter 5
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
__________
food for throught to those who think their salvation comes down to their actions apart from faith in Him
Anyone can say that.
Just like anyone can start a straw man argument and blame another of something they didn't do.
It really only takes an afternoon to watch this thread to see the truth.
Unsaved people can't put on a consistent show of love. They have waay too much fruits of sin in them to keep the act going.
Dear readers, don't be tricked into believing that "if that's the way christians are, I don't want to be a part of it."
This isn't the way christians are.
Backsliders are real. Christians have been known to completely rebel from God & apostatize.
We're living right now in the Falling Away of the church.
Sinners can't fall away when they're already on the bottom.
"You'll know them by their fruits."
Just like anyone can start a straw man argument and blame another of something they didn't do.
It really only takes an afternoon to watch this thread to see the truth.
Unsaved people can't put on a consistent show of love. They have waay too much fruits of sin in them to keep the act going.
Dear readers, don't be tricked into believing that "if that's the way christians are, I don't want to be a part of it."
This isn't the way christians are.
Backsliders are real. Christians have been known to completely rebel from God & apostatize.
We're living right now in the Falling Away of the church.
Sinners can't fall away when they're already on the bottom.
"You'll know them by their fruits."
Hebrews 6:4-6 (ESV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP] and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
Hebrews 6:4-6 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP] and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP] and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
Hebrews 6:4-6 (NIV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP] who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, [SUP]6 [/SUP] if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Hebrews 6:4-6 (NLT)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP] who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come— [SUP]6 [/SUP] and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP] and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
Hebrews 6:4-6 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP] and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP] and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
Hebrews 6:4-6 (NIV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP] who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, [SUP]6 [/SUP] if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Hebrews 6:4-6 (NLT)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP] who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come— [SUP]6 [/SUP] and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.
