Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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R
The new grace doctrine in the church is the new once saved always saved doctrine. You can't even see it's opposed to your Calvinist doctrine.
Calvinism is on it's way out. Now the person living in sin is saved just as long as he 'got saved' somewhere in the past. In Calvinism, that person was never saved to begin with. In Arminianism, he either was never saved to begin with, or lost his salvation.
Calvinism is on it's way out. Now the person living in sin is saved just as long as he 'got saved' somewhere in the past. In Calvinism, that person was never saved to begin with. In Arminianism, he either was never saved to begin with, or lost his salvation.
Hello friend....I have never met a believer that thinks that they now have a "liscense to sin" Moreover..I have never met a happy believer who is living in sin (by the way..we all sin, and will sin until we die) God has a way of keeping His kids close..we undergo the sanctification process...none, get saved and are perfected..(practically) at that moment.. Salvation is a gift, it is grace..if you have to earn it..or work to keep it..then it is no longer a gift. Again, Jesus was the only perfect person..He lived the perfect life for us..the life that we cannot live... "self-righteousness" is also a sin..right? Jesus only got angry at the Pharasies and at the money-changers.(those tring to cash-in on the things of God....
R
No, it means I am not a slave to sin anymore.
Slaves do not inherit the kingdom-Galatians 4:7
So if you want to defend the person still living in and enslaved by sin (which is you since you say there is no difference between sinning and living in sin) then you have no choice but to accept the fact that you will not inherit the kingdom. Slaves do not inherit the estate. Paul said so, not me.
I never have.
I've told you over and over and over it's about whether or not you are living in sin. It's not about 'x' number of sins. It's about if you have a new personality and new habits or not.
Only if you are in unbelief and living in and enslaved by the flesh. That's the only time sin(s) can send you straight to the fire when Jesus comes back. As long as you're not in unbelief you are not going straight to the lake of fire when Jesus comes back.
Actually, what we have is a new nature in a flesh body. The old nature, the old mind deep within (not our conscious mind), was replaced by the new nature. What remains is the flesh through which desires tempt us to sin.
"if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!"-2 Corinthians 5:17
What remains is the flesh.
Slaves do not inherit the kingdom-Galatians 4:7
So if you want to defend the person still living in and enslaved by sin (which is you since you say there is no difference between sinning and living in sin) then you have no choice but to accept the fact that you will not inherit the kingdom. Slaves do not inherit the estate. Paul said so, not me.
I never have.
I've told you over and over and over it's about whether or not you are living in sin. It's not about 'x' number of sins. It's about if you have a new personality and new habits or not.
Only if you are in unbelief and living in and enslaved by the flesh. That's the only time sin(s) can send you straight to the fire when Jesus comes back. As long as you're not in unbelief you are not going straight to the lake of fire when Jesus comes back.
Actually, what we have is a new nature in a flesh body. The old nature, the old mind deep within (not our conscious mind), was replaced by the new nature. What remains is the flesh through which desires tempt us to sin.
"if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!"-2 Corinthians 5:17
What remains is the flesh.
R
Instead of these meaningless posts you should instead be proving that saying grace is the reason you can live anyway you want after believing and you are saved nonetheless is not saying grace is a license to sin. That's what you need to prove. You have not done that. You have not even attempted to do that. All you do is rebut with insults and belittling. As if that proves your argument.
Of course, the first thought going through your mind right now is you do not say the believer is to live anyway he wants. And that's fine. But what you are saying is HE CAN live any way he wants and he will still be saved. That's saying grace is a license to sin whether you want to admit it or not.
Of course, the first thought going through your mind right now is you do not say the believer is to live anyway he wants. And that's fine. But what you are saying is HE CAN live any way he wants and he will still be saved. That's saying grace is a license to sin whether you want to admit it or not.
R
Yes you have. Don't think you haven't just because they won't admit that's what their belief about being able to live in sin and still be saved is.
That's the point I'm making.
Believers ultimately don't live in sin. UNBELIEVERS DO.
The person who insists that it doesn't matter how they live after believing, and they then live any way they want, is at the end of the day AN UNBELIEVER. They will be rejected when Jesus comes back. The deceit is they think they can be saved and live in sin at the same time. John and Paul both said, DO NOT BE DECEIVED. The person who lives in sin is NOT SAVED.
Yes we will, but are you a SLAVE to sin? That is the difference between being duped into sin as a believer (and we all are sooner or later) and living in it freely in unbelief. The latter will go to the fire when Jesus comes back. The former has the covering of Christ's blood to rescue them from the coming wrath.
And who said your works being the evidence of your saved status means you're trying to earn and keep your salvation?
So having works as the evidence of your salvation is you being self righteous? Really?
I'm sinning the sin of self righteousness when I have works that validate me as being freed from sin through salvation in Christ?
That's the point I'm making.
Believers ultimately don't live in sin. UNBELIEVERS DO.
The person who insists that it doesn't matter how they live after believing, and they then live any way they want, is at the end of the day AN UNBELIEVER. They will be rejected when Jesus comes back. The deceit is they think they can be saved and live in sin at the same time. John and Paul both said, DO NOT BE DECEIVED. The person who lives in sin is NOT SAVED.
Yes we will, but are you a SLAVE to sin? That is the difference between being duped into sin as a believer (and we all are sooner or later) and living in it freely in unbelief. The latter will go to the fire when Jesus comes back. The former has the covering of Christ's blood to rescue them from the coming wrath.
And who said your works being the evidence of your saved status means you're trying to earn and keep your salvation?
So having works as the evidence of your salvation is you being self righteous? Really?
I'm sinning the sin of self righteousness when I have works that validate me as being freed from sin through salvation in Christ?
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V
fair enough and I did not see those posts, this thread moves far to fast. Until last night I had not logged on for 4 days. I think ralph is missing the fact, the Marine, has never said he believes grace is a license to sin. Yet Ralph ignores that, and says the Marine does think grace is a license to sin because he disagrees with his theology.
His rub is I reject his dogma that states the following
a. No one is saved until the end when God sees their works........false
b. He believes salvation can be lost or forfeit by sin...................false
c. He believes salvation can be forfeit by losing faith..................false
d. He believes one must KEEP themselves saved..........................false
HE and those like him have absolutely NO biblical argument to prove their belief.....so....they ACCUSE and attribute this false narrative that we believe and push a lifestyle of sin......
a. No one is saved until the end when God sees their works........false
b. He believes salvation can be lost or forfeit by sin...................false
c. He believes salvation can be forfeit by losing faith..................false
d. He believes one must KEEP themselves saved..........................false
HE and those like him have absolutely NO biblical argument to prove their belief.....so....they ACCUSE and attribute this false narrative that we believe and push a lifestyle of sin......
R
The rub is he says we CAN live in a lifestyle of sin and be saved because works don't matter to salvation.
Then he'll talk about how the believer WILL have works (which he doesn't seem to realize, makes works required or else you're not saved because believers WILL have works). So works do matter. But then back he'll go to the argument that you don't have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back, and round and round and round he will go.
Then he'll talk about how the believer WILL have works (which he doesn't seem to realize, makes works required or else you're not saved because believers WILL have works). So works do matter. But then back he'll go to the argument that you don't have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back, and round and round and round he will go.
R
No, you are saved the moment you believe in the blood of Christ as payment for your sins.
Just because you can't tell the difference between the 'P' in TULIP and the new 'once saved always saved' that you've been deceived and taken captive by doesn't mean there is no difference between them. It means you don't know enough about this subject to know the difference.
Just because you can't tell the difference between the 'P' in TULIP and the new 'once saved always saved' that you've been deceived and taken captive by doesn't mean there is no difference between them. It means you don't know enough about this subject to know the difference.
