Not By Works
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Hi Ann, glad you joined us here. There's not a lot of people from our generation who participate in this thread. So this is great.
What I read from this post is that the child, born out of fornicating parents, is paying the price for the sin of their parents?
This is why I really love the gospel. The good news is, Jesus IS the ONLY one who CAN and who HAS paid the price for every sin. There's a lot more things that happened at the Cross than what meets the eye.
At the Cross, Jesus became sin (when He did no sin, knew no sin and in Whom is no sin). Why, and how is it even possible for Him to become sin? Because, He received our sins (our parents' included).
By the same token, at the Cross, all of our sins, our sinfulness our very sin nature was taken away from us. Taken to where? All to Jesus.
The wages of sin is death. Jesus' died on the Cross for our sin. But it doesn't stop there. He was RAISED back to life. Why? Did God, the Father, took pity on Jesus that He raised Him back to life after having paid the price for man's sin? No.
Jesus was raised for our justification. It means the job is done. The payment is complete and GOD IS SATISFIED. The judgement has been paid in full (OVERPAID, actually, because it cost Him HIS SON).
There is now a bridge the crosses the great divide between us and the perfect, holy and righteous God. Jesus is the way.
Why does this matter? When Jesus became our sin, you know what happened to us?
We became the righteousness of God in Christ. We have been declared RIGHTEOUS and JUSTIFIED. What does this mean? It means God no longer requires you to pay for your sin or your parents' or whoever. Jesus did that FOR YOU. Because He loves YOU. This is how Jesus sets you free.
You know how you can get this righteousness? The same thing that happened at the Cross, you receive Jesus as your righteousness. This is the gospel, Ann.
What I read from this post is that the child, born out of fornicating parents, is paying the price for the sin of their parents?
This is why I really love the gospel. The good news is, Jesus IS the ONLY one who CAN and who HAS paid the price for every sin. There's a lot more things that happened at the Cross than what meets the eye.
At the Cross, Jesus became sin (when He did no sin, knew no sin and in Whom is no sin). Why, and how is it even possible for Him to become sin? Because, He received our sins (our parents' included).
By the same token, at the Cross, all of our sins, our sinfulness our very sin nature was taken away from us. Taken to where? All to Jesus.
The wages of sin is death. Jesus' died on the Cross for our sin. But it doesn't stop there. He was RAISED back to life. Why? Did God, the Father, took pity on Jesus that He raised Him back to life after having paid the price for man's sin? No.
Jesus was raised for our justification. It means the job is done. The payment is complete and GOD IS SATISFIED. The judgement has been paid in full (OVERPAID, actually, because it cost Him HIS SON).
There is now a bridge the crosses the great divide between us and the perfect, holy and righteous God. Jesus is the way.
Why does this matter? When Jesus became our sin, you know what happened to us?
We became the righteousness of God in Christ. We have been declared RIGHTEOUS and JUSTIFIED. What does this mean? It means God no longer requires you to pay for your sin or your parents' or whoever. Jesus did that FOR YOU. Because He loves YOU. This is how Jesus sets you free.
You know how you can get this righteousness? The same thing that happened at the Cross, you receive Jesus as your righteousness. This is the gospel, Ann.
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Hebrews 9:15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
Matthew 6:12-15 Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’ For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Matthew 6:12-15 Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’ For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
R
Not two natures in the same person. John is talking about two distinct people. Those who have eternal life in them and those who do not.
14We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. 15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."-1 John 3:14-15
The person who loves his brother has eternal life. The person who hates his brother does not have eternal life in themselves.
John and Paul both say the person who does not live for God is not saved. The new grace doctrine in the church says that doesn't matter because salvation is not by works.
14We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. 15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."-1 John 3:14-15
The person who loves his brother has eternal life. The person who hates his brother does not have eternal life in themselves.
John and Paul both say the person who does not live for God is not saved. The new grace doctrine in the church says that doesn't matter because salvation is not by works.
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Ridiculous.
That makes no sense when John says those born again will not, nor can, sin.
And Paul goes into great depth about the two natures in Romans 7:
"I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it." (verses 15-20)
That makes no sense when John says those born again will not, nor can, sin.
And Paul goes into great depth about the two natures in Romans 7:
"I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it." (verses 15-20)
R
Lot's of unsaved people say they have the witness of the Spirit that they are saved. If it's true that you really have passed from death to life you not only would have the witness of the Spirit, you will also have the witness of your life:
"We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. 15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."-1 John 3:14-15
No question about that.
Just because works are the sign of salvation doesn't have to mean works are that person trying to save themselves. The very fact that works can only be done through Christ is what makes works, not just a feeling inside, the sign that proves you are saved.
That's right.
But if we practice sin and have no obedience to God's command to love in us yet claim we are saved we make ourselves out to be a liar.
3By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar"-1 John 2:3-4
You have to have more than the witness of the Spirit to know you are genuinely saved. You have to have the new life to go along with it. Only people who no longer live unchanged in their old lives know they are saved 'for sure' and are ready to face Christ when he returns. Works are how we make our calling and election sure to ourselves and others. Anybody can say they are saved, and they do, but only those attached to the life giving vine in salvation can bear fruit. For apart from him you can do nothing. Works do matter. Saved people have works, or else they show they are not really attached to the vine in salvation.
"We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. 15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."-1 John 3:14-15
No question about that.
Just because works are the sign of salvation doesn't have to mean works are that person trying to save themselves. The very fact that works can only be done through Christ is what makes works, not just a feeling inside, the sign that proves you are saved.
That's right.
But if we practice sin and have no obedience to God's command to love in us yet claim we are saved we make ourselves out to be a liar.
3By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar"-1 John 2:3-4
You have to have more than the witness of the Spirit to know you are genuinely saved. You have to have the new life to go along with it. Only people who no longer live unchanged in their old lives know they are saved 'for sure' and are ready to face Christ when he returns. Works are how we make our calling and election sure to ourselves and others. Anybody can say they are saved, and they do, but only those attached to the life giving vine in salvation can bear fruit. For apart from him you can do nothing. Works do matter. Saved people have works, or else they show they are not really attached to the vine in salvation.
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Actually he says....depart from me you workers of iniquity<----to those who constantly push their works as proof of their right to enter the kingdom........
FAITH ALONE is what saves a MAN....nothing attached to gain eternal life.......
HE that BELIEVES though he were dead YET SHALL HE LIVE
LOST--->hears the word---->exercises FAITH ALONE--->SAVED eternally---->placed in the VINE--->results vary!
FAITH ALONE is what saves a MAN....nothing attached to gain eternal life.......
HE that BELIEVES though he were dead YET SHALL HE LIVE
LOST--->hears the word---->exercises FAITH ALONE--->SAVED eternally---->placed in the VINE--->results vary!
Jesus must have been ignorant or stupid and misinformed when he told his saved disciples who could not pray with him that the spirit is indeed willing but the flesh is weak....you believe this guy.......the truth is simple.....the natural man cannot receive, understand, spiritually discern the word of GOD and there is only one correct message that brings eternal salvation...the point is obvious
You openly admit you sin......so.....which nature leads you to sin when you do sin? Your answer below TOTALLY contradicts the things you say......YOU OPENLY ADMIT SIN and then argue below that JOHN is speaking of two DIFFERENT distinct PEOPLE those who have ETERNAL LIFE and THOSE WHO DO NOT<---and your inference is that those who SIN are not saved......SO, by your own logic and admission of sin you are not SAVED.....the exact type of contradiction that comes fro the workers for......right here folks in black and white for all to see......Budman is right.....RALPH is not
Budman's POST
Originally Posted by Budman
We have the old man while we are still in the flesh. That's why, we will physically die. The new nature in us cannot sin, and that's why we will live eternally with God in heaven (or the new earth - depending on the timing).
The new man is what makes us sinless - the nature of Jesus imputed to us. That's how God call rule we are holy, righteous, and perfect - because that's what Jesus is.
The old man (our flesh) still sins, and that's how we still can sin and why God chastens us.
One person = two natures.
YOUR FIRST REPLY ---->(RALPH'S REPLY
Budman's POST
We have the old man while we are still in the flesh. That's why, we will physically die. The new nature in us cannot sin, and that's why we will live eternally with God in heaven (or the new earth - depending on the timing).
The new man is what makes us sinless - the nature of Jesus imputed to us. That's how God call rule we are holy, righteous, and perfect - because that's what Jesus is.
The old man (our flesh) still sins, and that's how we still can sin and why God chastens us.
One person = two natures.
YOUR FIRST REPLY ---->(RALPH'S REPLY
Not two natures in the same person. John is talking about two distinct people. Those who have eternal life in them and those who do not.
