Not By Works
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R
See, if you indulge immorality, drunkenness, greed, love of the world, etc., and you're getting away with it in the name of this 'works don't matter' theology in the church today, you are in fact showing yourself to not be saved. You are not showing that theology to be true, you are showing yourself to be what the Bible says.......you're not saved.
Sinking in yet, people?
Sinking in yet, people?
This made me think.
If John calls those who say they know God yet walk in disobedience and deny Jesus's words
apply them liars, we equally can say the same thing.
If one thinks this through carefully a fair few people on these forums are liars, in a real biblical
sense, as described by John.
It is also strange how easily some use this phrase of lying but are unable to specify what about.
The sad reality is when people say one thing, and then deny it soon after.
If John calls those who say they know God yet walk in disobedience and deny Jesus's words
apply them liars, we equally can say the same thing.
If one thinks this through carefully a fair few people on these forums are liars, in a real biblical
sense, as described by John.
It is also strange how easily some use this phrase of lying but are unable to specify what about.
The sad reality is when people say one thing, and then deny it soon after.
Nobody buys your drivel and nobody teaches the drivel you constantly accuse of....you know...everybody heard about you and how you were going to set us all straight....the funny thing....what you mouth is no different than all those before you...You have nothing new to offer....No one believes, teaches or promotes what you constantly accuse of....
At the end of the day.....those who embrace works as part of their salvation have no grounds to stand on....the ONLY THING YOU ALL HAVE is this false accusation that we teach a live as you wish, sinful lifestyle because we rightly teach salvation is eternal and based upon faith.....
In other words.....your view is irrelevant.....it has no basis of accuracy because NO one teaches what you say we teach....
For all reading this thread....NO ONE teaches what the workers for accuse us of....it is their only defense against the correct message found in the word....JESUS saves ALL eternally by faith alone...we have ALL said that those who are genuinely saved by faith will have evidence of said salvation and that any work or fruit is the result of the faith and salvation one already possesses in CHRIST and that ALL who walk contrary will be chastened BY GOD.....
Ignore the many accusatory, false posts that get pushed by Ralph and the other working for Cainologists.....their entire stance against this thread is based upon unfounded and false accusations........
At the end of the day.....those who embrace works as part of their salvation have no grounds to stand on....the ONLY THING YOU ALL HAVE is this false accusation that we teach a live as you wish, sinful lifestyle because we rightly teach salvation is eternal and based upon faith.....
In other words.....your view is irrelevant.....it has no basis of accuracy because NO one teaches what you say we teach....
For all reading this thread....NO ONE teaches what the workers for accuse us of....it is their only defense against the correct message found in the word....JESUS saves ALL eternally by faith alone...we have ALL said that those who are genuinely saved by faith will have evidence of said salvation and that any work or fruit is the result of the faith and salvation one already possesses in CHRIST and that ALL who walk contrary will be chastened BY GOD.....
Ignore the many accusatory, false posts that get pushed by Ralph and the other working for Cainologists.....their entire stance against this thread is based upon unfounded and false accusations........
I don't think this teaching is what God had in mind EG.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Eternal life is not given to you until the end. IF one continues in His Goodness,
Rom. 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Gal. 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal. 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Heb. 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
1 Pet. 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
WE are to be diligent and "Take heed" that the "many" who come in Christ's Name don't deceive us BECAUSE we CAN BE TRICKED. Because We can "turn away", because we CAN "Be cut off".
The serpent teaches we Can't loose life EG, not the God of the Bible. Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Are you preaching you already have eternal life? That you don't have to "endure" to the end? That you don't have to be "diligent"? That you don't have to "Take Heed"? That you don't have to "continue" in His Goodness.
Rom. 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Is Paul peaching that I am to actually do something here, a "work"? If I already have been given Immortality, which I can not loose as you preach, then why am I to continue to seek it in "well Doing"? Doesn't Jesus do all the "well doing" for me?
I don't know EG.
You preach that God created instructions so burdensome, so grievous, so many in number that it is impossible to keep them, and that God did this on purpose, then turned around and killed tens of thousands of people for not keeping these laws He created too burdensome to follow. Could this unjust God you preach also give you eternal life then take it away?
There is another option though. Maybe, just maybe the Bible is truth. I know it's a long shot, but maybe man doesn't have immortality yet as the Bible teaches and men won't receive it until after Jesus comes back and gives this gift to them. Maybe the scriptures are right and your preaching is wrong. Maybe God is true and MAN is the liar. Maybe we are to have faith that God "WIIL GIVE us eternal life as it is written, IF we continue to follow His Sayings which by any objective view should be considered "Good", don't you think?
Col. 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
You should re-think this one EG.
I have a question about what constitutes being hypocritical for a believer. In fact several.
1. Is it hypocritical to present self as young when in fact you are old? Or vice versa?
2. What about being a man when woman? Or vice versa?
Why would someone do that?
3. What about being banned but continually come back under another profile?
4. How about flirting?
5. Why would men pull women aside in pm's in order to "teach" when we have the whole discussion board?
6. Making oneself greater in the eyes of another?
7. And my favorite gripe...coming alongside one as a friend, just to gain info in order to gossip? Or tear another down?
These are things that happen. Not just on the forums but in chat rooms. And in life.
A person, unbeliever or believer.....doesn't matter, will do anything, given the right circumstances, the right timing, and the right amount of pressure. Why?
Because we all have an enemy of our soul. He looks for weakness and then strikes. Jesus knows this, Father knows this, Holy Spirit knows this. Do we? Apparently not when we look at others who fail with law.
Ive been affected by this religious thinking too. We all have. And for these reasons we need Holy Spirit.
What gift then would be most important to the believer that edifies and builds us up in the inner man? I'll tell you. Tongues.
And this is why this gift is so much targeted by the enemy to keep power from God coming into His body.
Sorry for the side track. You know, sorry, not sorry.
Just thought I'd address hypocrisy.
1. Is it hypocritical to present self as young when in fact you are old? Or vice versa?
2. What about being a man when woman? Or vice versa?
Why would someone do that?
3. What about being banned but continually come back under another profile?
4. How about flirting?
5. Why would men pull women aside in pm's in order to "teach" when we have the whole discussion board?
6. Making oneself greater in the eyes of another?
7. And my favorite gripe...coming alongside one as a friend, just to gain info in order to gossip? Or tear another down?
These are things that happen. Not just on the forums but in chat rooms. And in life.
A person, unbeliever or believer.....doesn't matter, will do anything, given the right circumstances, the right timing, and the right amount of pressure. Why?
Because we all have an enemy of our soul. He looks for weakness and then strikes. Jesus knows this, Father knows this, Holy Spirit knows this. Do we? Apparently not when we look at others who fail with law.
Ive been affected by this religious thinking too. We all have. And for these reasons we need Holy Spirit.
What gift then would be most important to the believer that edifies and builds us up in the inner man? I'll tell you. Tongues.
And this is why this gift is so much targeted by the enemy to keep power from God coming into His body.
Sorry for the side track. You know, sorry, not sorry.
Just thought I'd address hypocrisy.
I have a living hope that will not disappoint me that I am saved having already passed from eternal death to eternal life, as His Spirit witnesses to my new spirit that I am a child of God. Need more than what he gives? .
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
I say it is the gospel working in us that forms Christ in us.
Christ.
Then you are in agreement with us that His grace is sufficient seeing its his power and not of us to begin with? We have it in these erthen bodies of death but would never assume it is of us. That kind of idea would blaspheme the holy name by which we are called heavenward.
If Christ has paid the eternal wage then even when we do deny him in unbelief he cannot deny he paid the wage in full . While it is possible for us to deny Him... it is impossible for HIm to deny his own self.
I am reminded of Exodus .Its when he sees the blood not when we think we do.its not a work of human hands as if God was served by human hands.
We, I believe walk by faith the unseen. If we say we have no sin we make him out to be the liar.
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
I say it is the gospel working in us that forms Christ in us.
Christ.
Then you are in agreement with us that His grace is sufficient seeing its his power and not of us to begin with? We have it in these erthen bodies of death but would never assume it is of us. That kind of idea would blaspheme the holy name by which we are called heavenward.
If Christ has paid the eternal wage then even when we do deny him in unbelief he cannot deny he paid the wage in full . While it is possible for us to deny Him... it is impossible for HIm to deny his own self.
I am reminded of Exodus .Its when he sees the blood not when we think we do.its not a work of human hands as if God was served by human hands.
We, I believe walk by faith the unseen. If we say we have no sin we make him out to be the liar.
R
The Christian retains his free will.
You keep hiding behind this word 'should'. I meant to ask you what it means when the Christian chooses to live in his old life.
So instead of talking about the Christian 'should' be walking in righteousness as a convenient escape from what I'm saying, what about the Christian who chooses not to walk in righteousness and so 'lives in' sin not fighting it? The Bible says the person who does that is not born again. What do you say?
I think you can see that everything points to what I've been saying and that the new grace theology in the church is false. The person who lives in sin, not just sins, is not born again. The new grace theology says it doesn't matter, he is saved even if he goes back to unbelief. That's not what the Bible says. That theology was reasoned out by man from a misunderstanding of salvation not being by works.
You keep hiding behind this word 'should'. I meant to ask you what it means when the Christian chooses to live in his old life.
So instead of talking about the Christian 'should' be walking in righteousness as a convenient escape from what I'm saying, what about the Christian who chooses not to walk in righteousness and so 'lives in' sin not fighting it? The Bible says the person who does that is not born again. What do you say?
I think you can see that everything points to what I've been saying and that the new grace theology in the church is false. The person who lives in sin, not just sins, is not born again. The new grace theology says it doesn't matter, he is saved even if he goes back to unbelief. That's not what the Bible says. That theology was reasoned out by man from a misunderstanding of salvation not being by works.
Only the free can sing this tune. 
Freed from the curse of the law! To live in the wonderful grace, Jesus Himself, knowing we are loved....and freed to love!
oh, I see a post above me about freed Willy! Nope, No freewill....We have a wonderful Lord! Freed from seperation from Father, to be His child forever!
Freed from the curse of the law! To live in the wonderful grace, Jesus Himself, knowing we are loved....and freed to love!oh, I see a post above me about freed Willy! Nope, No freewill....We have a wonderful Lord! Freed from seperation from Father, to be His child forever!
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Only the free can sing this tune. Freed from the curse of the law! To live in the wonderful grace, Jesus Himself, knowing we are loved....and freed to love!
Freed from the curse of the law! To live in the wonderful grace, Jesus Himself, knowing we are loved....and freed to love!
AMEN and I have not only been set free from Christ, but my post 54746 is the last thing I am saying to those who cannot be honest with what we say......from now on my go to phrase is....
From now on, if you cannot be honest about what we say, do not address me because your accusations carry no value.......
I am tired of being misrepresented and falsely accused of things I have not said and or implied....my lost neighbor is more honest and has more integrity concerning what I have said over almost everyone I have come across that pushes works......
Hi Studyman
Yes he is our confidence. If (?) he has begun the good work in us knowing no man can come to God unless the father is drawing them, Those he has drawn as the good work of salvation he will not cast out as if they could lose the work Christ performed in them , he will (not maybe ) finish it to the end.
Who is your confidence to the end of the matter seeing no man can serve two masters.? Confidence in a persons own flesh? Is that the work you are referring to that will endure to the end? The work of self rightousness?
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Yes he is our confidence. If (?) he has begun the good work in us knowing no man can come to God unless the father is drawing them, Those he has drawn as the good work of salvation he will not cast out as if they could lose the work Christ performed in them , he will (not maybe ) finish it to the end.
Who is your confidence to the end of the matter seeing no man can serve two masters.? Confidence in a persons own flesh? Is that the work you are referring to that will endure to the end? The work of self rightousness?
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Okay, good.
The problem is, when you say things like one should "be fighting" against sinning as proof of their salvation, the question immediately arises, "how much?"
How much of a fight would be enough "proof" for you?
You see, Ralph; you messed up when you admitted you sin, and just now when you admitted Christians still retain their free will. You make a distinction between sinning a little (like you supposedly do) and sinning a lot, as proof of salvation. The Bible makes no such distinction. If you are held accountable for even a single sin (such as telling a lie) you are going to hell.
And by having free will to choose, (which includes choosing to not always live as God desires of us) Christians can choose to sin.
Is that sin covered under the blood?
Why yes - yes it is.
ALL sin is.
So, once again, your thundering judgment against us has become a tinkling little bell.
You remind me of the Pharisees of Matthew 23 who judged by the outward appearance. Jesus had lots to say about that. It was wrong of them then, and it's wrong of you now.
The problem is, when you say things like one should "be fighting" against sinning as proof of their salvation, the question immediately arises, "how much?"
How much of a fight would be enough "proof" for you?
You see, Ralph; you messed up when you admitted you sin, and just now when you admitted Christians still retain their free will. You make a distinction between sinning a little (like you supposedly do) and sinning a lot, as proof of salvation. The Bible makes no such distinction. If you are held accountable for even a single sin (such as telling a lie) you are going to hell.
And by having free will to choose, (which includes choosing to not always live as God desires of us) Christians can choose to sin.
Is that sin covered under the blood?
Why yes - yes it is.
ALL sin is.
So, once again, your thundering judgment against us has become a tinkling little bell.
You remind me of the Pharisees of Matthew 23 who judged by the outward appearance. Jesus had lots to say about that. It was wrong of them then, and it's wrong of you now.
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