Not By Works
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R
I'm familiar with this doctrine in the new grace movement. All you have to do is read 1 John 3:10 to see he is not talking about what the same person does from both his old nature and his new nature.
"By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother."
See, he is talking about the difference between who is born again and who is not. He is not talking about one moment living in your new nature and living in your old nature the next.
Keep posting USING SCRIPTURE and I'll be back later.
"By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother."
See, he is talking about the difference between who is born again and who is not. He is not talking about one moment living in your new nature and living in your old nature the next.
Keep posting USING SCRIPTURE and I'll be back later.
We should not say if a person sins they are not saved,for they might sin,but it can be forgiven,but it is the attitude towards sin that is the problem,that if a person believes they can abstain from sin by the Spirit if they do not want sin,and that sin does affect their relationship with God,for they know to do good,and nobody forced them to sin,they might sin but will repent and keep moving forward in the Spirit.
But many believe that they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,so many hold unto sin and think they are right with God,and then the sin cannot be washed away by the blood of Jesus.
They have the wrong attitude concerning sin that they think it is alright to hold unto sin and be right with God,where someone that hates sin,and does not want sin,and allows the Spirit to lead them,might sin but they will give it up and repent of it,and move forward in the Spirit for they have the right attitude that sin does affect their relationship with God.
2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Many people that claim Christ hold unto sin and think they are right with God when there is no excuse for they have a choice between good and evil,so if they do evil they could of chose the good,and they are not forced to sin,and if they hate sin,and do not want sin,by the Spirit they can abstain from sin,for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh,for they have crucified the flesh with the lusts and affections,and show the ways of the Spirit which there is no ways of the flesh being done,and God will not allow them to be tempted above what they are able,but will give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.
So there is no excuse.
So do they believe they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,because they do not understand scriptures,or do they want to enjoy sin,and fleshy pleasures,and money,and material things,for their wants,and believe that they are alright with God,and ignore scriptures.
Some people that claim Christ can have things they like to enjoy that are of the flesh,and not approved of God,and then believe they can do those things and be right with God.
Hold unto sin the blood of Jesus cannot wash it away,for God will not take away something that you hold unto.
And Jesus said whatever is in a person's heart is what defines them,their thoughts,and actions,and words,so if they sin then that is what is in their heart,so then how are they clean inside.
But many believe that they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,so many hold unto sin and think they are right with God,and then the sin cannot be washed away by the blood of Jesus.
They have the wrong attitude concerning sin that they think it is alright to hold unto sin and be right with God,where someone that hates sin,and does not want sin,and allows the Spirit to lead them,might sin but they will give it up and repent of it,and move forward in the Spirit for they have the right attitude that sin does affect their relationship with God.
2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Many people that claim Christ hold unto sin and think they are right with God when there is no excuse for they have a choice between good and evil,so if they do evil they could of chose the good,and they are not forced to sin,and if they hate sin,and do not want sin,by the Spirit they can abstain from sin,for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh,for they have crucified the flesh with the lusts and affections,and show the ways of the Spirit which there is no ways of the flesh being done,and God will not allow them to be tempted above what they are able,but will give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.
So there is no excuse.
So do they believe they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,because they do not understand scriptures,or do they want to enjoy sin,and fleshy pleasures,and money,and material things,for their wants,and believe that they are alright with God,and ignore scriptures.
Some people that claim Christ can have things they like to enjoy that are of the flesh,and not approved of God,and then believe they can do those things and be right with God.
Hold unto sin the blood of Jesus cannot wash it away,for God will not take away something that you hold unto.
And Jesus said whatever is in a person's heart is what defines them,their thoughts,and actions,and words,so if they sin then that is what is in their heart,so then how are they clean inside.
R
Just so we're clear here I'm not claiming John is saying we will never sin.
I'm saying what he is saying, that there is a difference between sinning and practicing sin. The saved person still sins (1 John 1:7-10), but the person who practices sin IS NOT BORN AGAIN-1 John 3:6. You have to explain why you do not make the distinction that he does. You claim that all sin is exactly the same.
I'm saying what he is saying, that there is a difference between sinning and practicing sin. The saved person still sins (1 John 1:7-10), but the person who practices sin IS NOT BORN AGAIN-1 John 3:6. You have to explain why you do not make the distinction that he does. You claim that all sin is exactly the same.
N
imputed righteousness
Romans
Chapter 4
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
________
ephesians 2
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ
_______
Philippians 3
1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
_________
romans 8
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
________
1 John 3
3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
_______
romans 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith
_______________________
To all who believe.... Doesn't fade
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 11:29 - For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.
John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
1 John Chapter 5
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Romans
Chapter 4
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
________
ephesians 2
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ
_______
Philippians 3
1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
_________
romans 8
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
________
1 John 3
3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
_______
romans 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith
_______________________
To all who believe.... Doesn't fade
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 11:29 - For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.
John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
1 John Chapter 5
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
We have the old man while we are still in the flesh. That's why, we will physically die. The new nature in us cannot sin, and that's why we will live eternally with God in heaven (or the new earth - depending on the timing).
The new man is what makes us sinless - the nature of Jesus imputed to us. That's how God call rule we are holy, righteous, and perfect - because that's what Jesus is.
The old man (our flesh) still sins, and that's how we still can sin and why God chastens us.
One person = two natures.
The new man is what makes us sinless - the nature of Jesus imputed to us. That's how God call rule we are holy, righteous, and perfect - because that's what Jesus is.
The old man (our flesh) still sins, and that's how we still can sin and why God chastens us.
One person = two natures.
Can I ask you a question?
Let's focus on 'practicing sin'
If you became aware of a brother in Jesus who was continually lying or watching porn, or getting angry or gossiping'
Would you just right them off as not truly a believer or would come alongside?
Before judging them as a non believer would you come alongside, try to find out why they walk in such things?
Everyone here knows I have talked about the severe gambling addiction I had.
In one week I lost £4,000 the next week I won £8,000.
When I lost big I was miserable, when I won big I was just as miserable.
So let's assume that you became aware of that, would you consider me a non believer and just write me off?
Or would you come alongside, try find out why I was doing it?
Let's focus on 'practicing sin'
If you became aware of a brother in Jesus who was continually lying or watching porn, or getting angry or gossiping'
Would you just right them off as not truly a believer or would come alongside?
Before judging them as a non believer would you come alongside, try to find out why they walk in such things?
Everyone here knows I have talked about the severe gambling addiction I had.
In one week I lost £4,000 the next week I won £8,000.
When I lost big I was miserable, when I won big I was just as miserable.
So let's assume that you became aware of that, would you consider me a non believer and just write me off?
Or would you come alongside, try find out why I was doing it?
We got iced out of church today. Wondering, does that equate to practicing sin? It has happened twice in the past few weeks. 
saved then unsaved Over here we get 1 inch of snow the country comes to a stand still
