Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
H

heartofdavid

Guest
Delusional..........^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

His post substantiated my claim.....nice try to divide us...........more works for hey.
It says " another"
You saying it doesn't is bizarre.
And you call me delusional.

What are you dealing with? Pride?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
It says " another"
You saying it doesn't is bizarre.
And you call me delusional.

What are you dealing with? Pride?
Do you see the word another in my post? AND apply the last line to yourself.....My post was valid...end of story.....

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Delusional..........^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

His post substantiated my claim.....nice try to divide us...........more works for hey.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
Romans
Chapter 4

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

________

ephesians 2


7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ

_______

Philippians 3

1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

_________
romans 8
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.


________

1 John 3
3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

_______

romans 3


19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.


___________



imputed righteousness in a nutshell


praise God for His mercy
Have to go run errands


but heres something the 'workers' refuse to see


(last repost, sorry guys)
 
H

heartofdavid

Guest
So is it not another gospel, different from the one that Paul taught?

Mind you not that there is another Gospel.
It is as if you are so set that the greek translation is wrong and that "different" should have been placed BEFORE "ANOTHER",that you are reframing the 2 verses.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
But if your sinning your not saved according to your doctrine........................................................and for sure by this post you are pushing a lifestyle of sin right..........

Sucks when someone adds to your words and accuses you of something you do not say........hey
You haven't been paying attention:

Here is the distinction that the Bible makes between sinning, and the sinning that proves you are not saved (the distinction you boldly proclaim the Bible does not make).


Believers do not practice sin:
9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."-1 John 3:9


Believers still sin:
"8If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us."-1 John 1:8


I know it's important to your doctrine to make no distinction between sinning and living in sin so that it can be claimed that believers can live in their old lives if they choose to and be saved, but we can see for ourselves that is not what the Bible says. John says the person who is born of God sins, but he does not practice sin. But you say there is no difference between sinning and practicing sin. Who do we believe, you or the Bible?

There is no blood covering where there is the practice of sin. The practice of sin is NOT covered under the blood. That person is not born again.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 11:29 - For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.

John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:


1 John Chapter 5

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

bump
one more bump

ohhh noo

(lol sorry, last one for real)
 
L

loverofjesus27

Guest
Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person.-Colossians 4:6 #Bible
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,022
4,441
113
Your post refutes his cliam.
Lets see his indignation towards you.
Won't happen
Just to say I'm not trying to refute anyone's post, concerning this
All I did was look at the Greek behind the the words.

I have just looked up the KJV which does render it as 'another' in verse 6&7
Yet the NKJV renders it as 'different' and then 'another''

So my confusion is "Why are two different Greek words used?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
That's patronizing...



All whom he has chosen because it is God working in them to do so; Philippians 2:12-15. I know you don't like that, you need someone to spiritually body slam.



I'm denying it because it is false. Lone ranger types like yourself are the gravest danger to sound doctrine and to the babes in Christ. That is a fact.

That statement is false, condescending and accusatory. Nowhere was that stated nor implied.

Agreed, and you are.
"Most are trying to obey rules and keeping God at arms length so to speak."
Stones has a wonderful way of replying to my post without actually addressing my posts. She made the above statement and I asked a legitimate question. To which I will receive no answer.

Instead of just doing a drive by, why don't you show me how mainstream Christianity is not the largest purveyor of disobedience to the God of Abraham on the planet? Is there another group larger than MC who comes in God's Name, but doesn't do what He says? I won't hold my breath for your answer.

In Acts 15, the Mainstream Church of James time also wanted the Gentile "Babes in Christ". Thankfully James kept them away from them and their religious traditions and sent them to the Scribes on the Sabbath to hear the unfiltered truth from Moses, as Jesus instructed them in Matt. 24:1-3.

I am faithful that God will protect His "Babes" who are truly seeking Him, from the religious traditions and doctrines of men that you espouse, as He did the New Converts in Acts 15.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
ACT LIKE.....hmmm....actors do that every day....they play someone they are not.......

Judas played the part for 3 years or so.....<---he was acting like it.....
Yep. 'Hypocrites' they are called. This is exactly what I was explaining to you:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5273&t=KJV


Hypocrites will not inherit the kingdom. They will go to the fiery place, not into the kingdom:.


51"and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."-Matthew 24:51


Only those who are saved with works confirming their salvation will go into the kingdom. Works do matter. They don't earn your salvation. They are the required evidence of salvation without which you will go into the lake of fire.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Just to say I'm not trying to refute anyone's post, concerning this
All I did was look at the Greek behind the the words.

I have just looked up the KJV which does render it as 'another' in verse 6&7
Yet the NKJV renders it as 'different' and then 'another''

So my confusion is "Why are two different Greek words used?
Because God inspired the Greek and not the ENGLISH..........and the GREEK makes a POINT that is not fully expanded by the ENGLISH.....
 
H

heartofdavid

Guest
Sure it got it wrong......let us apply this in a simple way that maybe you can GRASP

YOU are talking to BILL which is not BILL....................yeah that makes sense
Another which is not another............yep ANOTHER one that makes sense

Why do you think the KING JIMMY translators refused to translate the words correctly?

AHHHHHH now we are getting to the root....BECAUSE the TEXT refutes ANGLICAN dogma as FALSE

a GOSPEL of a DIFFERENT KIND which is NOT THE SAME KIND <------now that makes sense and REFUTES ALL gospels that BLEND FAITH and works/LAW to finish off salvation
Pssst, another and different are basically the same.

WHICH IS BASICALLY VERIFIED IN BILLS POST.

You are not even seeing the point of WHY it COULD be either word.

I don't see why you insist they can't
(That is WHY you need to use bills example)
A neutral party. Might help. Maybe
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Yep. 'Hypocrites' they are called. This is exactly what I was explaining to you:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5273&t=KJV


Hypocrites will not inherit the kingdom. They will go to the fiery place, not into the kingdom:.


51"and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."-Matthew 24:51


Only those who are saved with works confirming their salvation will go into the kingdom. Works do matter. They don't earn your salvation. They are the required evidence of salvation without which you will go into the lake of fire.
False.....only those who are saved by FAITH will go into the KINGDOM.....works DO NOT help that and or hinder that for one who has been saved...and THAT is what you are missing in your equation.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Thank God the grace of God out bounds our sin and failures hey......
The one sin it won't out bound is the sin of unrepentant unbelief.

The person living in sin is living in unbelief. If he does that to the very end he will be lost, not saved. No former claim to salvation will save him. He is doomed.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Pssst, another and different are basically the same.

WHICH IS BASICALLY VERIFIED IN BILLS POST.

You are not even seeing the point of WHY it COULD be either word.

I don't see why you insist they can't
(That is WHY you need to use bills example)
A neutral party. Might help. Maybe
I will go with the inspired GREEK

Heteros <--of a different kind
Allos <---of the SAME KIND

thanks anyway
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
False.....only those who are saved by FAITH will go into the KINGDOM.....works DO NOT help that and or hinder that for one who has been saved...and THAT is what you are missing in your equation.
Right, works do not help salvation. They show that you really have it.

The person who claims to have faith when Jesus comes back but has no works is a liar. They are deceived. You can't live in sin and be saved at the same time. John and Paul both said to not be deceived about this.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
Yep. 'Hypocrites' they are called. This is exactly what I was explaining to you:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5273&t=KJV


Hypocrites will not inherit the kingdom. They will go to the fiery place, not into the kingdom:.


51"and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."-Matthew 24:51


Only those who are saved with works confirming their salvation will go into the kingdom. Works do matter. They don't earn your salvation. They are the required evidence of salvation without which you will go into the lake of fire.
Phar·i·see
ˈferəˌsē/Submit
noun
a member of an ancient Jewish sect, distinguished by strict observance of the traditional and written law, and commonly held to have pretensions to superior sanctity.
___
a self-righteous person; a hypocrite.


◄ 5330. Pharisaios ►
Strong's Concordance
Pharisaios: a Pharisee, member of a Jewish religious sect
Original Word: Φαρισαῖος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Pharisaios
Phonetic Spelling: (far-is-ah'-yos)
Short Definition: a Pharisee
Definition: a Pharisee, one of the Jewish sect so called.
HELPS Word-studies
5330 Pharisaíos – properly, "a separatist, a purist"; a Pharisee."

["Pharisee" is derived from the Aramaic term, peras ("to divide and separate"). This literally refers to a "separatist"; hence, a Pharisee was someone "separated from sin."]


________


Romans 10:3
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
The one sin it won't out bound is the sin of unrepentant unbelief.

The person living in sin is living in unbelief. If he does that to the very end he will be lost, not saved. No former claim to salvation will save him. He is doomed.
Nice try to twist it....those in unbelief have never trusted into Christ..........those who have trusted into Christ <----if we believe not he abides faithful and cannot deny himself......

NEXT