Not By Works
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That's ok Bill....Jesus came for sinners like me...and not the self righteous who go about to establish their own righteousness through their own deeds and works........
I just thank God I am not like......oh wait.....I am like the guy beating on his chest saying Lord be merciful unto me a sinner.....
I just thank God I am not like......oh wait.....I am like the guy beating on his chest saying Lord be merciful unto me a sinner.....
OH IT A WINDOWS 10 ERROR. I just fired up a small laptop that has Windows 7 on it. SO it is only a WINDOWS 10 ERROR. They just HAD TO HAVE MESSED WITH A WINDOW 7 that WORKS, and NOW WITH WINDOWS 10 WE NOW IT HAVE ALL KINDS OF ERRORS that never used to be a problem.
Now where is that verse that says, "IF IT WORKS, DON'T FIX IT!"
Ecclesiastes 1:9 (ESV)
[SUP]Ecc 1:9 [/SUP] What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.
Now where is that verse that says, "IF IT WORKS, DON'T FIX IT!"
Ecclesiastes 1:9 (ESV)
[SUP]Ecc 1:9 [/SUP] What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.
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Now you can start to notice the behaviour of people here in CC how judgmental a lot here are while the rest rely on the words of God in spite of being mocked, abused and wrongfully accused. Are we proud of what's happening here? Do not be deceived by the enemy creating division in the church and promoting sin. Wake up and open your eyes.
New International Version 1984 Galatians 5:15 If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
Romans 16:17-20 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I am full of joy over you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil. The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.
Jude 1:17-19 A Call to Persevere But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the spirit.
New International Version 1984 Galatians 5:15 If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
Romans 16:17-20 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I am full of joy over you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil. The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.
Jude 1:17-19 A Call to Persevere But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the spirit.
The problem with people that believe faith alone,and not saved by works,and they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,and that God blesses with their wants that has nothing to do with a necessity,is many of them lack in love which you can observe in their lifestyle,and many will hold unto sin and think they are right with God because of how they believe.
Paul said charity,love in action,is greater than faith,and faith works by love,and love is the fulfilling of the law.
Lack in love then faith does not apply to save,and there is no excuse.
Paul said without charity they are nothing,and they err from the faith,and James said their faith is dead,and John said the love of God does not dwell in them.
Paul said that charity does not think an evil thought,does not rejoice in iniquity,but rejoices in the truth,is not unkind,and not arrogant,and not selfish,and only goes by their needs,and helps other people with their needs.
The Bible says to feed and clothe your enemies,and pray for them,bless them,and do good to them.
So they can say all they want about not saved by works,but it is our love that saves us,and to lack love means no salvation,for love is the fulfilling of the law.
They say they have been chosen and can never fall,but then why the lack of love among them,and many of them hold unto sin and think they are alright with God,which you can see in society,and with the belief that they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,many will hold unto sin.
So why the lack of love but then they say they are right with God when love is greater than faith.
All sin can be forgiven but there are many that are intentionally sinning and then saying they cannot abstain from sin,so why the lie,and many holding unto sin and saying sin does not affect their relationship with God,so why the lie,and many that believe God is blessing them above their needs,so why the lie.
How can the chosen,and the elect,believe in such a way like that where they will intentionally lack in love and then say they are alright.
There should be a survey done concerning all who believe faith alone,and not saved by works,and their lifestyle,because how they believe would cause many to hold unto sin,and be hypocritical for they think they alright even though they are hypocritical.
Paul said charity,love in action,is greater than faith,and faith works by love,and love is the fulfilling of the law.
Lack in love then faith does not apply to save,and there is no excuse.
Paul said without charity they are nothing,and they err from the faith,and James said their faith is dead,and John said the love of God does not dwell in them.
Paul said that charity does not think an evil thought,does not rejoice in iniquity,but rejoices in the truth,is not unkind,and not arrogant,and not selfish,and only goes by their needs,and helps other people with their needs.
The Bible says to feed and clothe your enemies,and pray for them,bless them,and do good to them.
So they can say all they want about not saved by works,but it is our love that saves us,and to lack love means no salvation,for love is the fulfilling of the law.
They say they have been chosen and can never fall,but then why the lack of love among them,and many of them hold unto sin and think they are alright with God,which you can see in society,and with the belief that they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,many will hold unto sin.
So why the lack of love but then they say they are right with God when love is greater than faith.
All sin can be forgiven but there are many that are intentionally sinning and then saying they cannot abstain from sin,so why the lie,and many holding unto sin and saying sin does not affect their relationship with God,so why the lie,and many that believe God is blessing them above their needs,so why the lie.
How can the chosen,and the elect,believe in such a way like that where they will intentionally lack in love and then say they are alright.
There should be a survey done concerning all who believe faith alone,and not saved by works,and their lifestyle,because how they believe would cause many to hold unto sin,and be hypocritical for they think they alright even though they are hypocritical.
You got the following right....NOW PAY ATTENTION AND BE HONEST WITH THE FOLLOWING....
YOUR RIGHT-->
YOUR RIGHT-->
Now you can start to notice the behaviour of people here in CC how judgmental a lot here are while the rest rely on the words of God in spite of being mocked, abused and wrongfully accused
NOW PAY ATTENTION AND BE HONEST IF YOU CAN
Originally Posted by Endoscopy
I am in total agreement with your comment. Another way of saying it is true faith produces good works. Which also means faith without works is false faith. It amazes me that people on this site argue strenuously against this claiming it is salvation by works ignoring that it is the other way around, the works are evidence of true faith. Dcontroversal chief among them.
NOW NOTE WHAT I HAVE POSTED MANY TIMES AND IN HONESTY TELL ME WHO WAS FALSLY ACCUSED
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
No one has disputed that bro.....the bible is clear on the following truths
Paul-->Romans-->A man is justified (rendered innocent) before God by faith void of works
James-->James-->A man's invisible faith that justifies before God (void of works) is seen by men in our works
FAITH and FAITH alone saves eternally
FAITH that saves eternally will produce fruit/works....even if but one piece!
NOW PAY ATTENTION AND BE HONEST IF YOU CAN
NOW NOTE WHAT I HAVE POSTED MANY TIMES AND IN HONESTY TELL ME WHO WAS FALSLY ACCUSED
Paul-->Romans-->A man is justified (rendered innocent) before God by faith void of works
James-->James-->A man's invisible faith that justifies before God (void of works) is seen by men in our works
FAITH and FAITH alone saves eternally
FAITH that saves eternally will produce fruit/works....even if but one piece!
EVERYTHING you said after the above is irrelevant.....BECAUSE what YOU SAY FIRST IS FALSE.....and NO ONE believes that OR TEACHES THAT.....
THIS IS THE ONLY ARGUMENT you guys have against a faith/grace based salvation.....nothing more than a false, accusatory, incorrect statement with NO VALUE nor truth.............................................................................................!!
THIS IS THE ONLY ARGUMENT you guys have against a faith/grace based salvation.....nothing more than a false, accusatory, incorrect statement with NO VALUE nor truth.............................................................................................!!
I know the mainstream preaching on this but I must rely on the Scriptures as instructed as opposed to the doctrines of men we have been warned about over and over..
John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47
But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
The Pharisees rejected Jesus because they rejected God and His Word. If they had know God, they would have known Jesus for He came from God.
Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
This man and His wife knew Jesus, and knew God. What is the difference between this man and the Pharisees, not according to man's preaching, but according to God's Word?
Can you give an honest answer to this question?
Jesus explains why they didn't know Him in His Word of you can accept it.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
The Pharisees rejected God's Word and created their own religion. Therefore their hearts were darkened, The Father didn't love them, and manifest Himself to them, or make His Abode with them.
Zechariahs, however, did keep His Sayings, and God revealed Himself to him to the point of hearing and answering His Prayers.
I know what your preaching is, I am just pointing out your error. The Pharisees didn't believe in Jesus because they didn't believe in the God of Abraham or His Instructions. Had they the Faith of Abraham in the God of the Bible, they would have Faith in Jesus because they are one and the same.
No matter how anyone slices and dices it, neither way would have "earned" entrance into the kingdom....
a. Going about to establish their own righteousness by their traditions <----NOPE
b. Going about to establish righteousness by law keeping<---NOPE
Abraham believed GOD and it was put to his account for righteousness and PAUL concluded that Abraham was justified by faith without works.......
Only one thing under the sun that opens the door into the Kingdom....faith into the one, true living way....JESUS and for those in the O.T. faith into the coming messiah........the 1st promise being found in Genesis 3:15
a. Going about to establish their own righteousness by their traditions <----NOPE
b. Going about to establish righteousness by law keeping<---NOPE
Abraham believed GOD and it was put to his account for righteousness and PAUL concluded that Abraham was justified by faith without works.......
Only one thing under the sun that opens the door into the Kingdom....faith into the one, true living way....JESUS and for those in the O.T. faith into the coming messiah........the 1st promise being found in Genesis 3:15
N
its right out there
for all to see...
but some just can not see
romans 5
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
for all to see...
but some just can not see
romans 5
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
WHEN ELAMOR SAID WHAT IS TRUE ABOUT THE COMMON BEHAVIOUR HERE ON A CHRISTIAN FORUM, A NUMBER OF PEOPLE REACTED WITH CONDEMNATION AS IF THEIR NOT GUILTY OF THE CHARGE THEIR MAKING ON THE PERSON. LET'S SEE...
31 do to others as you would have them do to you
Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
M17 You have wearied the Lord with your words.
“How have we wearied him?” you ask.
By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”
Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
31 do to others as you would have them do to you
Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
M17 You have wearied the Lord with your words.
“How have we wearied him?” you ask.
By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”
Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
This statement about waking up knowing you will sin, is a strange idea.
One could reasonably say we wake up knowing our weaknesses with the potential of sinning,
but not the intention of stumbling like this.
The question is whether behavior that is sinful is actually bound to the believer in their
mind or something they see as a work the Lord is bringing them victory in.
An alcoholic will always be addicted to alcohol, but knows they can avoid drinking it.
Some do avoid it, some do not. One only knows at the point of failure.
Someone who walks in the light knows their issues, and their victories.
Someone who is still bound knows their slavery. I hope you can see the difference.
Are we slaves pretending we are free, or freed slaves walking in love and purity?
One could reasonably say we wake up knowing our weaknesses with the potential of sinning,
but not the intention of stumbling like this.
The question is whether behavior that is sinful is actually bound to the believer in their
mind or something they see as a work the Lord is bringing them victory in.
An alcoholic will always be addicted to alcohol, but knows they can avoid drinking it.
Some do avoid it, some do not. One only knows at the point of failure.
Someone who walks in the light knows their issues, and their victories.
Someone who is still bound knows their slavery. I hope you can see the difference.
Are we slaves pretending we are free, or freed slaves walking in love and purity?
As a simple observation, we should not expect acceptance, appreciation or even
grace from those who wish to condemn themselves sinning all the time, and then
drag everyone else into the same sinful behaviour pattern.
Sin is very specific. Sin is not accidental, it is intentional and deliberate. Sin leads to
death. It is evil.
Some say a stray thought is sin. Or an emotion felt, or an intention worked through.
Sin is an actual chosen behaviour. I have seen people with hatred in their heart intentionally
hurting people, lying about others, anger busting forth to be destructive.
It is impossible to talk in generalities, because for some they have a sensitive conscience, and
are victims of others intentions and desires, while others will feel guilty whatever they are doing.
And the idea quoting scripture and interpreting its meaning is just a way of lying, slander, evil,
is just nuts. It is what is in the heart and what the heart creates that matters.
If you are hurt, knocked about and not rejoicing in the Spirit, withdraw, spend time with Christ
and find His peace. I know good reasons why people will believe opposite emphasis on faith,
and both be right in their stage of insight and development. Condemning either actually is sinful,
but sharing why one emphasis this aspect of faith, can build all up.
Now I know people will want to say bad things about anything I share, but praise the Lord, He
is very gracious and forgiving and overflows with blessing, so my friends, try and walk in His ways
Amen
grace from those who wish to condemn themselves sinning all the time, and then
drag everyone else into the same sinful behaviour pattern.
Sin is very specific. Sin is not accidental, it is intentional and deliberate. Sin leads to
death. It is evil.
Some say a stray thought is sin. Or an emotion felt, or an intention worked through.
Sin is an actual chosen behaviour. I have seen people with hatred in their heart intentionally
hurting people, lying about others, anger busting forth to be destructive.
It is impossible to talk in generalities, because for some they have a sensitive conscience, and
are victims of others intentions and desires, while others will feel guilty whatever they are doing.
And the idea quoting scripture and interpreting its meaning is just a way of lying, slander, evil,
is just nuts. It is what is in the heart and what the heart creates that matters.
If you are hurt, knocked about and not rejoicing in the Spirit, withdraw, spend time with Christ
and find His peace. I know good reasons why people will believe opposite emphasis on faith,
and both be right in their stage of insight and development. Condemning either actually is sinful,
but sharing why one emphasis this aspect of faith, can build all up.
Now I know people will want to say bad things about anything I share, but praise the Lord, He
is very gracious and forgiving and overflows with blessing, so my friends, try and walk in His ways
Amen
By the way, I am still waiting how you guys who say you walk in sin daily, and do not
know cleansing, purity and forgiveness, how can you answer Pauls call for us
God did not call us to be impure, but to live a Holy life.
Was he deluded and wrong? This is Gods word, and you respect Paul as your true
dispensational authority, so how do you answer such a thing?
Or John calling us to not just speak Gods word and love, but act on it.
Or Peter calling us to be Holy as God is Holy.
Are you so impure, the idea of Holiness is so alien, it just condemns you?
It should not because the cross declares you clean, purified, made whole.
Unless you know you are still too broken and leaking so many unresolved issues
you do not know where to start.
know cleansing, purity and forgiveness, how can you answer Pauls call for us
God did not call us to be impure, but to live a Holy life.
Was he deluded and wrong? This is Gods word, and you respect Paul as your true
dispensational authority, so how do you answer such a thing?
Or John calling us to not just speak Gods word and love, but act on it.
Or Peter calling us to be Holy as God is Holy.
Are you so impure, the idea of Holiness is so alien, it just condemns you?
It should not because the cross declares you clean, purified, made whole.
Unless you know you are still too broken and leaking so many unresolved issues
you do not know where to start.