Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh my gosh. How awful your life must have been. I feel for your seriously. That was a ditch I fell into that I never wish to happen to anyone.

We have heard this stuff before. A thread was opened about it. I do not understand where it comes from though, if we have no assurance in God, what assurance can we ever have? In self?? Then when we understand this is the root of the problem, we start to understand why they stay the things they do.

 

[MichaelOwen]

Your words show you do not know the Gospel nor do you understand grace.

Wanna know how merciful Jesus is toward us? Look at Peter, whom Christ said he would build his church upon, the Rock. When Christ was being questioned, it said that Peter was with the multitude and was recognized, and all three times he denied being with Jesus, essentially saying he had no affiliation with Him, and even cursed the last time! But when Jesus turned and looked Peter in the eye, He showed mercy to him and forgave, even after that. That's how merciful our Lord is.

 

[AbigailZeke]

Thank you! This is a great reminder, and one of my favourite scriptures too:

Isaiah 43:25 "I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more...

Elohim judges righteously and we see this when Jesus' blood was shed on the Cross for our sins.

Yahweh loves perfectly and we see this when Jesus gave up His life for us on the Cross.

Elohim is RIGHTEOUS.
Yahweh is LOVE.

Amazing how He found a way to both pay the price for man's sin AND save man from having to pay that price.

Just how deep is His wisdom?! Who can measure?!

Not us, certainly. I'm content to know that my God is able to do the impossible.

Hi all...I love this Scripture ...Lamentations 3:22-23 The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases;
his mercies never come to an end;
23 they are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness...

Isaiah 43:25 "I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more...

We have turned back to God , we are now His children , those who have been born again of the Spirit...
Romans 3:24 Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins...

Thank you God for your fesh Grace and Mercy that you give us each morning...Thank you LORD that we are saved by your grace ...

Ephesians 2:8-10: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them...

Philippians 2:13 For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him...

Amen and praise the Lord \/...Just exercising my faith here in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord...xox...

 

[Budman]

It's really simple: If there are ANY sins that were not paid for at the cross, then Jesus would have to come back and die again for the ones missed. For the Bible says without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins. (Hebrews 9:22)

Yet, Jesus said it is finished! He's not going to come back to die again.

ALL of ours sins were in the future when Jesus died. Either ALL were paid for....

...or we're in deep trouble.

 

[BenFTW]

We have heard this stuff before. A thread was opened about it. I do not understand where it comes from though, if we have no assurance in God, what assurance can we ever have? In self?? Then when we understand this is the root of the problem, we start to understand why they stay the things they do.

Compassion is what should spring forth from our hearts. What manner of evil have they experienced that their sole reliance is self? What pain have they gone through, what neglect, that they must fight for their acceptance before God? In their life the people surrounding them wanted their love earned, where as God's love is freely given yet costly. The price of His Son, Jesus Christ upon that cross. For them they are like a deer lost in the woods on a foggy night, their doctrines offer no defense to the fiery darts of the enemy. We cry for them, we weep for their peace. May God show them the truth.

 

[AbigailZeke]

Yeah. It's just really awful. It's true what the bible said,

Hosea 4:6

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge;

LightLoveHope, if you only knew HOW MUCH God loves you, HOW FAR He's willing to go for you. It's staring you in the face, you know? Your username even speaks it.

We have heard this stuff before. A thread was opened about it. I do not understand where it comes from though, if we have no assurance in God, what assurance can we ever have? In self?? Then when we understand this is the root of the problem, we start to understand why they stay the things they do.

 

[AbigailZeke]

COME INTO THE LIGHT, LightLoveHope!

Really, JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY. The world can't give you assurance, you have nowhere to run to. To yourself? You know that more than any of us, that you can't trust yourself to deliver you through all of this. Only Jesus can.

 

[Ralph-]

And yet, you still sin, Ralph. You sinned yesterday, you sinned today, and you'll sin tomorrow. You are the epitome of hypocrisy - the absolute poster boy. Squealing on and on about our "living in sin" when you are as guilty as anyone.

I sin, but I do not live in sin. I am not a hypocrite. I am not characterized by my old life anymore. I am a new creation being conformed into the image of Christ.


Anybody who can't tell the difference between living in sin as an unbeliever and sinning after salvation probably is not born again for them to know the difference.

 

[AbigailZeke]

I should sleep. It's 1AM and I got work tomorrow.

I thank God for all the seeds ya'll are planting here. MUCH LOVE TO YA'LL! God bless!

 

[Ralph-]

We sin everyday.....that's the point he is making.

But do we still live in and practice sin like we did before we say we believed. That is the question.

The person who is still the same unchanged person that they were before they say they believed is not born again. If they were born again as they claim they would be being conformed to the image of Christ in accordance with God's promise and power for that to happen.

So many people in the church are big on God's grace and power in the forgiveness of sins, but not so big on God's grace and power in becoming conformed to the image of Christ. Their God is weak and ineffectual that way. Not my God. Not my Jesus.

 

[Budman]

I sin, but I do not live in sin.

One sin attributed will damn you. Stop looking to yourself and your works, Ralph. Your lifestyle isn't assurance. The only assurance is the promise of God that if we believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose again to pay the penalty for our sins, we are saved - and can never be lost again.

 

[BenFTW]

But do we still live in and practice sin like we did before we say we believed. That is the question.

The person who is still the same unchanged person that they were before they say they believed is not born again. If they were born again as they claim they would be being conformed to the image of Christ in accordance with God's promise and power for that to happen.

So many people in the church are big on God's grace and power in the forgiveness of sins, but not so big on God's grace and power in becoming conformed to the image of Christ. Their God is weak and ineffectual that way. Not my God. Not my Jesus.

This reminds me of a verse I looked up today.

[h=1]1 John 3:7 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Holiness is a result of salvation and the sanctification of God. We shouldn't be quick to judge and be a fruit inspector, however. Fruit takes time to bear, some people are set free at once and others it takes years. The important thing to take note of is that they were just as saved when they struggled with the sin as when they finally overcame it by the grace of God. [/FONT]

 

[Budman]

But do we still live in and practice sin like we did before we say we believed. That is the question.

The person who is still the same unchanged person that they were before they say they believed is not born again. If they were born again as they claim they would be being conformed to the image of Christ in accordance with God's promise and power for that to happen.

So many people in the church are big on God's grace and power in the forgiveness of sins, but not so big on God's grace and power in becoming conformed to the image of Christ. Their God is weak and ineffectual that way. Not my God. Not my Jesus.

Your problem is your self-righteous pride, Ralph. It oozes through ever post you write. You are like the Pharisees who wanted people to watch them while they fasted and prayed, to get recognition for their "holiness".

Our works don't justify us before God - only men. Because even the most rank unbelieving sinner can do really awesome good works.

 

[Ralph-]

Have no idea what sins he committed, but I'm certain he did. Same as you, and same as me. The Bible says to "be ye perfect even as your heavenly Father is perfect" (Matthew 5:48). We are to be as perfect as God. Are you? If not, you are sinning. The Bible says to "love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul" (Matthew 22:37). Do you do this every second of the day? Then you are sinning.

Unless every single thought in your head, and every single thing you do is absolutely perfect - you are sinning.

Since you do not want to make the distinction between living and practicing sin like an unbeliever and sinning as a believer you effectively condemn yourself because the Bible is quite clear that the person who lives in and practices sin is not born again.

But you will be quick to say, "but I believe, so that makes it so I'm not condemned in my old unchanged life". So then you are saying that grace is your license to live in your old unchanged life, despite the fact that you insist that's it's not.

So you have a choice here, Budman, that you seem determined to avoid making a decision about. Either you stick to your argument that sinning as a believer and living in sin like an unbeliever are exactly equal, thereby making grace a license to sin, or you acknowledge that the Bible says there is the difference between sinning as a believer and living in and practicing sin like an unbeliever. Which one's it going to be?

Please make your stance clearly known for us all.

 

[Ralph-]

This reminds me of a verse I looked up today.

1 John 3:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Holiness is a result of salvation and the sanctification of God. We shouldn't be quick to judge and be a fruit inspector, however. Fruit takes time to bear, some people are set free at once and others it takes years. The important thing to take note of is that they were just as saved when they struggled with the sin as when they finally overcame it by the grace of God.

Some things surely will take time to overcome completely. But to say a person will have no fruit the day they get saved is denying the change of nature that salvation brings.

Change of nature is signified by a battle with sin, not a caving into it with the misguided rationalization that salvation is not by works, and once your're saved you can lose your salvation. In the end, true believers do not use those doctrines as an excuse to 'live in' their old lives. Your John verse, and others, bear this truth out. The true believer is marked by his conforming to the image of Christ, not by living unchanged in his old life.

 

[BenFTW]

Since you do not want to make the distinction between living and practicing sin like an unbeliever and sinning as a believer you effectively condemn yourself because the Bible is quite clear that the person who lives in and practices sin is not born again.

But you will be quick to say, "but I believe, so that makes it so I'm not condemned in my old unchanged life". So then you are saying that grace is your license to live in your old unchanged life, despite the fact that you insist that's it's not.

So you have a choice here, Budman, that you seem determined to avoid making a decision about. Either you stick to your argument that sinning as a believer and living in sin like an unbeliever are exactly equal, thereby making grace a license to sin, or you acknowledge that the Bible says there is the difference between sinning as a believer and living in and practicing sin like an unbeliever. Which one's it going to be?

Please make your stance clearly known for us all.

I am reading your posts and they are making valid points. Surely Budman agrees that we are to walk righteously, he may yet disagree for what reason however. Not for salvation, for this is by grace through faith. We walk righteously because that is who we have been made through Christ and by the Spirit of Adoption. We are children of God, children of the light. Dead to sin and alive unto God.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Yeah. It's just really awful. It's true what the bible said,

Hosea 4:6

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge;

LightLoveHope, if you only knew HOW MUCH God loves you, HOW FAR He's willing to go for you. It's staring you in the face, you know? Your username even speaks it.

The sad thing is I understand both views very well.
Christ the gift of His life on the cross brings us into the Kingdom, but does not change
the rules of love and life, and how to live in purity in Christ.

OCD self condemners need to know freedom in their life, because the sin in their hearts
is around carrying a burden of self justification.

The other side is of lawlessness and no obligations is equally wrong.
So many can hide in either position and miss the beauty of Jesus.

If you cannot resolve this, in time all one believes will fade away.

What people trapped in your "freedom" is to ignore the obvious calling to obedience
and love which is just rejected, as if this is the world of the enemy.

I am truly free in Christ, knowing purity in the heart is the beginning of the Kingdom.

 

[Budman]

Since you do not want to make the distinction between living and practicing sin like an unbeliever and sinning as a believer you effectively condemn yourself because the Bible is quite clear that the person who lives in and practices sin is not born again.

You sin every day. So yeah, it's pretty much a practice.

But you will be quick to say, "but I believe, so that makes it so I'm not condemned in my old unchanged life". So then you are saying that grace is your license to live in your old unchanged life, despite the fact that you insist that's it's not.

Back to that old lie? Ralph, I have never said grace is a license to sin. I said, we should live as holy a life as we can. But, we have the same free will we've always had to disobey and not work as we should. That will not damn us because we have no sins left to pay for. God will chasten a wayward child, but they can never, ever be lost due to any amount of sinning.

Please make your stance clearly known for us all.

I have, Ralph. Over and over again on these boards in general, and this thread in particular. You just refuse to acknowledge it, and instead continue to throw out the same old tired accusations you have since you joined CC.

 

[BenFTW]

Some things surely will take time to overcome completely. But to say a person will have no fruit the day they get saved is denying the change of nature that salvation brings.

Change of nature is signified by a battle with sin, not a caving into it with the misguided rationalization that salvation is not by works, and once your're saved you can lose your salvation. In the end, true believers do not use those doctrines as an excuse to 'live in' their old lives. Your John verse, and others, bear this truth out. The true believer is marked by his conforming to the image of Christ, not by living unchanged in his old life.

They are yet babes in Christ, those just born-again. To expect them to be Christ-like the following Sunday is setting them up for failure and condemnation. Be an example unto them, walk in love and guide them in the truth of who they are in Christ. What Christ purchased for them, and how they now are set free from sin not being under the law but grace. Just as the apostle Paul did, inform them of who they have been made. They are saints of God, the righteous.

 

[IXApollyonXI]

According to REV. 14:13 & REV. 20:12 after "The Great Tribulation"​ from that time until the end their works will go with them.
Those who are in the 1st resurrection are blessed, but those who are among the 2nd resurrection suffer the 2nd DEATH!