Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Here is Jesus on the topic.
Matthew 7
True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Matthew 7
True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
STILL WAITING ON YOU TO ANSWER
This whole premise denies other truths that prove salvation is based entirely upon FAITH ALONE......NO MAN can produce 1 work, 1 piece of fruit WITHOUT BEING IN THE VINE FIRST....how dense must one be to not understand this BASIC truth
SO....HOW does one get placed INTO the VINE....WHAT WORK places one into the VINE, explain HOW ONE can produce 1 work without being in the VINE.....
JESUS said BY OUR WORDS we will be CONDEMNED or JUSTIFIED....HE DID NOT SAY BY OUR WORKS we would BE CONDEMNED or JUSTIFIED......
WHAT does the scripture say.....
HE that BELIEVES in the SON and CONFESSES this BELIEF is WHAT??????????
WHAT 1 word goes with the bolded above????????????????????????????????????????
This whole premise denies other truths that prove salvation is based entirely upon FAITH ALONE......NO MAN can produce 1 work, 1 piece of fruit WITHOUT BEING IN THE VINE FIRST....how dense must one be to not understand this BASIC truth
SO....HOW does one get placed INTO the VINE....WHAT WORK places one into the VINE, explain HOW ONE can produce 1 work without being in the VINE.....
JESUS said BY OUR WORDS we will be CONDEMNED or JUSTIFIED....HE DID NOT SAY BY OUR WORKS we would BE CONDEMNED or JUSTIFIED......
WHAT does the scripture say.....
HE that BELIEVES in the SON and CONFESSES this BELIEF is WHAT??????????
WHAT 1 word goes with the bolded above????????????????????????????????????????
Still WAITING ENDOSCOPY on your answer to the BOLDED
This whole premise denies other truths that prove salvation is based entirely upon FAITH ALONE......NO MAN can produce 1 work, 1 piece of fruit WITHOUT BEING IN THE VINE FIRST....how dense must one be to not understand this BASIC truth
SO....HOW does one get placed INTO the VINE....WHAT WORK places one into the VINE, explain HOW ONE can produce 1 work without being in the VINE.....
JESUS said BY OUR WORDS we will be CONDEMNED or JUSTIFIED....HE DID NOT SAY BY OUR WORKS we would BE CONDEMNED or JUSTIFIED......
WHAT does the scripture say.....
HE that BELIEVES in the SON and CONFESSES this BELIEF is WHAT??????????
WHAT 1 word goes with the bolded above????????????????????????????????????????
This whole premise denies other truths that prove salvation is based entirely upon FAITH ALONE......NO MAN can produce 1 work, 1 piece of fruit WITHOUT BEING IN THE VINE FIRST....how dense must one be to not understand this BASIC truth
SO....HOW does one get placed INTO the VINE....WHAT WORK places one into the VINE, explain HOW ONE can produce 1 work without being in the VINE.....
JESUS said BY OUR WORDS we will be CONDEMNED or JUSTIFIED....HE DID NOT SAY BY OUR WORKS we would BE CONDEMNED or JUSTIFIED......
WHAT does the scripture say.....
HE that BELIEVES in the SON and CONFESSES this BELIEF is WHAT??????????
WHAT 1 word goes with the bolded above????????????????????????????????????????
I will break it down and make it even easier to read and answer if there are too many words for you ENDOSCOPY....
Answer the FOLLOWING EASY questions....
HOW does one get placed INTO the VINE?
WHAT WORK places one into the VINE?
HE that BELIEVES in the SON and CONFESSES this BELIEF is ____________ <-WHAT?
WHAT 1 word goes with the bolded ONE right above this question?
Answer the FOLLOWING EASY questions....
HOW does one get placed INTO the VINE?
WHAT WORK places one into the VINE?
HE that BELIEVES in the SON and CONFESSES this BELIEF is ____________ <-WHAT?
WHAT 1 word goes with the bolded ONE right above this question?
As i stated previously ALL scripture on a topic MUST be taken into consideration to understand the topic. Selecting some verses to the exclusioe of others gives a wrong impression of the truth. Verses talking about faith saving a person states that we are not able to earn it. We then must have the fruits Jesus spoke about as the result of the faith. That is how He told us to watch out for the wolves in sheep's clothing. I stand on what Jesus said.
Matthew 7
True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Matthew 7
True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Last edited:
COP OUT......see...you cannot answer truthfully because the truth destroys your embellished working for dogma......
I will break it down and make it even easier to read and answer if there are too many words for you ENDOSCOPY....
Answer the FOLLOWING EASY questions....
HOW does one get placed INTO the VINE? <--SALVATION is the answer
WHAT WORK places one into the VINE? <----NONE is the answer
HE that BELIEVES in the SON and CONFESSES this BELIEF is ____________ <-WHAT?<---SAVED is the answer
WHAT 1 word goes with the bolded ONE right above this question?
I will break it down and make it even easier to read and answer if there are too many words for you ENDOSCOPY....
Answer the FOLLOWING EASY questions....
HOW does one get placed INTO the VINE? <--SALVATION is the answer
WHAT WORK places one into the VINE? <----NONE is the answer
HE that BELIEVES in the SON and CONFESSES this BELIEF is ____________ <-WHAT?<---SAVED is the answer
WHAT 1 word goes with the bolded ONE right above this question?
SEE folks........the simplicity in JESUS answers the questions I gave to ENDOSCOPY.....he refused to answer because the truth refutes ALL works based dogma. JAMES in CONTEXT does not teach a works based salvation....IT rightfully teaches that MEN can SEE the faith that saves US BY our WORKS....YET PAUL clearly teaches that a man is saved and justified in front of GOD BY FAITH WITHOUT WORKS.......
Here is the words of Jesus. Refute them if you dare. This is who I believe and not you!!!
Matthew 7
True and Fealse Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Which kind of fruit do you bear?
Matthew 7
True and Fealse Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Which kind of fruit do you bear?
Last edited:
I like this, because there are all degrees of faith, and as long as you have faith to believe in God, and his Son is enough work to be saved. Never in scripture does it say anything about if you don't have works you would be lost eternally. never once. The poor believer cannot take care of the rich believer , but the rich can take care of the poor. Does it mean that the poor have no faith, or works? MATTHHEW; 20; 1-6 EXPLAINS this well.
Last edited:
You reject the words not only of James but Jesus as well. Then you attack my statements of what the scripture says. Try again.
ALL SCRIPTURE ON A TOPIC MUST BE READ TO COMPLETLY UNDERSTAND THE SCRIPTURE. THIS IS BASIC THEOLOGY!!
There are exhaustive theology books that do that. Get one of them. Burkhart wrote one for example.
ALL SCRIPTURE ON A TOPIC MUST BE READ TO COMPLETLY UNDERSTAND THE SCRIPTURE. THIS IS BASIC THEOLOGY!!
There are exhaustive theology books that do that. Get one of them. Burkhart wrote one for example.
Works of honour
Works of justification
Works of worship
Works of sacrifice
Works of love
Out of the above list the only one I have a problem with is works to self-justify.
One could do this to show to show one is good, rather than I do this because it
flows out of who I am.
There is a subtle difference. I mean subtle because if you feel you must do something
to show you are something, the focus is wrong, and probably you are not what you think
you are showing. So an evangelical must witness because they are an evangelical.
Or a lover of mens souls knows they are lost in need of help, so they witness to pull
them out of darkness into the light.
I witnessed once to guy who knew scripture on the outside of his heart, but not within.
I did not get him to the point of prayer asking God to become a reality within, but we
got some way down that road.
If you can see the issue I am pointing out, you know where brothers and sisters are.
If you cannot see this, then I am your enemy, and you read in everything which simply
is not there.
Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship.
Romans 12:1
For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Ephesians 2:10
Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share.
In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.
1 Timothy 6:18-19
For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,
because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.
1 Timothy 4:4-5
Be joyful always;
pray continually;
give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus.
Do not put out the Spirit's fire;
1 Thessalonians 5:16-19
Amen
We do this because He is worthy, He is our Lord and we love Him.
Why? Because we know He went to the cross to save us, Praise to His
glorious name.
Now to some rejoicing in God like this is so strange they think it is make believe,
but as John says this kind of witness comes from the Holy Spirit alone, Jesus
the Messiah has come in the flesh and saved us from death, Amen.
Works of justification
Works of worship
Works of sacrifice
Works of love
Out of the above list the only one I have a problem with is works to self-justify.
One could do this to show to show one is good, rather than I do this because it
flows out of who I am.
There is a subtle difference. I mean subtle because if you feel you must do something
to show you are something, the focus is wrong, and probably you are not what you think
you are showing. So an evangelical must witness because they are an evangelical.
Or a lover of mens souls knows they are lost in need of help, so they witness to pull
them out of darkness into the light.
I witnessed once to guy who knew scripture on the outside of his heart, but not within.
I did not get him to the point of prayer asking God to become a reality within, but we
got some way down that road.
If you can see the issue I am pointing out, you know where brothers and sisters are.
If you cannot see this, then I am your enemy, and you read in everything which simply
is not there.
Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship.
Romans 12:1
For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Ephesians 2:10
Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share.
In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.
1 Timothy 6:18-19
For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,
because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.
1 Timothy 4:4-5
Be joyful always;
pray continually;
give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus.
Do not put out the Spirit's fire;
1 Thessalonians 5:16-19
Amen
We do this because He is worthy, He is our Lord and we love Him.
Why? Because we know He went to the cross to save us, Praise to His
glorious name.
Now to some rejoicing in God like this is so strange they think it is make believe,
but as John says this kind of witness comes from the Holy Spirit alone, Jesus
the Messiah has come in the flesh and saved us from death, Amen.
Endo,
I really do not think the above makes your point concerning James.
It's about false prophets, who are wolves.
If they are wolves then their fruit we will show it.
To be honest I think you are misguided as to what saves us.
It's not works.
Fruit grows from being in the vine.
That is what James is saying.
If you are in the vine then there will be fruit.
If your not in the then there will be no fruit.
How many people in this thread have denied that fruit/works does not follow as a result of faith?
How many people on this thread are there that says that works save us?
Note here, there are some that believe faith saves but works keep us saved.
Father prophet Bill
I really do not think the above makes your point concerning James.
It's about false prophets, who are wolves.
If they are wolves then their fruit we will show it.
To be honest I think you are misguided as to what saves us.
It's not works.
Fruit grows from being in the vine.
That is what James is saying.
If you are in the vine then there will be fruit.
If your not in the then there will be no fruit.
How many people in this thread have denied that fruit/works does not follow as a result of faith?
How many people on this thread are there that says that works save us?
Note here, there are some that believe faith saves but works keep us saved.
Father prophet Bill
It talks about false prophets and how to tell them from the true prophets.
By their fruits you shall know them!! Does it come from a thorn bush or a good tree.
A good tree produces good fruit and a bad tree produces bad fruit.
The words of Jesus.
Matthew 7
True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
By their fruits you shall know them!! Does it come from a thorn bush or a good tree.
A good tree produces good fruit and a bad tree produces bad fruit.
The words of Jesus.
Matthew 7
True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Last edited:
Jesus said the following about the fruits. Refute this. This is where James gets it from!!
ALL SCRIPTURE ON A TOPIC REMEMBER!!!
Matthew 7
True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
ALL SCRIPTURE ON A TOPIC REMEMBER!!!
Matthew 7
True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Last edited: