Scriptural support for Free Will

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Does not scripture stand alone without the opinion of man? God chose Solomon the be A SON unto HIM and God his FATHER.....

Did God not say, "I choose who to have mercy upon and who not to have mercy upon"?

But God has His reasons and with Solomon God gave a promise to David about how He would deal with Davids son.. Did not Solomon by His own free will ask God to give him wisdom and was God not pleased with Solomon for not only asking for wisdom but for the reason he asked for it?

Yes God chooses whom He will have mercy on and whom he will not have mercy on.. But he does not select people at random. He has reasons for doing so, reasons that include the persons own free willed response to the will of God..

 

[SovereignGrace]

In fact we both believe that God saves through the gospel where you fall behind is that you want to believe that God cannot evangelize without you.

And this right here is mysticism. God can do this if He chooses to, but He chose to use ppl to fulfill His purpose in saving the lost. God could have picked the Jews up out of Egypt and planted them in the promised land, yet He chose to send Moses and Aaron to bring them out. It's not about what God could do, but what He has decreed to do. And it is via the gospel that is either proclaimed by His ppl or the bible they read that saves them. No one who has ever heard of Jesus will know to call out to Him. How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?[Romans 10:14] Paul gives three question here. The first one is how can anyone call on someone they have not believed in? They can't. Then he asks how can they believe in one in whom they have never heard about? They can't. Jesus said He was the only Way to the Father. Then his last question is how can they hear without it being preached? They can't. But I think witnessing is as effective as preaching when God works through that witnessing. God does not use anything other than the gospel that is proclaimed to the lost by His ppl, or being read in the bible to save the lost.

Nothing mystical but God can do what seems impossible to man.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

It is mystical when you say a tribe in deepest darkest Africa is saved w/o someone being a witness to them. God can do as He pleases, but we're not dealing with possibilities, but actualities.

 

[SovereignGrace]

where you fall behind is that you want to believe that God cannot evangelize without you.

Its not that God can not evangelize w/o us, its that He will not. He left us His word and teachers, preachers, pastors, evangelists, &c., to expound what His word means. He uses these ppl to get His word to the lost. God does not speak to us like He did before the canon of scripture was closed. I think Hebrews 1 alludes to this. If we need to hear from God, we need to crack open our bible and read. That is how He speaks to us now.


For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.[1 Cor. 1:21] It is through the gospel, that which pleased God to do, to save those who believe. It does not say what you believe, that God can evangelize w/o us. He can, but He chose not to do that, but use His ppl to do it for Him.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed--[Rom. 1:16-17a] It is through the gospel, that which is spoken by His ppl, that reveals His righteousness. He does not evangelize this, but has chosen us to do it for Him.

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,[Eph. 1:13] It is after someone hears the gospel, that which is spoken through the mouth of God's ppl, that they are saved. God does not do this, because He has chosen to have His ppl do this for Him.

If you believe other than this, you're a mystic. Period.

 

[SovereignGrace]

20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

I asked you previously how can someone find that which they did not seek for? If I lose a ball, unless I seek after it, I won't find it.

How did ppl find God, when they never sough after Him?

 

[preacher4truth]

And this right here is mysticism. God can do this if He chooses to, but He chose to use ppl to fulfill His purpose in saving the lost. God could have picked the Jews up out of Egypt and planted them in the promised land, yet He chose to send Moses and Aaron to bring them out. It's not about what God could do, but what He has decreed to do. And it is via the gospel that is either proclaimed by His ppl or the bible they read that saves them. No one who has ever heard of Jesus will know to call out to Him. How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?[Romans 10:14] Paul gives three question here. The first one is how can anyone call on someone they have not believed in? They can't. Then he asks how can they believe in one in whom they have never heard about? They can't. Jesus said He was the only Way to the Father. Then his last question is how can they hear without it being preached? They can't. But I think witnessing is as effective as preaching when God works through that witnessing. God does not use anything other than the gospel that is proclaimed to the lost by His ppl, or being read in the bible to save the lost.




It is mystical when you say a tribe in deepest darkest Africa is saved w/o someone being a witness to them. God can do as He pleases, but we're not dealing with possibilities, but actualities.

2 Timothy 2:8-10 refutes it'suptome.

 

[preacher4truth]

I asked you previously how can someone find that which they did not seek for? If I lose a ball, unless I seek after it, I won't find it.

How did ppl find God, when they never sough after Him?

Because he and his Pelagius' espoused tradition overrules Scripture?

 

[SovereignGrace]

2 Timothy 2:8-10 refutes it'suptome.

Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel, for which I am suffering even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But God’s word is not chained. Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.[2 Timothy 2:8-10]

 

[SovereignGrace]

And yet Christ seeks and saves souls in places all over the world.

Yes He does. He sends His ppl to witness to them. He shall save(not try to save and fail) His ppl from their sins.[Matthew 1:21]

 

[John146]

2 Timothy 2:8-10 refutes it'suptome.

8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Paul suffered trouble as an evil doer from his brethren according to the flesh, the Jews. Paul endured all this suffering that even the Jews, God's elect of the seed of David, might also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus. The elect in this context is the nation of Israel. God elected Israel, through the seed of David, to be the people of flesh to birth the Messiah, Jesus Christ. Elect simply means God's choosing. Paul longed for the Jews to be saved.

Romans 9
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[SovereignGrace]

8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Paul suffered trouble as an evil doer from his brethren according to the flesh, the Jews. Paul endured all this suffering that even the Jews, God's elect of the seed of David, might also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus. The elect in this context is the nation of Israel. God elected Israel, through the seed of David, to be the people of flesh to birth the Messiah, Jesus Christ. Elect simply means God's choosing. Paul longed for the Jews to be saved.

Romans 9
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

The true Jews are those who have been circumcised in their hearts by the Spirit.[Romans 2:28,29]

 

[dcontroversal]

But God has His reasons and with Solomon God gave a promise to David about how He would deal with Davids son.. Did not Solomon by His own free will ask God to give him wisdom and was God not pleased with Solomon for not only asking for wisdom but for the reason he asked for it?

Yes God chooses whom He will have mercy on and whom he will not have mercy on.. But he does not select people at random. He has reasons for doing so, reasons that include the persons own free willed response to the will of God..

God is God.......He told Pharaoh.....UNTO this end is why I raised the up, He also raised up Cyrus and prophetically stated by Isaiah some 200 years ahead of schedule that he would USE Cyrus to allow his people to return BEFORE they had been carried away captive to Babylon.....

I think there is a balance to be struck........God knows the end from the beginning and being outside of time allows him to see the whole painting before it is done......Like Judas for example.....Did he have a choice or was he destined to sell Christ out?

He had a choice, made that choice and sold Jesus out for 30 pieces of silver.....God, having the ability to see the future and then end from the beginning was able to prophesy of Judas in the O.T. well before Judas came on the scene........

Having said that, we cannot alleviate the truth that MANY (not ALL) are called, but few are CHOSEN......God can if he chooses call all of humanity to salvation, but by his very word and nature which he will not break....will only CHOOSE those who believe and exercise faith........

The question is asked....can one be saved without hearing the word and exercising faith?

My answer as I have watched this thread..........Did David's first born with Bathsheba hear a message and exercise faith? YET DAVID, under inspiration states he would go to that child and see that child again......

God is fair, merciful and just......and we must balance free will, with election based upon all of the facts...not just a few verses one way or another.........just saying......

 

[John146]

The true Jews are those who have been circumcised in their hearts by the Spirit.[Romans 2:28,29]

Ok, but Paul is referring to his Jewish brethren according to the flesh. God's elect according to the flesh of whom Christ Jesus came.

 

[notuptome]

I asked you previously how can someone find that which they did not seek for? If I lose a ball, unless I seek after it, I won't find it.

How did ppl find God, when they never sough after Him?

Come on you know that Christ seeks us not we Him.

The ball cannot seek you but if the ball is valuable to you then you will seek the ball. How much more so the Lord of Glory the souls He created and loves with a love only God can possess.

The birth of Christ was heralded by angels to shepherds while in their fields.

Christ taught through the parables that we should expect a very thorough search for those souls that are lost.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

2 Timothy 2:8-10 refutes it'suptome.

Because he and his Pelagius' espoused tradition overrules Scripture?

If you have something to say how about you be man enough to say it to me directly and not resort to indirect sniping?

2 Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 ¶ Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[John146]

10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.

Demas, exercising his free will, turned aside from the ministry in pursuit of worldly things.

 

[BenFTW]

He doesn't use Scripture, he believes in his reason above it which is why it is rarely offered. Jesus didn't pay for the sins of each and every single human who has ever lived. Non-cals can't get past sentimentalism, mysticism, that God is God, and what "whole world" means contextually.

If you know God's Word, you would see the scripture within my posts. When I said that Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, did you forget that such words are found in the Bible (that you read daily)?

1 John 2:2 King James Version (KJV)

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

I may not always post chapter and verse, but be reassured that if you look carefully enough you'll see it.

 

[BenFTW]

Ppl, here is a prime example of the non-Cals retorts. They are chocked full of emotionalism, with nary a scripture verse.

As I said to preacher4truth, the words I spoke are found in scripture. I may not have posted the chapter and verse, but the words are plain for all to see. 1 John 2:2, as I am sure you are well aware.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jesus didn't pay for the sins of each and every single human who has ever lived. Non-cals can't get past sentimentalism, mysticism, that God is God, and what "whole world" means contextually.

More false accusations. And what about when the actual Scriptures are posted contextually, and the whole world is explained contextually as actually being the whole world, and Calvinists BLATANTLY reject plain Bible truth? Take a look at this -- the words of Christ Himself -- and tell us why the whole world does not mean the whole world.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:16,17 KJB).

 

[Nehemiah6]

As I said to preacher4truth, the words I spoke are found in scripture. I may not have posted the chapter and verse, but the words are plain for all to see. 1 John 2:2, as I am sure you are well aware.

You could post all the Scriptures in the world but it would not make an iota of difference to those who prefer the doctrines of men to the Word of God.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You could post all the Scriptures in the world but it would not make an iota of difference to those who prefer the doctrines of men to the Word of God.

Again, how was God found among those who did not seek after Him?