Baptism: is it required to be baptized in water?

[eternally-gratefull]

"the" english translation is flawed?? Which translation? All of them? Every English translation is flawed? What about the German, Spanish, French and Dutch they also don't translate it as "because of", so are all translations wrong?

The greek text does not say REPENT AND BE BAPTISED FOR REMISSION OF SIN. It does not. So any translation which says it does is flawed.

In the greek, Peter tells EVERYONE to repent, and the subject which they would recieve is the GIFT of the spirit.

He then told those who recieved this gift. Top be baptised based not he fact theory had recieved remission of sin.



Try learning some language skills. (Greek) And maybe then you will see.

 

[Donmech]

Let me get this straight, you think I have a cavalier attitude and you are disgusted by my *description* of baptism. Yet you would have us insert the clergyman into a necessary role in one's salvation by virtue of him performing a brief baptism ceremony. Are you a minister perhaps? Apparently it doesn't bother you to take away sole credit from God for salvation. You are making some preacher who gets his trousers wet standing in the baptismal for a few minutes a necessary component. And yet you are disgusted by me and my cavalier attitude. Funny that. Funny and sad.

And why did you feel it necessary to insert this unrelated barb about communion? Is this how you interact with others in real life? If someone asks you a hard question or raises a point you don't like, you make up something about them to denigrate their position? Vitriol much do you? Perhaps you should adopt a kinder and gentler tone as you interact with others on this message board.

Standard operating procedure for Chambellites, change subject, misdirect, jump all over the bible out of context, Use the Old testament when they think it benefits their waterdog works based agenda, but let someone try to claim an Old testament passage of scripture to shed light on the opposing view, oh no you cant do that, that's the Old Testament that don't apply to us now. The Chambellites will jump back and forth all day to try and make a point but the rest of us are not aloud too.

 

[CS1]

This came up in another thread and I didn't want to move that thread off topic so I started another.

Is it required to be baptized in water?

Personally, I do not believe it is required.

we are commanded to baptize those believers mATT 28:19 " Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

In Acts chapter 2 Peter under the insparation of the Holy Spirit said in verse 38 : "[FONT=&quot]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

how is it that we would not be obedient as Following Christ in to Baptizim as HE was ?. is the servant greater than his Master ?

why is Baptsim inmportant ? the Bible says Believe and be Baptized meaning we need to learn "[/FONT]praxis" . belive in the LOrd Jesus Christ which saves you then PRAXIS! have faith that produces Action to what you confess .

 

[hornetguy]

Let me get this straight, you think I have a cavalier attitude and you are disgusted by my *description* of baptism. Yet you would have us insert the clergyman into a necessary role in one's salvation by virtue of him performing a brief baptism ceremony. Are you a minister perhaps? Apparently it doesn't bother you to take away sole credit from God for salvation. You are making some preacher who gets his trousers wet standing in the baptismal for a few minutes a necessary component. And yet you are disgusted by me and my cavalier attitude. Funny that. Funny and sad.


Standard operating procedure for Chambellites, change subject, misdirect, jump all over the bible out of context, Use the Old testament when they think it benefits their waterdog works based agenda, but let someone try to claim an Old testament passage of scripture to shed light on the opposing view, oh no you cant do that, that's the Old Testament that don't apply to us now. The Chambellites will jump back and forth all day to try and make a point but the rest of us are not aloud too.

What in the blue blazes are you ranting about? Did your meds just kick in?

and, by the way, it's "Campbellites" .... no "h" needed.

You seem to be taking this personally. What specifically would you like to discuss? Or do you just want to rant, and move on?

 

[hornetguy]

we are commanded to baptize those believers mATT 28:19 " Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

In Acts chapter 2 Peter under the insparation of the Holy Spirit said in verse 38 : "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

how is it that we would not be obedient as Following Christ in to Baptizim as HE was ?. is the servant greater than his Master ?

why is Baptsim inmportant ? the Bible says Believe and be Baptized meaning we need to learn "praxis" . belive in the LOrd Jesus Christ which saves you then PRAXIS! have faith that produces Action to what you confess .

I'm pretty sure I agree with most of what you said.

Bottom line, baptism is important to the point of being necessary. We were commanded to do it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm pretty sure I agree with most of what you said.

Bottom line, baptism is important to the point of being necessary. We were commanded to do it.

we are commanded to do a lot of things, and we should do them all. But to claim one is saved BECAUSE of doing even one of them, is claiming we save ourself by our own work. Which means Grace is basically nullified.

 

[John146]

Concerning Acts 2:38...

What shall we do?" The question is being asked by a group of people within a Nation to whom a national message has been addressed, in regards to their RULER - You can read Romans - Philemon back into the passage until you are red-white-blue in the face, but you cannot make it refer to a sinner trying to find "the way to Heaven" without wresting the scriptures to your own destruction. There is no "plan of Salvation" in the chapter, at least as it is revealed and preached from (Acts 8 to 29).

The three questions in Acts are:

[1]. Israel - "What shall we do?"

[2]. The converted sinner - "Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?"

[3]. The unsaved Gentile - "What must I do to be saved?

 

[notuptome]

we are commanded to baptize those believers mATT 28:19 " Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

In Acts chapter 2 Peter under the insparation of the Holy Spirit said in verse 38 : "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

how is it that we would not be obedient as Following Christ in to Baptizim as HE was ?. is the servant greater than his Master ?

why is Baptsim inmportant ? the Bible says Believe and be Baptized meaning we need to learn "praxis" . belive in the LOrd Jesus Christ which saves you then PRAXIS! have faith that produces Action to what you confess .

All well and good except it's not talking about water baptism.

The only baptism that remits sin is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Believers rarely do what they are commanded to do. Many do not go and teach the nations. Many fail in their command to witness and testify of Christ. Does not mean they are not saved.

It is the Holy Spirit that brings eternal life to the soul dead in sin and trespass. Titus 3:5

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[hornetguy]

we are commanded to do a lot of things, and we should do them all. But to claim one is saved BECAUSE of doing even one of them, is claiming we save ourself by our own work. Which means Grace is basically nullified.

That's why I didn't say that.

 

[hornetguy]

All well and good except it's not talking about water baptism.

The only baptism that remits sin is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Believers rarely do what they are commanded to do. Many do not go and teach the nations. Many fail in their command to witness and testify of Christ. Does not mean they are not saved.

It is the Holy Spirit that brings eternal life to the soul dead in sin and trespass. Titus 3:5

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I disagree. Jesus was talking about baptism. Water baptism.

And, how would you baptize someone into the Spirit, in the NAME of the Spirit?

IMO, and understanding, the baptism into the Spirit happens when we are water baptized, or shortly thereafter. Acts 2:38 tells us that.

 

[plaintalk]

# 224 "Is there salvation for people, not baptized, who have faith and have received the Holy Spirit? Or are they lost because they haven't gone through the water baptism ceremony?"

Response: This is one question that is pretty well answered in the Scriptures, Cornelius and his household were in that situation; Cornelius and his people were baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 11: 15, 16) and Peter responded, "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he? And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Christ." This was a command not a suggestion; baptism in water in the name of Christ is not a "I may or I may not do kind of thing."

As for the second part of your question, those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel await eternal destruction. (2 Thess. 1: 8, 9) Yes, we are saved by grace (Eph. 2:8) through faith which is our introduction to grace (Rom. 5: 2); but if our concept of saving faith is one dimensional. merely believing, then we need to rethink our idea of faith because saving faith includes both love and obedience. (1 Cor. 13: 2; Heb. 5: 9)
It is incredible that some on this forum would refer to baptism as a work of man when it is commanded by God. "Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness. But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you have become obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. (Rom. 6: 16- 18) Baptism in the name of Christ is a work of God, a work of faith.
May God bless us in our study.

 

[notuptome]

I disagree. Jesus was talking about baptism. Water baptism.

And, how would you baptize someone into the Spirit, in the NAME of the Spirit?

IMO, and understanding, the baptism into the Spirit happens when we are water baptized, or shortly thereafter. Acts 2:38 tells us that.

I've been trying to tell you that your understanding is incorrect. Baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs the instant we believe and receive Christ as Savior. That is what happened in Acts 2:38 & 41. Not water but Holy Spirit. The same Holy Spirit Jesus breathed upon the disciples in the upper room. John 20.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I disagree. Jesus was talking about baptism. Water baptism.

And, how would you baptize someone into the Spirit, in the NAME of the Spirit?

We can not baptise anyone with the HS, No one can. Only God can, and He does. On all and to all who are saved by faith, not by works of righteousness, but by his own mercy.

Matt 3: 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Luke 3: John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

IMO, and understanding, the baptism into the Spirit happens when we are water baptized, or shortly thereafter. Acts 2:38 tells us that.

It happens the moment you have faith, Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word. It is not done by the hands of men, but is the spiritual baptism completed by the hand of God, who by the way rose Jesus from the dead (col 2) God is not obligated to wait until we have the opportunity to go get baptised. He will do it the moment you are saved.

 

[hornetguy]

I've been trying to tell you that your understanding is incorrect. Baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs the instant we believe and receive Christ as Savior. That is what happened in Acts 2:38 & 41. Not water but Holy Spirit. The same Holy Spirit Jesus breathed upon the disciples in the upper room. John 20.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I understand that is what you are trying to tell me. I could just as easily tell YOU that. We understand things the way we understand them.

I don't see any indication that the thousands of Jews at Pentecost received the Spirit before they were baptized. The only instance I remember of that happening was the household of Cornelius, when God's Spirit came on those Gentiles before they were baptized... this was a one-time happening to prove something to the Jews, who still thought salvation was only for them.. God's "chosen" people.

Paul even said as much..... "why would you refuse to baptize these Gentiles when God has SHOWN you that they are acceptable, because they have received the Spirit! So we need to baptize them!"

Why would Peter say "be Holy Spirit baptized, and you'll receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" ? That makes absolutely NO sense. He told them to be baptized in the name of Jesus (which they ALL understood to be water baptized in Jesus' name) and they would receive a wonderful gift... the Holy Spirit.

So, you disagree with my understanding, and I disagree with yours.

Read scripture with open eyes and no pre-conceived notions. It's pretty plain, brother.

 

[hornetguy]

We can not baptise anyone with the HS, No one can. Only God can, and He does. On all and to all who are saved by faith, not by works of righteousness, but by his own mercy.

Matt 3: 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Luke 3: John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.



It happens the moment you have faith, Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word. It is not done by the hands of men, but is the spiritual baptism completed by the hand of God, who by the way rose Jesus from the dead (col 2) God is not obligated to wait until we have the opportunity to go get baptised. He will do it the moment you are saved.

that sounds really good... where is the scriptural evidence of that being the "way it happens" ?

 

[notuptome]

I understand that is what you are trying to tell me. I could just as easily tell YOU that. We understand things the way we understand them.

I don't see any indication that the thousands of Jews at Pentecost received the Spirit before they were baptized. The only instance I remember of that happening was the household of Cornelius, when God's Spirit came on those Gentiles before they were baptized... this was a one-time happening to prove something to the Jews, who still thought salvation was only for them.. God's "chosen" people.

Paul even said as much..... "why would you refuse to baptize these Gentiles when God has SHOWN you that they are acceptable, because they have received the Spirit! So we need to baptize them!"

Why would Peter say "be Holy Spirit baptized, and you'll receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" ? That makes absolutely NO sense. He told them to be baptized in the name of Jesus (which they ALL understood to be water baptized in Jesus' name) and they would receive a wonderful gift... the Holy Spirit.

So, you disagree with my understanding, and I disagree with yours.

Read scripture with open eyes and no pre-conceived notions. It's pretty plain, brother.

I have read and studied the scripture on this subject.

Have you ever considered the logistical problems with water baptism of 3000 souls? Notwithstanding the structure in the Greek does not support water baptism.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit by God is where the gift of the Holy Spirit is imparted to the believer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

that sounds really good... where is the scriptural evidence of that being the "way it happens" ?

Well it is actually pretty simple

Rom 6 states when we are cleaned, when we are immersed into the death and burial of Christ. This can only be done by God. No pastor can do this. So it MUST be baptism of the spirit.

titus 3, Not by works of righteousness which we have done (not by water baptism or any other work) but by his mercy HE SAVED US, by the WASHING and RENEWAL of the HS (God does the work)

Col 2: 12 states our spiritual circumcision done by the hands of God is done by our baptism into his death, whcih is performed again by God,. In which we too are raised with him in the work of God, who rose him from the dead. (Again God does the work)

Jesus said he had a baptism to be baptised with (the cross) and that we too would be baptised with this baptism (not water., but the cross) Only God can take us to the cross..

But you want to see water wherever you see the greek verb so it makes sense why you can Not see it.

We also have the OT symbol. Where the priest is taken to the Jordan and washed (baptised) then the sacrifice is given, then he is anointed by the holy opal, which we are told is the Holy Spirit.

but again, You want to see water everywhere as if that water is special. So..

 

[DJ2]

I have read and studied the scripture on this subject.

Have you ever considered the logistical problems with water baptism of 3000 souls? Notwithstanding the structure in the Greek does not support water baptism.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit by God is where the gift of the Holy Spirit is imparted to the believer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I have read and studied the scripture on this subject.

Yet still refuse to believe.

Have you ever considered the logistical problems with water baptism of 3000 souls? Notwithstanding the structure in the Greek does not support water baptism.

I sincerely doubt you have a grasp of either the logistical or greek issues of Acts 2.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit by God is where the gift of the Holy Spirit is imparted to the believer.

According to Acts 2:38 its water baptism not anything called baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[hornetguy]

titus 3, Not by works of righteousness which we have done (not by water baptism or any other work) but by his mercy HE SAVED US, by the WASHING and RENEWAL of the HS (God does the work)

You are adding your own flawed thinking in there... baptism is NOT a "work".... it is an act of obedience.

He said it happens by two things... the washing of regeneration, and the renewing of the Holy Spirit. Two separate things.

We understand what the renewing of the Holy Spirit is.... what do you suppose the "washing of regeneration" could be? What other term, even by YOUR explanations, is used to signify a "washing" ?

 

[hornetguy]

Col 2: 12 states our spiritual circumcision done by the hands of God is done by our baptism into his death, whcih is performed again by God,. In which we too are raised with him in the work of God, who rose him from the dead. (Again God does the work)

Again, you are putting YOUR spin on what scripture says. Water baptism is a representation of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus...

[SUP]3[/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [SUP]4[/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. [SUP]5[/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: [SUP]6[/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. [SUP]7[/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.

by doing that, we are joining with Jesus in his death, burial, and resurrection. It is a physical representation of the spiritual happening.