Not By Works
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AMEN...and you would be correct because you....
a. Judged my gospel by the word and deemed it false
b. Judged my stance before the Lord as lost because of my belief into "a"
c. Was biblical because you corrected my false gospel "a" and gave me the correct message which can save my eternal soul
d. Was biblical because God has instructed us to witness his truth to all who are in error
Why is it so hard for some to understand that we are all accountable to God and if one is in error and we do not speak up that we will be held accountable for their blood........
Why is it so hard for some to understand that we are not judging the people themselves, but rather their gospel..........
a. Judged my gospel by the word and deemed it false
b. Judged my stance before the Lord as lost because of my belief into "a"
c. Was biblical because you corrected my false gospel "a" and gave me the correct message which can save my eternal soul
d. Was biblical because God has instructed us to witness his truth to all who are in error
Why is it so hard for some to understand that we are all accountable to God and if one is in error and we do not speak up that we will be held accountable for their blood........
Why is it so hard for some to understand that we are not judging the people themselves, but rather their gospel..........
I agree that we all are in different situations of growth. The problems come from straying from the topic. Which I confess I just did, but felt that I needed to address what Ralph said.
We do have Holy Spirit so intertwined with our own spirit that we are one with God. That will never change. But, but what Ralph was saying was that His Presence would leave if one sinned. He is calling sin disobedience. That's the first error. Unbelief is disobedience.
Christians will rebel at times. To deny this is to hide oneselves heads in sand so to speak. But, Holy Spirit outwardly will not leave, but back away until restoration occurs.
So there is my mistake in not keeping to topic.
We do have Holy Spirit so intertwined with our own spirit that we are one with God. That will never change. But, but what Ralph was saying was that His Presence would leave if one sinned. He is calling sin disobedience. That's the first error. Unbelief is disobedience.
Christians will rebel at times. To deny this is to hide oneselves heads in sand so to speak. But, Holy Spirit outwardly will not leave, but back away until restoration occurs.
So there is my mistake in not keeping to topic.
Too many are ignoring the relationship of faith and works. Without works faith is dead. True faith impels us to do works.
James 2
Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
James 2
Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
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I don't know if I agree with the statement back away......the bible speaks to grieving the Spirit by our actions ..The same Spirit whereby we are sealed until the day of redemption...as well as convincing, convicting, leading and guiding.....maybe the word suppress is a better way to look at it or even quench......I would think the Spirit is consistent and constant in o=how it deals with us, but maybe we are able by our actions able to suppress or quench the working of the spirit by a hardened and seared conscience....does that make sense?
Nobody is ignoring anything......this thread is about the proper order and perspective concerning both and the reality of the types of works believers can and do have.....
Salvation is given based UPON FAITH.....there are NO WORKS involved in gaining the eternal life afforded by being saved due to said faith......a man cannot produce one work or piece of fruit unless ALREADY PLACED INTO THE VINE BY FAITH AND SALVATION....that is what this thread is about.....many who peddle works and say that a man is not saved UNLESS......have placed the cart 100 yards in front of the OX and expect the cart to drag the OX kicking and bellowing all the way home.....
Not sure Dcon. Suppress would be an inward thing in my thinking. I say back off because that is what I was taught.
All I know for certainty is that there are workings of Holy Spirit within us to do the creating of our soul to come into agreement with what we have in Spirit. This would be more about the character of deity or the image of Jesus being formed in us. But, being "in the Spirit" is something that happens in ministry of power.
I think quench would fit. Our thought process must have a lot to do with this. Renewing our mind to what the Word says we are in Christ, and what we have been given through Him. Lies of the enemy would suppress truth.
All I know for certainty is that there are workings of Holy Spirit within us to do the creating of our soul to come into agreement with what we have in Spirit. This would be more about the character of deity or the image of Jesus being formed in us. But, being "in the Spirit" is something that happens in ministry of power.
I think quench would fit. Our thought process must have a lot to do with this. Renewing our mind to what the Word says we are in Christ, and what we have been given through Him. Lies of the enemy would suppress truth.
R
The person who is saved but who is disobedient loses the MANIFEST presence of the Holy Spirit.
You don't get to enjoy the confirmation of your salvation when you venture out of God's love into a life of sin. Sin shuts the felt presence of the Holy Spirit down. You not only lose the confirmation of your works that you are saved, but you also lose the confirmation of God's presence that you are saved when you live in hypocrisy.
So the 'oh, yeah, I'm saved, I can feel it' goes right out the window for the person who claims to be saved but is living in hypocrisy. When a person claims they are saved but then lives in hypocrisy they have no assurance of their works or the Spirit that they are saved. The once saved always saved argument then becomes meaningless because they don't even know if they're saved to begin with for it to apply to them.
You don't get to enjoy the confirmation of your salvation when you venture out of God's love into a life of sin. Sin shuts the felt presence of the Holy Spirit down. You not only lose the confirmation of your works that you are saved, but you also lose the confirmation of God's presence that you are saved when you live in hypocrisy.
So the 'oh, yeah, I'm saved, I can feel it' goes right out the window for the person who claims to be saved but is living in hypocrisy. When a person claims they are saved but then lives in hypocrisy they have no assurance of their works or the Spirit that they are saved. The once saved always saved argument then becomes meaningless because they don't even know if they're saved to begin with for it to apply to them.
And your not God....judge nothing before the time.....there has been fruit that your not privy to.......the word does not return void and accomplishes what God wants it to accomplish...all the scripture quoted is not returning unto God void...this alone proves your bolded, false, judgmental statement to be error.......
You continually forget the promises of God to His own. We didn't come into the Kingdom by our own, we were drawn. We won't be hypocritical, but may have times of hypocrisy. God corrects.
Once saved is past, continually saved is present, and entering the kingdom of heaven is future. Salvation is His work. Beginning to end.
Once saved is past, continually saved is present, and entering the kingdom of heaven is future. Salvation is His work. Beginning to end.
I know what you are saying pin. Sea is the roaring of the mass of people. For the body of Christ, yes we have entered His rest. Ceasing from our works of trying to please God, and putting faith in His. Not all think symbolically, so explanation is needed.
But, plain speaking is in this thread.
Not sure what you mean by the right hand of falseness. The right hand is the Son. The Bride is the left.
But, plain speaking is in this thread.
Not sure what you mean by the right hand of falseness. The right hand is the Son. The Bride is the left.
R
{
Originally Posted by Ralph-
Time to get right with Christ, Freegracers.}
Time to get right with Christ, Freegracers.}
Wonder why we so easily accuse one another of not even being born again? I think it would be simpler to just kindly debate these doctrinal issues without making statements or conclusions about another's eternal destiny.
Are you aware this is the new grace doctrine in the church today? It says you not only do not need works after believing the gospel you don't even need to keep believing to be saved when Jesus comes back. Of course there are variations on a theme, but the fundamental belief does not vary.
The truly dangerous and insidious part about this is people are still clinging onto the old once saved always saved doctrine while they grasp the new. So in one argument they'll defend not having a change of life, then in the next argument they'll defend all believers having works. And so you can never nail them down to what they actually believe. But at the end of the day one thing is clear, the new grace teaching ultimately wins out in them.
Arrogance is all ive read come from your post.
And i know why you would speak to me just as iyovs accusers did. The enemy reviles those who testify of the Truth.
No More Sea
Psalm 144 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
1
(0)
By David:
(1) Blessed be Adonai, my rock,
who trains my hands for war
and my fingers for battle.
2 He shows me grace; and he is my fortress,
my stronghold, in whom I find shelter,
my shield, in whom I take refuge,
who subdues my people under me.
3 Adonai, what are mere mortals,
that you notice them at all;
humans, that you think about them?
4 Man is like a puff of wind,
his days like a fleeting shadow.
5 Adonai, lower the heavens, and come down;
touch the mountains, make them pour out smoke.
6 Shoot out lightning, and scatter them;
send out your arrows, and rout them.
7 Reach out your hands from on high;
rescue me; save me out of deep water,
out of the power of strangers,
8 whose mouths speak worthless words
and whose right hands swear false oaths.
9 God, I will sing a new song to you;
sing praises to you with a ten-stringed harp.
10 You give kings their victories;
you save your servant David from the cruel sword.
11 Rescue me, save me from the power of strangers,
whose mouths speak worthless words
and whose right hands swear false oaths.
12 Our sons in their youth will be
like full-grown saplings,
our daughters will be like sculptured pillars
fit for the corner of a palace.
13 Our barns are full with crops of every kind;
the sheep in our fields number thousands, tens of thousands.
14 our oxen are well-fed,
our city walls have no breach,
our people are not taken captive,
and there are no cries of protest in our cities’ open places.
15 How happy the people who live in such conditions!
How happy the people whose God is Adonai!
And i know why you would speak to me just as iyovs accusers did. The enemy reviles those who testify of the Truth.
No More Sea
Psalm 144 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
1
(0)
By David:
(1) Blessed be Adonai, my rock,
who trains my hands for war
and my fingers for battle.
2 He shows me grace; and he is my fortress,
my stronghold, in whom I find shelter,
my shield, in whom I take refuge,
who subdues my people under me.
3 Adonai, what are mere mortals,
that you notice them at all;
humans, that you think about them?
4 Man is like a puff of wind,
his days like a fleeting shadow.
5 Adonai, lower the heavens, and come down;
touch the mountains, make them pour out smoke.
6 Shoot out lightning, and scatter them;
send out your arrows, and rout them.
7 Reach out your hands from on high;
rescue me; save me out of deep water,
out of the power of strangers,
8 whose mouths speak worthless words
and whose right hands swear false oaths.
9 God, I will sing a new song to you;
sing praises to you with a ten-stringed harp.
10 You give kings their victories;
you save your servant David from the cruel sword.
11 Rescue me, save me from the power of strangers,
whose mouths speak worthless words
and whose right hands swear false oaths.
12 Our sons in their youth will be
like full-grown saplings,
our daughters will be like sculptured pillars
fit for the corner of a palace.
13 Our barns are full with crops of every kind;
the sheep in our fields number thousands, tens of thousands.
14 our oxen are well-fed,
our city walls have no breach,
our people are not taken captive,
and there are no cries of protest in our cities’ open places.
15 How happy the people who live in such conditions!
How happy the people whose God is Adonai!
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