Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull

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#53,741
mj007 said:
How do you know that about people, based on what they say? Or do you just take anything you happen to disagree with, exaggerate it and confidently assume that they are not saved compared to yourself? This is what it is about, you, you, you.

You, you, you.
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Me? Show me were I have spoken about me? And while your at it. Prove me wrong.

Can you prove what I said wrong? Or are you just going to judge me? If your just going to judge me, Thgen go away. We are done. If you want to continue to talk. Then prove The points I said were wrong.

If you can not die either of these two. Then please go away. Because I am sick playing kids games.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#53,742
Nov 24, 2013
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dcontroversal said:
True story.....

One grandfather who was a truck driving drunk got cancer and through the efforts of my brother trusted JESUS as his savior....he had ZERO works for GOD and went to his death easy, happy, rejoicing and in peace.

Another grandfather who was a hyper religious charismatic group that emphasized works as part of the equation and a secret closet drunk and a particularly judgmental man pushed works his whole life just as those in this thread do....the exact same arguments and scriptures out of context...he got cancer and went to his grave denying eternal life based upon faith but rather pushed his works the whole way. He went out hard and on his death bed flailed about screaming that he was catching on fire and begging to be pulled from the fire.

The above is absolute truth.....both of them were grandfathers by marriage to my brother and I..............

P.S. The bolded above is not meant to point a finger at any particular group....just the facts.......
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This is something I don't understand Dcon...and I know what you are talking about. Pentecostal groups that are like this, I steer clear of. And I mentioned how one time I went into one, a woman screamed, turned in circles...and I promptly walked out. I did not believe that to be God.

But, those that are free? The meetings are life! And the most targeted as heretic.

but, that's another thread...:)
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#53,743
Mar 9, 2014
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#53,743
This is what it is about, you, you, you.

You, you, you.
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No. That would be those who push the retention of salvation via works.
 
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mj007

Banned
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Feb 5, 2017
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#53,745
It's impossible to ever prove a me, me, me person wrong, because they are never wrong, obviously!

eternally-gratefull said:
Me? Show me were I have spoken about me? And while your at it. Prove me wrong.

Can you prove what I said wrong? Or are you just going to judge me? If your just going to judge me, Thgen go away. We are done. If you want to continue to talk. Then prove The points I said were wrong.

If you can not die either of these two. Then please go away. Because I am sick playing kids games.
Click to expand...
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#53,747
#53,747
mj007 said:
It's impossible to ever prove a me, me, me person wrong, because they are never wrong, obviously!
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That is just bull and you know it. Now your running from the truth, because you know your wrong.

I posted what I hear those people say according to the verses I used. And they differe in view from my view, Either you can prove they do not say those things, or you will have to agree with me that they do

And then as for ME ME ME, You can show were I have said anything about me, where I am boasting of my work, Where I am boasting of my righteousness, Where I am boasting of anything in myself.

Your the one who made the chage, If your an not prove it, then you just proved you made a charge which you could not even prove yourself.


Either back your claims. Or as I said, go away. Because you have destroyed your own reliability
 
7777pinacled

7777pinacled

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Dec 4, 2017
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stonesoffire said:
This thread is on fire today.. I can't get caught up!
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no need to,

this thread is a reminder of the fig tree with no fruits to feed our Lord.

“Here is what Adonai-Tzva’ot, the God of Isra’el, says to all those in exile, whom I have caused to be carried off captive from Yerushalayim to Bavel: 5 ‘Build yourselves houses, and live in them. Plant gardens, and eat what they produce. 6 Choose women to marry, and have sons and daughters. Choose wives for your sons, and give your daughters in marriage to men, so that they can have sons and daughters — increase your numbers there, don’t decrease. 7 Seek the welfare of the city to which I have caused you to go in exile, and pray to Adonai on its behalf; for your welfare is bound up in its welfare.’

8 For this is what Adonai-Tzva’ot, the God of Isra’el, says: ‘Don’t let your prophets who are living among you and your diviners deceive you, and don’t pay attention to the dreams you urge them to dream. 9 For they are prophesying falsely in my name; I have not sent them,’ says Adonai.

10 “For here is what Adonai says: ‘After Bavel’s seventy years are over, I will remember you and fulfill my good promise to you by bringing you back to this place. 11 For I know what plans I have in mind for you,’ says Adonai,‘plans for well-being, not for bad things; so that you can have hope and a future. 12 When you call to me and pray to me, I will listen to you. 13 When you seek me, you will find me, provided you seek for me wholeheartedly; 14 and I will let you find me,’ says Adonai. ‘Then I will reverse your exile. I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have driven you,’ says Adonai, ‘and bring you back to the place from which I exiled you.’


figs or lack of?
15 “You say that Adonai has raised up prophets for you in Bavel. 16 But here is what Adonai says about the king occupying David’s throne and about all the people living in this city, your kinsmen who did not go into exile with you — 17 thus says Adonai-Tzva’ot:
‘I will attack them with sword, famine and plague; I will make them like bad figs, so bad they are inedible. 18 I will pursue them with sword, famine and plague and make them an object of horror to all the kingdoms of the earth; and they will bring on themselves cursing, astonishment, ridicule and reproach among all the nations where I have driven them; 19 because they have not paid attention to my words,’ says Adonai, ‘which I sent to them through my servants the prophets. I sent them frequently, but you refused to listen,’ says Adonai.
20 “So pay attention now to the word of Adonai, all of you in exile, whom I sent away from Yerushalayim to Bavel. 21 Here is what Adonai-Tzva’ot, the God of Isra’el, says about Ach’av the son of Kolayah and Tzidkiyahu the son of Ma‘aseiyah, who prophesy lies to you in my name: ‘I will hand them over to N’vukhadretzar king of Bavel, and he will put them to death before your eyes. 22 In fact, all those exiled from Y’hudah who are in Bavel will take up this formula for cursing:

“May Adonai make you like Tzidkiyahu and Ach’av, whom the king of Bavel roasted in the fire!” 23 because they have done vile things in Isra’el, committing adultery with their neighbors’ wives and speaking words in my name, falsely, which I did not order them to say. For I am he who knows; I am witness to this,’ says Adonai.
 
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BillG

BillG

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Feb 15, 2017
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#53,752
If I wake up tomorrow I'm still human. If not I'm with Jesus.
So if you never see me after tonight you know where I am.

That being the case see you all soon
 
Budman

Budman

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Mar 9, 2014
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#53,753
BillG said:
If I wake up tomorrow I'm still human. If not I'm with Jesus.
So if you never see me after tonight you know where I am.

That being the case see you all soon
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Well, that was cryptic! :D
 
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mj007

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Feb 5, 2017
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As I said to your buddy Budman, I get things wrong, I make mistakes, I have good and bad days. What about you?

And destroying my own reliability, this is according to your 'we' collective. You don't stand for everyone out there, just your 'we' collective, who will all like each others posts, especially if its against one of 'them'. For some reason, you guys like these kinds of things more than that of substance worth liking.

So yes, what about you? Is there a human in there? Do you think I'm trying to break you apart? Not really, only the outside. I never see the inside, but I am sure there is more of Christ there, and you have a lot to share with others in kindness. As a saved person, surely you would not be afraid to show the more vulnerable side of you, what is there to fear? There is nothing to fear with God by your side. But is God by your side, when you say the things you do, when you rebuke, and when you love to see rebuke from others, as they do too? Is that God? Is that the Holy Spirit?

If works have very little importance, not to salvation, but, of being a part of salvation that you have, not to keep it alive, not to keep it, just as an outcome of salvation, then why don't you show it more? What do you fear?


eternally-gratefull said:
That is just bull and you know it. Now your running from the truth, because you know your wrong.

I posted what I hear those people say according to the verses I used. And they differe in view from my view, Either you can prove they do not say those things, or you will have to agree with me that they do

And then as for ME ME ME, You can show were I have said anything about me, where I am boasting of my work, Where I am boasting of my righteousness, Where I am boasting of anything in myself.

Your the one who made the chage, If your an not prove it, then you just proved you made a charge which you could not even prove yourself.


Either back your claims. Or as I said, go away. Because you have destroyed your own reliability
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#53,755
#53,755
mj007 said:
As I said to your buddy Budman, I get things wrong, I make mistakes, I have good and bad days. What about you?
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Of course, but what does that have to do with our discussion? You made accusations (I speak only fo self. And I am wrong about what I think others believe) can you back them up or not> If you were wrong, and can not. just admit it, As you said we all make mistakes. All will be forgiven.


And destroying my own reliability, this is according to your 'we' collective. You don't stand for everyone out there, just your 'we' collective, who will all like each others posts, especially if its against one of 'them'. For some reason, you guys like these kinds of things more than that of substance worth liking.

So yes, what about you? Is there a human in there? Do you think I'm trying to break you apart? Not really, only the outside. I never see the inside, but I am sure there is more of Christ there, and you have a lot to share with others in kindness. As a saved person, surely you would not be afraid to show the more vulnerable side of you, what is there to fear? There is nothing to fear with God by your side. But is God by your side, when you say the things you do, when you rebuke, and when you love to see rebuke from others, as they do too? Is that God? Is that the Holy Spirit?

If works have very little importance, not to salvation, but, of being a part of salvation that you have, not to keep it alive, not to keep it, just as an outcome of salvation, then why don't you show it more? What do you fear?
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Dude, you made accusations. Can you back your accusations or not? If you can not just say so and I will move on.

If you can, Then please once again.

1. Show where I am speaking in a way which can be interpreted as self centered (where I boast in self)
2. Show me an wrong about what I think other people say about those verses


 
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ElAmor

Banned
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Dec 22, 2017
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#53,756
BillG said:
Do you?
Is there any the time when your not obedient?
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To claim that i have a genuine faith is not enough and is merely a claim until I walk in true righteousness and holiness as a new creation walking in the light and not in darkness.

If i say that i don't obey God then i would have no love for God but if i have unintentionally disobeyed God, i have the Lord Jesus to intercede for me.

Ephesians 4:22-32 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body. “In your anger do not sin”: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and do not give the devil a foothold. He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need. Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
 
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mj007

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Feb 5, 2017
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When we get off our high horse and remember we are all human, and we are mostly in the same boat, and we are supposed to be helping each other, not correcting each other (did that work on you at school, or did your parents treat you that way?) then that is what matters.

Those who believe they are saved, should really express kindness to others, if they really are saved, surely that is a sign of it? Even if in disagreement with the view of others. You can always put things another way. Liars, heretics, false teachers, false gospel, whatever, who uses this language? Do you use it in your real life? The fact is, probably not.

Try being yourself, just the way God made you. God made you a child, not a parent (non-literally). I sometimes think the ones who act like everyones parent, are the biggest kids. I'm sure dcon for example is a big kid in real life, while trying to make out he is something more here. Well be a big kid here!

Yes, not by works, but surely works are an outcome??
 
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mj007

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Feb 5, 2017
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#53,758
Why does it matter to you so much?

Why don't you instead respond to something positive I said. Are you really such a brick wall? I don't want you to be a brick wall.

My name is Mark, what is yours?

eternally-gratefull said:
Of course, but what does that have to do with our discussion? You made accusations (I speak only fo self. And I am wrong about what I think others believe) can you back them up or not> If you were wrong, and can not. just admit it, As you said we all make mistakes. All will be forgiven.




Dude, you made accusations. Can you back your accusations or not? If you can not just say so and I will move on.

If you can, Then please once again.

1. Show where I am speaking in a way which can be interpreted as self centered (where I boast in self)
2. Show me an wrong about what I think other people say about those verses
Click to expand...
 
Budman

Budman

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Mar 9, 2014
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we are supposed to be helping each other, not correcting each other
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"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:16)

We help each other by correcting each other.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#53,760
#53,760
mj007 said:
Why does it matter to you so much?

Why don't you instead respond to something positive I said. Are you really such a brick wall? I don't want you to be a brick wall.

My name is Mark, what is yours?
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in other words, You judged me of being self centered, and lieing about what others believe, But you can not explain why

Does it matter? Of course not. Well it does to you, because it shows you make accusations which are unfounded. It does not hurt me at all.

My name is Bryan. But that is not the topic. If I make a judgment on something you say, And I can not back my words. Then I would be untrustworthy. Why you think the same does not apply to you. Well. I do nto know.
 
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