Not By Works

[star]

Why do we place such emphasis on "what we do." God looks at our heart, motive first and foremost.

As for rewards, well I'm sure I won't have any but I'm not going to worry about it because all I want is to spend eternity with our sovereign Creator, God Almighty, maker of Heaven and Earth.

And as for "what we do" are we to go around trying to prove our salvation to others? Not me. It is God I am concerned with and that He knows my heart/soul and that He has done all the work for my salvation and sealed it with the seal of the Holy Spirit.

 

[heartofdavid]

I was reading in james this am
Thought of you guys
In 5 vs 9 there is something about judgement on brothers who hold grudges.

Uh oh

 

[Ralph-]

see
can you please when you have time explain to me what you mean "show they have the righteousness of Christ"

The righteousness of Christ isn't just a legal declaration of right standing with God. When we get legally declared righteous through our faith in Christ we receive the Holy Spirit. This Holy Spirit is how we then produce actual righteous works. Those righteous works show us to have the righteousness of God that produced them.

People who have righteous works show that they have the Holy Spirit in them which only those who are declared legally righteous through faith in Christ have. That's why righteous living, or 'doing right' is the sign that you have been justified in Christ apart from the merit of works.

Just as literal circumcision and literal Sabbath rest were signs in the old covenant that you were in covenant with God through Moses, so it is that rest from the works of the flesh and a putting off of the works of the flesh in a circumcising of the heart in this New Covenant are the signs that you are in Covenant with God through Christ.


Bottom line, people who have righteous works show they have the Holy Spirit in them which only people justified by faith apart from works have.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

We tend to swing open two separate subject doors from talking about serving God from the premise of working for Salvation, to, living as one who is saved

i can assure you thats not what im doing

 

[slave]

i can assure you thats not what im doing

I wasn't accusing you for many have done this, but it is nice to hear that you aren't.

 

[Ralph-]

And as for "what we do" are we to go around trying to prove our salvation to others?

Maybe, maybe not.

What the Bible says is you are to make your salvation sure TO YOURSELF. And we know we are saved by if we are producing the fruit of the kingdom, not by someone telling you you can't lose your salvation.

If the person with soil #2 in the Parable of the Sower starting posting in this thread, many here would tell them they are saved no matter what. How can they say that? As we see, the person with #2 type soil stopped believing, yet many would have insisted that they were definitely saved because salvation can not be lost no matter what. Assurance of salvation does not come from a once saved always doctrine. It comes from if you are changed/changing.

Not me. It is God I am concerned with and that He knows my heart/soul and that He has done all the work for my salvation and sealed it with the seal of the Holy Spirit.

You know if that's true for sure by if you're producing righteous works and putting to death the desires of the flesh. Not perfectly, of course. Just that that is the pattern and net movement of your life.

If you're still the old you, you've got some self examination to do. Don't be hard on yourself. Just look for progress. Ask yourself if you can tell the difference between your old life and your new.

 

[slave]

Why do we place such emphasis on "what we do." God looks at our heart, motive first and foremost.

As for rewards, well I'm sure I won't have any but I'm not going to worry about it because all I want is to spend eternity with our sovereign Creator, God Almighty, maker of Heaven and Earth.

And as for "what we do" are we to go around trying to prove our salvation to others? Not me. It is God I am concerned with and that He knows my heart/soul and that He has done all the work for my salvation and sealed it with the seal of the Holy Spirit.

I am not saved by believing; I realise I am saved by believing. It is not repentance that saves me; repentance is the sign that I realise what God has done in Christ Jesus. The danger is to put the emphasis on the effect instead of on the cause — “It is my obedience that puts me right with God, my consecration.” Never! I am put right with God because prior to all, Christ died. When I turn to God and by belief accept what God reveals I can accept, instantly the stupendous Atonement of Jesus Christ rushes me into a right relationship with God, and by the supernatural miracle of God’s grace I stand justified, not because I am sorry for my sin, not because I have repented, but because of what Jesus has done. The spirit of God brings it with a breaking, all-over light, and I know, though I do not know how, that I am saved.

The salvation of God does not stand on human logic, it stands on the sacrificial Death of Jesus. We can be born again because of the Atonement of Our Lord. Sinful men and women can be changed into new creatures, not by their repentance or their belief, but by the marvellous work of God in Christ Jesus which is prior to all experience.

The impregnable safety of justification and sanctification is God Himself. We have not to work out these things ourselves; they have been worked out by the Atonement: The supernatural becomes natural by the miracle of God; there is the realization of what Jesus Christ has already done - “It is finished." It is in the middle that human choices are made; the beginning and the end remain with God. The decrees of God are birth and death, and in between those limits man makes his own distress or joy.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Why do we place such emphasis on "what we do." God looks at our heart, motive first and foremost.


As for rewards, well I'm sure I won't have any but I'm not going to worry about it because all I want is to spend eternity with our sovereign Creator, God Almighty, maker of Heaven and Earth.


And as for "what we do" are we to go around trying to prove our salvation to others? Not me. It is God I am concerned with and that He knows my heart/soul and that He has done all the work for my salvation and sealed it with the seal of the Holy Spirit.

You are right, "what we do" is just who we are, not much then.
Nothing we do comes from anything but that which is in our hearts.

It is like saying warmth of a heating system exists but what is important
is the flames that make the heat. Well we have the flames to create the
warmth, you cannot have one without the other.

If one claimed one had the flames but there was no heat, it is obvious this
is not true. So when a heating system which should be working is cold, you
know the flames have gone out.

Now unfortunately we are not God, we cannot see peoples hearts but we can
see what they do. So if people are being treated well, blessed, uplifted and
encouraged in good things and praising the Lord, it is reasonable to assume
the heart is good.

This is so simple Jesus said this

No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.
Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers.
The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.
Luke 6:43-45

By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
Matthew 7:16-17

The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matthew 3:10

Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matthew 7:17-19

Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit.
Matthew 12:33

 

[star]

Producing fruit (good works) certainly is important and those who love God and wish to serve Him seek to do good works.

However, that does not prove our salvation. There are unbelievers who do good works. Good works is not exclusive to Christians.

Salvation is assured by accepting Jesus Christ and His free gift. We don't have to "prove" anything to anyone. God knows whether or not we have salvation.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Producing fruit (good works) certainly is important and those who love God and wish to serve Him seek to do good works.

However, that does not prove our salvation. There are unbelievers who do good works. Good works is not exclusive to Christians.

Salvation is assured by accepting Jesus Christ and His free gift. We don't have to "prove" anything to anyone. God knows whether or not we have salvation.

Fruit is also our words, our attitudes, our giving and receiving.
From these, confessions of faith, of truth, of good things you know what their heart
is full of.

The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him.
Matthew 12:35

 

[Locutus]

Unfortunately turning across the path of another vehical is the fault of the
turning vehical, because there is no proof the other party was going too fast.

Finding a worthy vehical or means has been my goal.

Your spelling Peter is a vehicle of your exposure..

 

[VCO]

What does the once saved always saved argument mean if you're not even born again to begin with as evidenced by your unchanged life? It doesn't, of course. It's a distraction that soothes the minds of people who are not born again. It's the great deception of the end times.


(you=anybody)

You will find, that your definition of Once Saved Always Saved, only applies to a very small minority of Churches. We ourselves do NOT consider them to be False Gospel Churches, therefore their members the MANY are pretend Christians, HE warned us about in Matthew 7, and of course, Baby-Christians, who do not know better yet, but they will learn. The VAST majority of true Born Again Believers, believe that "Once Saved Always Saved" applies to FAR FEWER that have Genuinely entered the NARROW GATE. You see, we do not count those of the pretend Christians, as actually belong to to the CHURCH. However, WE are content to have them in our midst, BECAUSE "Faith comes by HEARING". We are committed not to put those people into to TEACHING ROLES, and unless they insist on teaching their FALSE TEACHINGS, we do not ask them to leave.

So you have a VERY twisted Concept of what Mainline Christianity has Meant by ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED. We Believe, that those who do leave, have verified that they were NEVER OF US. I suspect that you Paint those so-called Christians with a BROAD BRUSH, where Only a very narrow Brush can fit in the NARROW GATE. You see, what you have been taught about ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, was only an ASSUMPTION from someone who does not know what they are talking about. When in reality, we mean by ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, are those of US, who believe, GOD'S LOVE that the Holy Spirit put in us, will produce a harvest of LOVE, that is a CHANGED LIVES, guaranteed BY HIM.

1 John 2:19-20 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.

Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

John 10:26-30 (HCSB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But you don’t believe because you are not My sheep.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] The Father and I are one.”

 

[John146]

No amount of good works prove one's salvation. Why can't people get that?

 

[UnderGrace]

No amount of good works prove one's salvation. Why can't people get that?

I absolutely get it!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Justification is granted solely on the basis of faith in God's forgiveness. No work necessary to receive that.

We know who has that free gift of justification by how they behave. The children of God and the children of the devil are OBVIOUS this way, John said.

The present onslaught of the forbidden doctrine is bringing hoards of unconverted people into the church and deceiving them into thinking they are born again despite the fact they have unchanged lives and continue in their immoral, ungodly lives.

The forbidden doctrine will win the night. This is the great falling away before Christ comes back. The earthly church will not recover from this. And when the persecution starts these hoards will deny Christ and take the mark of the beast. The great shaking is coming.

You have no idea what the falling away is....maybe study the word and open your eyes to the truth.....and to be frank...your Cainology will not save you just as it failed to save Cain.....rather tragic at the end of the day......You will be one of the many that boast of your works, just as you do here.....

 

[dcontroversal]

No amount of good works prove one's salvation. Why can't people get that?

There are a few who get this....the rest believe that Cainology will earn their ticket into the kingdom.....they will be 1 work short and a micro second too late though............MANY will come before Christ pushing the same thing the working-for-ologists push on this thread....tragic that they cannot see that they PUSH the exact same dogma that leads to being cast....

a. Claim to know Christ
b. Claim their works prove it
c. Claim their works have earned the right to enter

He does not know them because of their false gospel of works blended with faith for salvation......

 

[dcontroversal]

Your spelling Peter is a vehicle of your exposure..

It is obvious that it is Peter and his very presence is breaking the rules and proves he is not all that and a bag of righteous chips......

 

[BillG]

I'll get back to you when i get an honest reply from NNM.

You got your reply yet?

 

[BillG]

Works come out of love, and I truly doubt that rewards are even in our minds.

And if works are not done out of love then they are worthless.
All one is looking for is a reward.

We need to bear in mind. We do not have to love the person we help or forgive but we do so because we love Jesus and we know he loves us.

God has blown my mind a few times when he has asked me to do something for people who I quite frankly did not like.
Then I have found that I have actually come to love them and even like them.
I wonder how many have said that about me?.


He had asked us to love each other and our enemies.

Love is not a feeling, it's an act of our will.

 

[dcontroversal]

The following is cut and pasted with permission from Budman.....obviously one of the topics of this thread is the eternal aspect of the salvation afforded men by faith and faith alone into Christ. There are those who would corrupt the word and say that salvation can be lost or forfeit...this is false and not of God.....for all reading....do not buy this lie from Satan....there is complete victory in Christ and that victory = everlasting life.

Budman's quote as follows.

One of the main things that is troublesome to my soul, are those who believe one must strive to live the "Christian life" in order to remain saved. They believe that if you sin too much after your conversion, you can lose your salvation. Or they believe you can "give" your salvation back to God and walk away. Or, they'll say, if you don't live and act in a Christian "manner" it proves you were never saved at all.

I wanted to point out, that if one can lose their salvation, based on their performance in any way, then that makes God a liar.

Jesus said that He gives us eternal life, and that we shall never perish, and that no one can snatch us out of His, or the Father's hand. (John 3:16, 10: 28-29)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will perish, and we will indeed be snatched out of the hands of Jesus and the Father.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says that we have been sealed by the Holy Spirit which is a pledge guaranteeing our inheritance. (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 5:5)

If we can lose our salvation, then there is no guarantee of our inheritance and the seal of the Holy Spirit is conditional.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says Jesus will never leave us or forsake us. (Hebrews 13:5)

If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus has left and forsaken us.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says Jesus always lives to make intercession for us. (Hebrews 7:25)

If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus will not always make intercession for us - only while we remain saved.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says we are sealed for the Day of Redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)

If we can lose our salvation, then we are not sealed until the Day of Redemption, but only up until we are lost again.

Verdict: God LIED.

Jesus said that He will lose none of us, but will raise us up on the last day. (John 6:39)

If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus will, in fact, lose some of us, and will not raise us up on the last day.

Verdict: God LIED.

Jesus said that believers will never come into judgment, and have passed from death into life. (John 5:24)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will go back under judgment, and pass from life back into death.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says our calling is irrevocable. (Roman 11:29)

If we can lose our salvation, then our calling is indeed revocable.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says salvation is a gift from God. (Ephesians 2:8)

If we can lose our salvation, then salvation is not a gift, but a wage to be earned.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says nothing in all creation (that includes us as created beings) can separate us from the love of God. (Romans 8:38-39)

If we can lose our salvation, then something can indeed separate us from the love of God.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says God will complete the good work that He began in us. (Philippians 1:6)

If we can lose our salvation, then God's good work will not be completed.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says we have been perfected for all time. (Hebrews 10:14)

If we can lose our salvation, then we certainly are not perfected for all time.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says our inheritance is imperishable, can never spoil, and is unfading, guarded by God's power. (1 Peter 1:3-5)

If we can lose our salvation, then our inheritance will perish, will spoil, and will fade.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says if we drink from the living water that is Christ, we will never be thirsty again. (John 4:14)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will indeed be thirsty again.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says God will sustain us to the end, guiltless in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 1:8)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will not be sustained until the day of the Lord.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says that our debt to God has been canceled through Christ Jesus. (Colossians 2:13-14)

If we can lose our salvation, our debt has not truly been canceled.

Verdict: God LIED.

Jesus said that those who are His will never hunger nor thirst again. (John 6:35)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will again hunger and thirst.

Verdict: God LIED.

So, what is your verdict? Did God lie to us when He made all of those promises, or is our salvation indeed eternal and irrevocable?