God LIED!

[God4me]

There's no difference between salvation and baptism of the Holy Spirit. We receive the Holy Spirit at the moment of conversion. (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:5)

Second, you always avoid 1 Corinthians 12:7-11,27-31 where Paul taught that not all believers speak in tongues.

Go ahead and refute Paul.

The Biblical sign of a believer are the fruits of the Spirit. (Galatians 5:22-23) It has absolutely nothing to do with tongues.

[1] 1 Cor 12: 13, Isn't the baptism in the Holy Ghost, It's the baptism [By the Spirit], into the body of Christ.
The Spirit baptises us into the body of Christ, [The rebirth], And Jesus baptises us in the Holy Ghost, Matt 3: 11.
Two different experiences, as the Bible proves, in Acts 8: 5--8, And v14--17. The believers were born of the Spirit, [Baptised into the body of Christ], and baptised in water, Bot they weren't baptised in the Holy Ghost until the Apostles laid hands on them, V17.

Acts 9: 6, Paul was saved, [Baptised into the body of Christ], V12 Paul had a vision, V17, Ananias called Paul, [Brother Saul]
This was three day before he was baptised in the Holy Ghost, v9.

Acts 19: 2--6, The disciples were saved for who knows how long, but they weren't baptised in the Holy Ghost, Not until Paul laid hands on them.

These scriptures prove the rebirth is a separate experience to the baptism in the Holy Ghost.

[2]When Paul said not all believers speak in tongues, He was talking about one of the gifts of the Spirit, The tongues that need an interpretation, See 1 Cor 12: 10, & v30, and please note, Tongues here goes with the interpretation of tongues, and not everyone will have that gift.
But that is only one of the eight operations of tongues that are recorded in the Bible.

Please read post, #354 again.

 

[God4me]

Jesus went to Sheol/Hades to proclaim His victory to the spirits in prison there. He didn't go there to be punished/suffer for our sins in any way. The shedding of His blood took away our sins (1 John 1:7) - period.

My goodness, what kind of church do you belong to?

NO, Jesus went to "Tartarus" to proclaim His victory over the devil and hell, [Hades], the spirits in prison, are the fallen angels who are in Hell, as in Tartarus, Not Sheol/Hades.
See Jude 6. 1 Pet 3: 19. 2 Pet 2: 4, The Greek word for, "Hell", in this verse is "Tartarus", the place for the fallen angels.

1 Pet 3: 18 says Jesus was made alive in His Spirit, This was in Hell, "Hades", See Lk 16: 22--25, with Acts 2: 27, &v31.
Acts 2: 24 says God loosed Jesus from the pains of death, And we know that God didn't loose Jesus from the pain of physical death, HE DIED, But God did loose Jesus from the pains of Spiritual death and hell.

 

[Budman]

Yet again; Paul said not all believers receive the gift of tongues (1 Corinthians 12). So that shoots down the idea all believers have to have that gift or they are not saved.

And also; 1 John 1:7-9 teaches it is the shed BLOOD of Jesus that is the basis for our forgiveness - period. For without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins (Hebrews 9:22). And Jesus would have lied when He said "It is finished" when He died on the cross. If He had to go to hell and suffer after His crucifixion, our redemption certainly wouldn't have been finished yet.

 

[God4me]

Yet again; Paul said not all believers receive the gift of tongues (1 Corinthians 12). So that shoots down the idea all believers have to have that gift or they are not saved.

And also; 1 John 1:7-9 teaches it is the shed BLOOD of Jesus that is the basis for our forgiveness - period. For without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins (Hebrews 9:22). And Jesus would have lied when He said "It is finished" when He died on the cross. If He had to go to hell and suffer after His crucifixion, our redemption certainly wouldn't have been finished yet.

We have to keep the Bible in it's right context, and when Paul said "Do all speak in tongues??", He was talking about the tongues that need an interpretation, See 1 Cor 12: 10, & V30.
That operation of tongues, is just one of the eight operations of tongues that are recorded in the Bible.

How come Christians who don't believe everyone speaks in tongues, Always quote Paul in 1 Cor 12: 30.
Yet never quote Jesus in Mk 16: 17??.
They also overlook what Paul said in 1 Cor 14: 5, & 26.

 

[God4me]

Yet again; Paul said not all believers receive the gift of tongues (1 Corinthians 12). So that shoots down the idea all believers have to have that gift or they are not saved.

And also; 1 John 1:7-9 teaches it is the shed BLOOD of Jesus that is the basis for our forgiveness - period. For without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins (Hebrews 9:22). And Jesus would have lied when He said "It is finished" when He died on the cross. If He had to go to hell and suffer after His crucifixion, our redemption certainly wouldn't have been finished yet.

The blood of Jesus does cleans from all sins, [All confessed and repented sins], See 1 Jn 8--10, also 1 Jn 2: 1--2 says Jesus pleads with God for forgiveness, cleansing and reconciliation back to God, for the repented person.

 

[God4me]

Yet again; Paul said not all believers receive the gift of tongues (1 Corinthians 12). So that shoots down the idea all believers have to have that gift or they are not saved.

And also; 1 John 1:7-9 teaches it is the shed BLOOD of Jesus that is the basis for our forgiveness - period. For without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins (Hebrews 9:22). And Jesus would have lied when He said "It is finished" when He died on the cross. If He had to go to hell and suffer after His crucifixion, our redemption certainly wouldn't have been finished yet.

The work for salvation wasn't finished on the cross, Jesus still had to go to hell, Acts 2: 27, & v31, and be raised up from His deaths, 1 Cor 15: 17--20. Rom 4: 25.

 

[Zmouth]

Jesus said that He gives us eternal life, and that we shall never perish, and that no one can snatch us out of His, or the Father's hand. (John 3:16, 10: 28-29)

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39
The LORD wrote his truth on and in everything, look around. If you think difference between words like everlasting and eternal or even Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost is just semantics then you would be correct;
Semantics:the branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning. There are a number of branches and subbranches of semantics, including formal semantics, which studies the logical aspects of meaning, such as sense, reference, implication, and logical form, lexical semantics, which studies word meanings and word relations, and conceptual semantics, which studies the cognitive structure of meaning.

 

[Budman]

Wanted to bump this for the benefit of Ralph and his pals who refuse to believe in eternal security.

 

[Zmouth]

Wanted to bump this for the benefit of Ralph and his pals who refuse to believe in eternal security.

By Ralph do you mean those who believe in Jesus since they think that they are eternally saved just because they believe in Jesus and don't even know the Father.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Matt 7:21-22


And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Matt 7:23

 

[stillness]

There are better ways to get attention than your title, I could not bring myself to read what you wrote because of you title.

 

[LightLoveHope]

If we can lose our salvation, then we will again hunger and thirst.

Verdict: God LIED.

So, what is your verdict? Did God lie to us when He made all of those promises, or is our salvation indeed eternal and irrevocable?

There is an aspect that interpretation of Gods goals, affects how you interpret what He means
in His promises.

If we are fallen vessels without hope or possibility of being cleansed and pure, being made into
a Holy people, and yet the promise is if we grasp His heart, that is enough for Him to clean us
and make us whole at the resurrection, so we will be perfect then, and only then.

If we are fallen vessels with hope and a possibility of being cleansed and pure, being made into
a Holy people, and it is this cleansing and the transformed work which is the testimony of God's
Holy Spirit in the believers heart that is the Kingdom come to earth, then the promises have a
different context.

Why does a cleansed, pure, Holy people have a different context? Because they can choose to
become defiled and lost again, to walk back into the darkness, to be enveloped in the judgement
still to come.

And why does this matter? Because to those who believe in Gods cleansing and transformation a
gospel that preaches defilement is ok, is the enemy speaking.

What is clear that those who believe it is impossible to be cleansed are vehemently opposed to
any scripture that says this

"For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life."
1 Thess 4:7

Scripture cannot be ignored or dismissed, so those who dismiss this are denying the
gospel of Jesus. And that should be the end of it.

Now sadly, scripture means little to these folk, unless it confirms their preconceived ideas.
This is what defines not listening to Jesus but telling Him what He means.

 

[dcontroversal]

Wanted to bump this for the benefit of Ralph and his pals who refuse to believe in eternal security.

AMEN...May I copy and paste in the not by works thread HAHAHAHAH......the bible is replete with eternal security.....plain as day......

 

[dcontroversal]

There are better ways to get attention than your title, I could not bring myself to read what you wrote because of you title.

Booohooooo geesh.........so what.....and by not reading it you missed a plethora of excellent points on eternal security...............

 

[Budman]

By Ralph do you mean those who believe in Jesus since they think that they are eternally saved just because they believe in Jesus and don't even know the Father.

Um, if you know Jesus you know the Father as well - since both are God.

"If you had known me, you would have known my Father also; from now on, you do know Him and have seen Him" (John 14:7)

 

[Budman]

There are better ways to get attention than your title, I could not bring myself to read what you wrote because of you title.

Seriously? My goodness, you have thin skin.

 

[Budman]

Why does a cleansed, pure, Holy people have a different context? Because they can choose to become defiled and lost again, to walk back into the darkness, to be enveloped in the judgement still to come.

Hogwash. You didn't actually read the OP did you?

The Bible says no man, and in fact, nothing in all creation, can remove us from the hand of God or separate us from God's love. (Romans 8:38-39, and John 10:28-29)

Are you a created being?

Then not even you can do it. (John 10:28-29)

As long as Jesus is secure, we are secure. Salvation is based entirely on Him and what He accomplished at Calvary.

 

[Budman]

AMEN...May I copy and paste in the not by works thread..

Ab-so-lutely.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Hogwash. You didn't actually read the OP did you?

The Bible says no man, and in fact, nothing in all creation, can remove us from the hand of God or separate us from God's love. (Romans 8:38-39, and John 10:28-29)

Are you a created being?

Then not even you can do it. (John 10:28-29)

As long as Jesus is secure, we are secure. Salvation is based entirely on Him and what He accomplished at Calvary.

You could be right, but not for the reasons you see.

Can a tree, after it is fully grown deny its reality?
Can a seed before it has broken its shell know what it will become?

Jesus is declaring some basic realities. When you have love flowing
from your heart, light shinning for all to see, works and the ability to give
and receive love and intimacy, unless you become defiled and flawed, you
are not going to go back on what has happened.

So those who are truly fruitful are secure, like Paul.

The problem is with those who have just started and do not know whether
to compromise or push on to go deeper, in the word, in fellowship, in
resolving deep seated hurts and issues they have. It is these who I am
concerned for paying the price, putting dedication and effort to the cause.

It is easy to read some simple things from scripture, but to help people grow
in maturity and love, is a very different thing.

 

[Budman]

Can a tree, after it is fully grown deny its reality?
Can a seed before it has broken its shell know what it will become?

We're humans, not trees or seeds - so your analogy doesn't apply.

It is easy to read some simple things from scripture, but to help people grow
in maturity and love, is a very different thing.

"I praise you Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to little children." (Matthew 11:25)

 

[LightLoveHope]

We're humans, not trees or seeds - so your analogy doesn't apply.

No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.
Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers.
The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.
Luke 6:43-45

By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
Matthew 7:16-17

The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matthew 3:10

Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matthew 7:17-19

Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit.
Matthew 12:33

How well do you know scripture? It appears not very well.

I do not mind people pointing out a mistake, but this is simply me using
analogies Jesus used.

Maybe people who dislike what Jesus is saying avoid the message He
is giving about good fruit and bad fruit, because possibly they are scared
at the type of fruit they are producing.