GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

Shamah · Feb 3, 2018

PS said:

And this is his commandment: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus the Messiah, and to love one another as he commanded us. (1Jn 3:23 ISV)

In 1 John 3:23 we are told to keep the New Covanant commandments of Jesus.

How hard is that to understand!

1. Repent—Matthew 4:17, Luke 13:3
2. Let not your heart be troubled—John 14:27,
John 16:33, Matthew 6:25-26, Philippians 4:6-7
3. Follow me—Matthew 4:19
4. Rejoice—Matthew 5:12, (Also 2 Corinthians 6:10,
12:10, James 1:2-4)
5. Let your light shine—Matthew 5:16
6. Honor God’s law—Matthew 5:17-19
7. Be reconciled—Matthew 5:24-25
8. Do not commit adultery—Matthew 5:27-30
9. Keep your word—Matthew 5:33-37
10. Go the second mile—Matthew 5:38-42
11. Love your enemies—Matthew 5:44
12. Be perfect—Matthew 5:48
13. Practice secret disciplines (giving, praying,
fasting)—Matthew 6:1-18
14. Lay up treasures in heaven—Matthew 6:19-21
15. Seek first the kingdom of God—Matthew 6:33
16. Judge not—Matthew 7:1-2
17. Do not throw your pearls to pigs—Matthew 7:6
18. Ask, seek, and knock—Matthew 7:7-8
19. Do unto others—Matthew 7:12
20. Choose the narrow way—Matthew 7:13-14
21. Beware of false prophets—Matthew 7:15
22. Pray for those who spread the word—Matthew
9:37-38
23. Be as shrewd as serpents—Matthew 10:16.
(Also Romans 16:19)
24. Fear God. Do not fear man— Matthew 10:28
(Also Luke 12:4-5)
25. Listen to God’s voice—Matthew 11:15, 13:9,
13:43, Mark 4:23, Luke 14:35, 1 Kings 19:11-13
26.Take my yoke—Matthew 11:29
27. Honor your parents—Matthew 15:4
28. Beware of false teaching—Matthew 16:6, 11-12
29. Deny yourself—Luke 9:23 (Also Matthew 10:38
and Mark 8:34)
30. Do not despise little ones—Matthew 18:10
31. Go to Christians who offend you—Matthew
18:15 (Also Galatians 6:1)
32. Forgive offenders—Matthew 18:21-22 (Also
Proverbs 19:11)
33. Beware of covetousness—Luke 12:15
34. Honor marriage—Matthew 19:6, 19:9
35. Lead by being a servant—Matthew 20:26-28
36. Make the church a house of prayer for all
nations—Mark 11:17
37. Pray in faith—Matthew 21:21-22, John 15:7
38. Bring in the poor—Luke 14:12-14
39. Render unto Caesar—Matthew 22:19-21
40. Love the Lord—Matthew 22:37-38
41. Love your neighbor—Matthew 22:39
42. Be born again—John 3:7
43. Await my return—Matthew 24:42-44
44. Celebrate the Lord’s supper—Matthew 26:26-
45. Watch and pray—Matthew 26:41
46. Keep my commandments—John 14:15
47. Feed my sheep—John 21:15-16
48. Make and baptize disciples—Matthew 28:19
49. Teach disciples to obey—Matthew 28:20
50. Receive God’s power—Luke 24:49

50 Commands of Jesus - Practical Bible study - 15 lessons - What they mean today

What about when Yahshua/Jesus said this:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]

PS · Feb 3, 2018

Shamah said:

Revelation is a vision of a future dispensation. and Matthew 5:18 tells us the law remains until the new dispensation of Revelation.

The problem seems to be with our understanding of the law, and for that we need to turn our attention to the teaching of Jesus who:-

1. fulfilled the doctrinal teachings of the law in that He brought full revelation.

2. fulfilled the predictive prophecy of the law in that He is the Promised One, showing the reality behind the shadows.

3. fulfilled the ethical precepts of the law in that He fully obeyed them and He explained them in their truth.

So now millions of us follow the law of Jesus. HIS law is much more difficult to keep than the Old Testament law, as you can see from his commandments that encompass the Old Testament commandments as well, and as he told us HE is the LORD of the Sabbath, we keep His day Holy when from the grave he arose after conquering death, by so doing, he opened the way into the New Dispensation that is to come, for those who believe and follow Him.

lightbearer · Feb 3, 2018

PS said:

No I am a Christian saved by grace through faith.

Not that I know of.

Me too but not the people.

beta · Feb 3, 2018

gb9 said:

I am not SDA and never have been...I keep the Sabbath NOT received from them but GOD. You obviously don't hear GOD, only men...and that is your mistake...it started way back at Sinai when people REFUSED to hear God anymore...what shame for them and those rebels living today !
Yes Christ is our Savior but that also requires OBEDience to HIM Heb 5v8,9, please read it !
Do you know just HOW SHORT you fall only believing in His name ? At best this will make you a vessel of DIShonour for all eternity...should you even make it into the Kgd.
I have explained to you in detail but seemingly to no avail...your choice.

beta · Feb 3, 2018

justpassinthrough said:

I don’t need to wait for the Sabbath to love people and serve them.

Would the Lord have us wait until the Sabbath, to give a hungry person, some food, or water, or clothing to a person who is freezing cold?

Jesus desires for us to do good, and practice righteousness everyday, not just on the Sabbath.

This is the day the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad in it.

What I have asked you for is New Tmestament scripture that instructs us how to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant.

You you have not done this.

It has has become evident to all here, you really have been misled somewhere along the line into thinking the Sabbath in the New Testament is some special religion in and of itself.

Now you hope to led other’s into the same deception you yourself have fallen for.

Not not one single solitary scripture from you, where Jesus or the Apostles have instructed us to observe the Sabbath.

What the New Testament has provided for us is instructions about the Sabbath, and not to emphasize it because it is only a shadow, whereas the substance and reality is Christ.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17

Maybe your goal is to get Christians to go to a synagogue on the Sabbath? It that it?

One thing that seems to be consistent with those who emphasize the Sabbath, but have no scripture to provide as to how the born again Christian is to observe the Sabbath each week, under the New Covenant, is; they have a problem with other commandments and live in secret sin, while condemning everyone for not keeping the Sabbath, the way they do.

I have asked you repeatedly to share with us, how you observe the Sabbath, and to provide scripture from the New Testament as to where you got the instructions on how you yourself observe the Sabbath today, but as of yet, you have not.

I wonder why?

If it is so important, so as to not be allowed into God’s kingdom for breaking the Sabbath, why wouldn’t a person be willing to share the way to keep it today?

JPT

The Sabbath is part of the Commandments....the reason it's talked about so much is because that is the one people reject. ALL 10 show Love to God and love to man....
and if you have the RIGHT SPIRIT it will show you how to observe them, for it is what GOD requtres....you would not need instruction from MEN....that is the answer to your question ! (you are just fishing round for excuses)

LoveGodForever · Feb 3, 2018

gb9 said:

Nope that is an out of CONTEXT answer that the posts and scriptures in them show that you have chosen to ignore...

Please see the linked posts that discuss 1 John 3:23 in detail......

POST # 4133; POST # 4137; POST # 4138; POST # 4266 and POST # 4254 (All linked)

Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW him who calls us in LOVE to LOVE.

.............

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

lightbearer · Feb 3, 2018

posthuman said:

Sabbaths which is plural is in reference to the Sabbaths contained in the Book of the Law. These are they which were handwritten.

Blotting out the handwriting to the ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The text reads the handwriting to the ordinances that were against us; not the handwriting of ordinances. The Decalogue is of the Ordinances, not the handwriting to the ordinances. The Ordinances are the Decalogue and the Commandments and Statutes contained in the Book of the Law that pertained to righteousness. These are they which let us know what sin is. These Were not against us. The Judgements and Statutes that related to when we sin were.

And having spoiled (stripping off) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Through Christ there is no need for the principalities and powers; the handwriting to the ordinances contained in the Book of the Law that were mandated due to our sinning because through Jesus we do not need them. They condemned due to our sinning. We now have victory over sin through Christ. And if we do sin we have an Advocate (Helper) toward the Father; Jesus Christ!

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
(Eph 2:2 KJV)

To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And we are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith,
(Col 2:6-13 KJV)

Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet (capable) to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
(Col 1:12-14 KJV)

In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: (the circumcision made without hands; the circumsion of Christ in the putting of the body of sin)
(Col 3:9-10 KJV)

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(Col 2:14-17)

The word therefore draws verse 16 and 17 into the context of what was previously stated.

This is a future prophecy that relates to us in Heaven worshipping GOD. It shows that the Sabbath is still recognized in the future when we are in Heaven as is the cycles of the moon.
The word for new moon here is most often translated month throughout the Holy Writ. Weather it relates to the festivals or not is speculative outside of The fact that the Levitical priesthood and the Temple services which received the meat and drink offerings and morning and evening sacrifices on the new moon festivals and sabbaths contained in the handwriting to the ordinances (the Book of the Law) were down away with in Christ.

There remaineth therefore a Sabbath keeping to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

As GOD did from HIS is a direct comparison. God ceased from work and rested on the Seventh Day which is the Sabbath so that is what we should do because it is written.

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
(Gen 2:2-3 KJV)

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest (receive the Gospel), any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the Gospel (HIS Rest) preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest (receive the Gospel), as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest (receive the Gospel): although the works (for the Gospel) were finished from the foundation of the world ( the Gospel has been available to them since the foundation of the world). For he spake in a certain place (GOD spoke on Mt Sinia in the giving of the Ten Commandments) of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again (HE speaks), If they shall enter into my rest (receive the Gospel).

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein (the Gospel), and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief (disobedience):

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest (the Gospel), lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief (disobedience).
(Heb 4:1-6, 9-11 KJV)

Studyman · Feb 3, 2018

posthuman said:

There is a reason why you don't understand the Spiritual meaning and intent of God's Word. Your mocking of God exposes the truth in your heart.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

You could always circumcise the foreskin of your heart and humble yourself unto God as Jesus instructed before He became a man.

Lev. 26:40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

The New Testament you claim to honor teaches the same thing.

1 Peter 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

How perfectly you represent the foolish narcissistic pride of natural man who automatically assumes that just because you don't understand God's Words, it must be because God is at fault.

So when the very reason they are blinded is told them, they refuse to accept it.

Matt. 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4
Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

James 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

There are some men and women who understand and believe that the God of the Bible is superior to them in every way, like a child believes about their father.

Even you must surely have considered that God might not be so willing to grant Spiritual understanding to those who Mock Him.

Studyman · Feb 3, 2018

posthuman said:

I think you should be at least honest in your question to the Great God of Abraham. After all, He already knows who you are, you can deceive yourself but not Him. Let me help with your question. It should go like this:

Will Jesus grant me the gift of immortality if I refuse to honor Him and His Father in the simple things like His 10 Commandments that even a little child can understand, and Mock Him on the things I am not Spiritually mature enough to understand?

I think you will find you already know the answer.

PS · Feb 3, 2018

posthuman said:

Sometimes, the KJV can be difficult to understand. I feel this explains Paul's teaching very well.

Don't let anyone tell you what you must eat or drink. Don't let them say that you must celebrate the New Moon festival, the Sabbath, or any other festival. These things are only a shadow of what was to come. But Christ is real! Don't be cheated by people who make a show of acting humble and who worship angels. They brag about seeing visions. But it is all nonsense, because their minds are filled with selfish desires. They are no longer part of Christ, who is the head of the whole body. Christ gives the body its strength, and he uses its joints and muscles to hold it together, as it grows by the power of God. You died with Christ. Now the forces of the universe don't have any power over you. Why do you live as if you had to obey such rules as, "Don't handle this. Don't taste that. Don't touch this."? After these things are used, they are no longer good for anything. So why be bothered with the rules that humans have made up? Obeying these rules may seem to be the smart thing to do. They appear to make you love God more and to be very humble and to have control over your body. But they don't really have any power over our desires.
(Col 2:16-23 CEV)

justpassinthrough · Feb 3, 2018

LoveGodForever said:

James 2
8, If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well:
9, But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.
12, So speak you, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

DO YOU KNOW JESUS JBL?

1 John 2
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Yes and you did not answer the scriptures and the questions I provided for you which were....

So Jesus in your view did not teach that it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath? (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)

Jesus in your view did not teach that God's Sabbath was made for man kind and not man for the Sabbath rebuking the tradtions of the Jew in regards to their interpretation around Sabbath keeping? (Mark 2:27-28; Matthew 12:8)

Jesus in your view, did not teach that he was the maker and creator of the Sabbath and the God of creation? (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)

Jesus in your view is not our example who kept the Sabbath as well as all those who followed him (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

It is hard to see when your eyes are closed.

In your view Jesus was lying when he said those that break God's Commandments and teach others to do so will not enter God's Kingdom?

In your view Jesus was lying when he said not a jot or tittle will pass from God's LAW until heaven and earth pass away? Now we havent even started on the Aposltes then again if you do not BELIEVE Jesus how will you BELIEVE his discples?

It seems you believe Jesus and the Apostles are all lying and the Bible is not true?

You teach others to brake God's Commandments this is something Jesus and the Apostles NEVER did.

Those who do such things do not enter into God's KINGDOM. This is sad for you my friend. Jesus is calling you my friend but you do not hear him

Lets agree to disagree my friend. If you cannot answer the scriptures and the questions in the posts I send you then there is no discussion with you is there? You are free to believe as you wish. You are not accountable to me but to God who's Word you do not BELIEVE.

There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day.

Well that is not true. It must be hard to see when you close your eyes.

This is what the OP is about. Did you want to adress the OP and all the scriptures that disagree with your interpretation of these scriptures? So far you have ignored the OP and just stated the scritpures that the OP is discussing without adrerssing any of the scriptures that disagree with your interpretation of them.

..................

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

Yet another post from you with not one single scripture from the New Testament that instructs us how to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant.

Not one.

It seems your your whole theology is built on the shifting sands of mans doctrine.

You won’t even offer an suggestions to us from how you yourself observe .the Sabbath under the New Covenant.

If you don’t have any scripture to support your observance of the Sabbath under the New Covenant, then it is only idle talk.

Paul warned us about people like you.

5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm. 1 Timothy 1:5-7

desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.

JLB

beta · Feb 3, 2018

justpassinthrough said:

Yet another post from you with not one single scripture from the New Testament that instructs us how to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant.

Not one.

It seems your your whole theology is built on the shifting sands of mans doctrine.

You won’t even offer an suggestions to us from how you yourself observe .the Sabbath under the New Covenant.

If you don’t have any scripture to support your observance of the Sabbath under the New Covenant, then it is only idle talk.

Paul warned us about people like you.

5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm. 1 Timothy 1:5-7

desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.

JLB

If you walk with Jesus you will know how to observe it...HE is our Teacher....NOT men teaching each other ! why do you blame others for your own lack of understanding ? STUDY to show yourself approved !

MarcR · Feb 3, 2018

Shamah said:

Nothing has passed from the Law! The Law is still in full force and effect! The end (purpose) of the Law is still to persuade people that they can't please God by their own efforts; and to demonstrate their need for a Savior and point them to Jesus.

God never expected people to be able to obey the Law to His standards. Abraham, Job and all the other OT saints were saved by the same faith in Jesus that we are.

Shamah · Feb 3, 2018

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it." [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mark 3:4, “And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do right on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isayah 58:11-14, "YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]speak, saying, ‘[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], to serve Him, and to love the Name of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:20, “But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, nor on the Sabbath Day.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Proof this is an end time prophecy is found here, for the Messiah has not yet returned;[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 21:30-33, “As soon as they produce leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is already near. In the same way, when you see these things taking place, you will know that the kingdom of God is near. I tell all of you with certainty, this generation will not disappear until all these things take place. Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:32-36, “Now learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branches become tender and it produces leaves, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see all these things, you will know that the Son of Man is near, right at the door. I tell all of you with certainty, this generation will not disappear until these things happen. Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear. No one knows when that day or hour will come—not the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."[/FONT]

posthuman · Feb 3, 2018

Studyman said:

i don't think you comprehend what i'm asking, because you didn't even attempt to answer it.

ask yourself, what is the new house that God builds, and what is a parapet in this house?

all scripture testifies of Christ. the Law is the nanny that is to bring us to Him -- so where is Christ in this commandment?
i'm not asking because i don't know; i'm asking because i hope you will think for yourself through what the implication of this is, finding Christ revealed in it -- because if you do, it comments profoundly on many of the topics in this thread you consider to be 'larger' but which are actually much smaller.

people, especially proud people, internalize a lesson better when they think they've arrived at it themselves, rather than having memorized a lecture. when they have thought it in their own mind, rather than having been told what to think. that is why i posted this commandment, and asked about it, rather than explained it.
not because i couldn't write 6,000 words expositing it myself.
because i know you'd reject those immediately, but you'd accept whatever you told yourself - and if your mind was on Him, you would see Him in it, and the transmission of the ideas i mean to convey would be accomplished without my having to state them.

valiant · Feb 3, 2018

beta said:

as a special sign for ISRAEL at sinai.
i

I hear GOD not you. God did not think it important enough to mention it to the rich young ruler.

Sinai was a covenant with ISRAEL not the church

No it RESULTS in obedience to Him

HE said it was everything

eg John 3.16

LOL you got there first as such a vessel.

you haven't provided ONE piece of NT evidence. I'll watch you struggle

Shamah · Feb 3, 2018

MarcR said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it." [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”

1 Timothy 1:5-8, " But the goal* of the commandment is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions. And we know that the Law is good if one uses it legitimately.”

(goal)is word #G5056 –télos; Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

1 John 4:20, “"If someone says, "I love Yah," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love Yah whom he has not seen."

1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."[/FONT]

MarcR said:

We are saved by YHWH, He says to do His will.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 25:31-46, “And when the Son of Aḏam comes in His esteem, and all the set-apart messengers with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His esteem. And all the nations shall be gathered before Him, and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the Sovereign shall say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the reign prepared for you from the foundation of the world for I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry and we fed You, or thirsty and gave You to drink? And when did we see You a stranger and took You in, or naked and clothed You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and we came to You? And the Sovereign shall answer and say to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me. He shall then also say to those on the left hand, ‘Go away from Me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his messengers for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, was naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me. Then they also shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not serve You? Then He shall answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Malachi 3:14-18, “You have said, ‘It is worthless to serve Yah. And what did we gain when we guarded His Charge, and when we walked as mourners before [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of hosts? And now we are calling the proud blessed – not only are the doers of wrongness built up, but they also try Yah and escape. Then shall those who fear [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]speak to one another, and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]listens and hears, and a book of remembrance be written before Him, of those who fear [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and those who think upon His Name. And they shall be Mine,” said [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of hosts, “on the day that I prepare a treasured possession. And I shall spare them as a man spares his own son who serves him. Then you shall again see the difference between the righteous and the wrong, between one who serves Yah and one who does not serve Him."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."[/FONT]

posthuman · Feb 3, 2018

Studyman said:

this is totally not an answer to why or why not a believer is condemned to hell for wearing blended fabric.

Leviticus 19:19 is not difficult to understand; it is a very clear statement.

it is Law.

LGF says the Christian will go to hell if he breaks commandments.

Studyman says when the NT talks about not being under Law, it means not under totally imaginary law the Pharisees made up in their minds - Studyman says it is never referring to not being under God's Law given at Sinai and through Moses.

if i put these two together, simple faith in the atonement that Jesus Christ worked is meaningless -- i must obey commandments or else i go to hell.

so here is a very clear commandment spoken by the LORD God, which is nowhere in the NT specifically repealed.

must i obey it ((or else!!)) or no?
why, why not?

it is a very practical matter -- do i need to burn most of the clothing in my house, and go replace it all with 100% cotton fabric only, or am i "safe" and do not need to do this?

Shamah · Feb 3, 2018

valiant said:

If you teach it ONLY for blood Israyl then your statement goes directly against the words of YHWH:

Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said יהוה, “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said יהוה, “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Yisra’yl who belongs to Yisra’yl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Psalms 105:6-10, “O seed of Aḇraham His servant, Children of Ya‛aqoḇ, His chosen ones! He is יהוה our Strength; His right-rulings are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, The Word He commanded, for a thousand generations, The covenant He made with Aḇraham, And His oath to Yitsḥaq, And established it to Ya‛aqoḇ for a law, To Yisra’yl – an everlasting covenant.”

Galatians 3:27-29, “For as many of you as were immersed into Messiah have put on Messiah. There is not Yehuḏi nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah יהושע. And if you are of Messiah, then you are seed of Aḇraham, and heirs according to promise.”

Psalm 89:26-37, “He will call out to Me; ‘You are My Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of My salvation!’ And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast withHim. And I will establish His Seed forever, and His throne will be as the days of heaven. Should His children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from Him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness, I cannot lie, and I say to David; His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky.”

valiant said:

The Messiah says nothing is done away, yet many claim against His words.

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

Hebrews 4:1-11, "Therefore, since a promise of entering His rest remains, let us fear so that none of you should come short of it. For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed-- However, we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: So I vowed in My wrath, They will not enter into My rest, although the works were finished from the foundation of the world, For He spoke in a certain place of the Seventh Day, in this way: And YHWH rested the Seventh Day from all His works. And in this place again: If they will enter into My rest. Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Again, He designates a certain day, saying in David: ''Today,'' after so long a time, as it has been said: Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts. If Yahshua (ben Nun) had given them rest he would not have spoken afterward of another day. Therefore, there remains the keeping of the Sabbath (word G#4520) to the people of YHWH, For he who has entered into His rest (word G#2663) has also ceased from his own works, as YHWH did from His. Therefore, let us be zealous to enter into that rest (word G#2663), so that no one may fall after the same example of unbelief."

#G4520 – sabbatismos, sabbatismos: a sabbath rest, Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ, Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine, Transliteration: sabbatismos, Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos'), Short Definition: a Sabbath rest, Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest., Word Origin - from a derivation of sabbaton, Definition - a sabbath rest

#G2663 – katapausis, katapausis: rest, Original Word: κατάπαυσις, εως, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: katapausis, Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ap'-ow-sis), Short Definition: resting, rest, Definition: (in the Old Testament of the rest attained by the settlement in Canaan), resting, rest, dwelling, habitation., Word Origin - from katapauó, Definition - rest

Contrast words 4520 from Hebrews 4:9 to all the other "NT" mentions of Sabbath:

Hebrews 4:9, "Therefore, there remains the keeping of the Sabbath (word G#4520)to the people of YHWH."

#G4521 – sabbaton, sabbaton: the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week), Original Word: σάββατον, ου, τό, Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter, Transliteration: sabbaton, Phonetic Spelling: (sab'-bat-on), Short Definition: the Sabbath, a week, Definition: the Sabbath, a week., Word Origin - of Hebrew origin shabbath, Definition - the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week), 68 Occurrences

“keeping of the Sabbath” is word #4520 - sabbatismos: a sabbath rest, Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ, Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine, Transliteration: sabbatismos, Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos'), Short Definition: a Sabbath rest, Definition: akeeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

Yet many understand Hebrews 4 to be bearing witness against the Sabbath as being the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day, and that the true rest is in Yahshua/Jesus. It is true that the true rest is in Yahshua/Jesus, however, none have yet entered this rest:

Matt 11:27-30, "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father. And no one fully knows the Son except the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father, except the Son and those whom YHWH wills the Son to reveal. Come to Me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light"

“you who are afflictedrest with us when the Master יהושע is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers”

This is till future; 2 Thessalonians 1:5-10, “Clear evidence of the righteous judgment of יהוה, in order for you to be counted worthy of the reign of יהוה, for which you also suffer, since יהוה shall rightly repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give you who are afflictedrest with us when the Master יהושע is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know יהוה, and on those who do not obey the Good News of our Master יהושע Messiah, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Master and from the esteem of His strength, when He comes to be esteemed in His set-apart ones and to be admired among all those who believe in that Day, because our witness to you was believed.”

2 Peter 3:8, “But, beloved ones, let not this one matter be hidden from you: that with יהוה one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”

Hosheyah 6:1-3, “Come, and let us turn back to יהוה. For He has torn but He does heal us, He has stricken but He binds us up. After two days He shall revive us, on the third day He shall raise us up, so that we live before Him. So let us know, let us pursue to know יהוה. His going forth is as certain as the morning. And He comes to us like the rain, like the latter rain watering the earth.”

Rev 20:4-6, "And I saw thrones – and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them – and the lives of those who had been beheaded because of the witness they bore to יהושע and because of the Word of Ylohim, and who did not worship the beast, nor his image, and did not receive his mark upon their foreheads or upon their hands. And they lived and reigned with Messiah for a thousand years and the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended) – this is the first resurrection. Blessed and set-apart is the one having part in the first resurrection. The second death possesses no authority over these, but they shall be priests of YHWH and of Messiah, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."

For Messiah said: Matt 11:27-30, "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father. And no one fully knows the Son except the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father, except the Son and those whom YHWH wills the Son to reveal. Come to Me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light"

Hebrews 4:10, “For he who has entered into His rest has also ceased from his own works*, as YHWH did from His*.”

Isaiah 58:11-14, "YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: *from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it."

Genesis 2:1-3, “Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array. And in the seventh day the Mighty One completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And the Mighty One blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because *on it He rested from all His work which the Mighty One in creating had made.”

The real rest, that the Sabbath looks forward to, that none have yet entered into is this:

Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"

posthuman · Feb 3, 2018

PS said:

Yes

thank you

perhaps you are not aware that Studyman's position is that Colossians 2 says exactly the opposite of what it really says?
Studyman says here Paul is telling us that we are commanded to keep and in fact to judge one another over observing feast days, sabbath days and new moon festival.

he focuses only on sabbath however, and though i've been asking plainly and pointedly for several moons now, he won't tell me how i'm supposed to observe new moon festivals.

the others here, they point at Isaiah 66:23 and say "see? sabbath is mentioned, so you must keep sabbath ((or else!!))" -- but this same verse says new moon festival too, and they are silent on that issue.

if these things argue that sabbath is commanded and we - faith in Christ not being sufficient - will go to hell if we don't ritually, physically observe it, then the exact same arguments also say we must keep new moon festivals or meet the same fate, again, the atonement of Christ's shed blood not making any difference. ((according to their 'gospel'))

so, for what, 3 months now? more? i've been trying to get help from them on what i should do to be saved - which, in their gospel ((which is no gospel at all)), translates to how do i observe new moon festival? and others have been asking them, how do i observe sabbath?

they don't answer; they don't lift a finger to help with the burden they place on my back by their 'knowledge'
-- but you have answered me with comfort and truth. thank you

GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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