Not By Works

[Studyman]

I hear ya...the law was given to INCREASE SIN and CONDEMN all as guilty......how can anyone possibly think that attempting to adhere to that which proves your guilt and condemns you is the way to go to be made righteous in God's eyes....it is like a convicted murderer using a live electric chair instead of lawyers and court appearances to prove his innocence........Serious.......

So you preach that Jesus, before becoming a man, created "Thou shall not kill" so you would kill somebody and prove to yourself that it is impossible for a human to live without killing people. I don't think the Bible supports this preaching. And as far as leading us to Christ. What does Jesus do for you? For me He forgives my past sins and writes His Fathers Laws (Spirit of Truth) on my heart.

He doesn't carry my cross or follow Himself for me.

You have to wonder what it will take for them to see, the law was not given to show us HOW to live, but to show us HOW we failed.

God's Instructions are not to show men "how to live"? I mean really EG, this is way out there even for you.

1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

Eph. 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Disobedience to what EG? Is this not referring to God's Instructions? And if I am no longer in control of my actions after Jesus forgives me, why all the talk about "Taking Heed" and "Girding up the loins of my mind", and "bringing every thought into the obedience of Christ". How can I even do any of these things according to your religion, and if your preaching is true, why would I need to even bother with all that talk given Jesus does everything for me.


2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Why do I need instruction in Righteousness if Jesus does everything for me? How can you preach God's Word is not to show us how to live when the Bible says exactly the opposite?
I must admit, I can't see how the Bible supports your preaching.

So the Word(Instructions, Laws) of God isn't written to show us how to live.
1 Cor. 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

Why should I worry about lusting for things they lusted for? According to your preaching I'm free from the instructions they rejected.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Examples of what EG? Isn't God's Word showing us examples of how to live and how not to live?

I truly can't see how the Bible supports much of your preaching EG. I think you mean well, and certainly believe what you preach. But my goodness, there is so much of the Bible that contradict your doctrines.

"God's Laws are not for the Christian"

"the Pharisees (Children of satan) were trying to earn Salvation by following the letter of God's Laws"

"Jesus battled God on the cross and made a show of God openly triumphing over God on the cross"

"God's Instruction are not to show us how to live, but how we failed."

Honestly EG and Decon, these doctrines are hard to swallow for a person who trusts God/Jesus and their sayings, "Which are one". I know we go at it pretty hard sometimes, but my goodness, if the Word of God/Jesus "Sayings" isn't instructions on how to live, then why did Jesus tell us to follow it?

 

[UnderGrace]

The correct understanding of James would eliminate your inconsistent, illogical beliefs Ralphie, it is not right to misuse scripture.

James is not evangelizing his readers, they are believers.

Dead means unprofitable, unproductive, useless, it does not mean non-existent

What does it profit?

Twice James indicates he is talking about profit and loss, not heaven and hell.

James uses the word save (sōzō) five times.

All five refer to deliverance of believers from difficulties, judgment, and death in this life NOT loss of salvation.

It's not that. Everybody knows works do not purchase salvation.

What's going on is some of us agree with James that a dead faith (faith that doesn't have works) can not save.

"What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?"-James 2:14

The faith that has no works did not save you and it will not save you when Jesus comes back. Countless Christians look right past this verse and aren't able to see it because they insist you can not lose your salvation so it doesn't matter if you have works or not and that you will still be saved when Jesus comes back no matter what. James is clearly not teaching a 'no matter what' doctrine here. It does matter. The person who has 'faith' but has no change of life is not saved. End of story.


Works DO matter. Just not in the one way that the church has been trained to think works matter (in a works gospel).
Works show if you are really born again or not.

 

[Chester]

Originally Posted by NoNameMcgee

the thread is fine....

its just some of the occupants that for some reason think it is indeed "by works" (their works more specifically) that they are saved​

Just wondering: Who out there believes that "it is indeed 'by works' (their works more specifically) that they are saved"?

Asking a second time:

Just wondering: Who out there believes that "it is indeed 'by works' (their works more specifically) that they are saved"?

Or, can someone document where someone has clearly said that they believe this?
​

 

[mj007]

So if when saved you are saved no matter what, does that mean if Hitler came to Christ before he died but after all the atrocities he would be saved and go to heaven? I just want to understand more. I don't really spend my time thinking about whether I'm saved or not, and those who claim to be saved and tell everyone else they are not, I regard with caution. I spend my time following Christ in his way and his life and his truth. Whether I am saved or not, am I not doing God's will? Doing God's will is what is important to me. Is it not important to those who claim to be saved? Are they saved so like, whatever? No need to do God's will because they are saved? I just want to understand more. Different minds, understanding required. But also reciprocated in kindness.

 

[dcontroversal]

It never ceases to amaze me how people like you will agree that salvation is a gift that we can't earn by works in any way, and then turn around and claim that if we don't keep up our end after salvation via good works, either we never really had it, or we'll lose it.

If it were a matter of working to keep salvation, when we get to heaven we could certainly boast that we deserved to be there based on our performance.

The Bible says; "By one offering He has made perfect forever them that are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14)

Not "will" be made perfect, we have already been made perfect - forever.

No....strings....attached.

We are, and will always remain who we are, by birth - not by behavior.

Ralph, how can a Christian lose their salvation due to sin, when we have NO sins attributed to us?

Amen...more strings and wires attached than a baby grad piano and a 12 stringed guitar....he will say that and then turn around and say that your not saved until JESUS sees your works at the end on the day of judgment...or works are necessary for salvation.......very sly....and wrong....

 

[dcontroversal]

So you preach that Jesus, before becoming a man, created "Thou shall not kill" so you would kill somebody and prove to yourself that it is impossible for a human to live without killing people. I don't think the Bible supports this preaching. And as far as leading us to Christ. What does Jesus do for you? For me He forgives my past sins and writes His Fathers Laws (Spirit of Truth) on my heart.

He doesn't carry my cross or follow Himself for me.



God's Instructions are not to show men "how to live"? I mean really EG, this is way out there even for you.

1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

Eph. 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Disobedience to what EG? Is this not referring to God's Instructions? And if I am no longer in control of my actions after Jesus forgives me, why all the talk about "Taking Heed" and "Girding up the loins of my mind", and "bringing every thought into the obedience of Christ". How can I even do any of these things according to your religion, and if your preaching is true, why would I need to even bother with all that talk given Jesus does everything for me.


2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Why do I need instruction in Righteousness if Jesus does everything for me? How can you preach God's Word is not to show us how to live when the Bible says exactly the opposite?
I must admit, I can't see how the Bible supports your preaching.

So the Word(Instructions, Laws) of God isn't written to show us how to live.
1 Cor. 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

Why should I worry about lusting for things they lusted for? According to your preaching I'm free from the instructions they rejected.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Examples of what EG? Isn't God's Word showing us examples of how to live and how not to live?

I truly can't see how the Bible supports much of your preaching EG. I think you mean well, and certainly believe what you preach. But my goodness, there is so much of the Bible that contradict your doctrines.

"God's Laws are not for the Christian"

"the Pharisees (Children of satan) were trying to earn Salvation by following the letter of God's Laws"

"Jesus battled God on the cross and made a show of God openly triumphing over God on the cross"

"God's Instruction are not to show us how to live, but how we failed."

Honestly EG and Decon, these doctrines are hard to swallow for a person who trusts God/Jesus and their sayings, "Which are one". I know we go at it pretty hard sometimes, but my goodness, if the Word of God/Jesus "Sayings" isn't instructions on how to live, then why did Jesus tell us to follow it?

UMMM....seriously.....lay off the juice....what you said above about what I "preach" does not even come close to the pint I was making.....wow....!

 

[Budman]

So if when saved you are saved no matter what, does that mean if Hitler came to Christ before he died but after all the atrocities he would be saved and go to heaven?

Yes. To the glory of God.

Whether I am saved or not, am I not doing God's will?

No. God's will is for you to be saved. If you are unsaved, whatever you think you're doing for Him, He considers it "filthy rags."

You would be attempting to "bribe the judge" - whether you realized it or not.

No need to do God's will because they are saved?

Salvation is a gift. Grace is unmerited. Good works are fine and good, but if you are doing them to earn salvation, or remain saved, you turn that gift into a wage, and grace would no longer be grace.

 

[BillG]

So if when saved you are saved no matter what, does that mean if Hitler came to Christ before he died but after all the atrocities he would be saved and go to heaven? I just want to understand more. I don't really spend my time thinking about whether I'm saved or not, and those who claim to be saved and tell everyone else they are not, I regard with caution. I spend my time following Christ in his way and his life and his truth. Whether I am saved or not, am I not doing God's will? Doing God's will is what is important to me. Is it not important to those who claim to be saved? Are they saved so like, whatever? No need to do God's will because they are saved? I just want to understand more. Different minds, understanding required. But also reciprocated in kindness.

Would Hitler be saved if he came to Jesus is genuine faith?

Yes I say he would.

Just like those who crucified Jesus.

Corrie ten Boom suffered under the atrocities of Hitlers regime.

Years after the war she came face to face with a prison guard at a meeting she held.

Here is how it goes.


[FONT=&quot]When we confess our sins,’ I said, ‘God casts them into the deepest ocean, gone forever. And even though I cannot find a Scripture for it, I believe God then places a sign out there that says, ’NO FISHING ALLOWED.’[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The solemn faces (prison guard) stared back at me, not quite daring to believe. And that’s when I saw him, working his way forward against the others. One moment I saw the overcoat and the brown hat; the next, a blue uniform and a cap with skull and crossbones. It came back with a rush—the huge room with its harsh overhead lights, the pathetic pile of dresses and shoes in the center of the floor, the shame of walking naked past this man. I could see my sister’s frail form ahead of me, ribs sharp beneath the parchment skin. Betsie, (her sister) how thin you were! That place was Ravensbruck, and the man who was making his way forward had been a guard—one of the most cruel guards.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Now he was in front of me, hand thrust out: "A fine message, Fraulein! How good it is to know that, as you say, all our sins are at the bottom of the sea!" And I, who had spoken so glibly of forgiveness, fumbled in my pocketbook rather than take that hand. He would not remember me, of course—how could he remember one prisoner among those thousands of women? But I remembered him. I was face-to-face with one of my captors and my blood seemed to freeze.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"You mentioned Ravensbruck in your talk," he was saying. "I was a guard there." No, he did not remember me. "But since that time," he went on, "I have become a Christian. I know that God has forgiven me for the cruel things I did there, but I would like to hear it from your lips as well. Fraulein,"—again the hand came out—"will you forgive me?"[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And I stood there—I whose sins had again and again been forgiven—and could not forgive. Betsie had died in that place. Could he erase her slow terrible death simply for the asking? It could have been many seconds that he stood there—hand held out—but to me it seemed hours as I wrestled with the most difficult thing I had ever had to do.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]For I had to do it—I knew that. The message that God forgives has a prior condition: that we forgive those who have injured us. "If you do not forgive men their trespasses," Jesus says, "neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses." And still I stood there with the coldness clutching my heart. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]But forgiveness is not an emotion—I knew that too. Forgiveness is an act of the will, and the will can function regardless of the temperature of the heart. "Jesus, help me!" I prayed silently. "I can lift my hand. I can do that much. You supply the feeling." And so woodenly, mechanically, I thrust out my hand into the one stretched out to me. And as I did, an incredible thing took place. The current started in my shoulder, raced down my arm, sprang into our joined hands. And then this healing warmth seemed to flood my whole being, bringing tears to my eyes.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"I forgive you, brother!" I cried. "With all my heart!" For a long moment we grasped each other’s hands, the former guard and the former prisoner. I had never known God’s love so intensely, as I did then. But even then, I realized it was not my love. I had tried, and did not have the power. It was the power of the Holy Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][Holocaust Victim Forgives Captor, Citation: Corrie Ten Boom, Tramp for the Lord (Berkley, 1978), [/FONT]pp. 53-55[FONT=&quot]][/FONT]

Doing Gods will is important.
He did not call us to sit on our lazy backsides.
He called us for a purpose.
Firstly to place our faith in Jesus.
Then to work in us to conform us to the image of Jesus.
We have been saved by faith in order to walk in the works that God has already prepared for us.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

If someone believes that all they have to do is pray the sinners prayer and that's it.

Just carry on as normal, then they need to be corrected.
If after being corrected and they have no desire to change, then they are not saved.
The Holy Spirit is not in them, if he were they would desire change.

But let's be wary.
A believer can and does struggle with stuff in their life. sometimes for many many years, even until the day they die.
But if they earnestly seek change and hate what they are doing, then the Holy Spirit is in them.

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 10:9, “I am the gate. Whoever enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and shall go out and find pasture.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:24-27, “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does them, shall be like a wise man who built his house on the rock, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not do them, shall be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat on that house, and it fell, and great was its fall.” [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."[/FONT]

 

[Chester]

Salvation is a gift. Grace is unmerited. Good works are fine and good, but if you are doing them to earn salvation, or remain saved, you turn that gift into a wage, and grace would no longer be grace.

Good works are "fine and good"? That is all?

To me they are a blessing, a joy, a privilege: they are the passion of my life - that is - to work with all my heart and soul and strength for the kingdom of God: that his glory and honor may be spread through all the Earth: And yet I myself can do nothing - and "good work" that comes is the workmanship of Christ in me -- all to His honor and gloryl!

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John/Yahanan 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”


John/Yahanan 15:5-16, “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you.”[/FONT]

 

[Ralph-]

So if when saved you are saved no matter what, does that mean if Hitler came to Christ before he died but after all the atrocities he would be saved and go to heaven?

Yes. To the glory of God.

"no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."-1 John 3:15

His repentance would show if he 'came to Christ' or not. That's why no one starts a thread wondering if Hitler was saved or not. His life made it so we know. He left not doubt that he did not know Christ.

 

[BillG]

It's not that. Everybody knows works do not purchase salvation.

What's going on is some of us agree with James that a dead faith (faith that doesn't have works) can not save.

"What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?"-James 2:14

The faith that has no works did not save you and it will not save you when Jesus comes back. Countless Christians look right past this verse and aren't able to see it because they insist you can not lose your salvation so it doesn't matter if you have works or not and that you will still be saved when Jesus comes back no matter what. James is clearly not teaching a 'no matter what' doctrine here. It does matter. The person who has 'faith' but has no change of life is not saved. End of story.


Works DO matter. Just not in the one way that the church has been trained to think works matter (in a works gospel).
Works show if you are really born again or not.

The thing is you have a doctrinal bent. One that is that a beliver can lose their salvation.

I do not see James saying this. His issue are not about losing salvation.

His focus is, if you have faith works will follow.

A plethora of people here could quote verses that you can lose your salvation, and a plethora of people could quote verses that you cannot.

The loss of salvation is not being addressed.
The issue is whether someone had actually been saved in the first place.

With regards to your last comment

The person who has 'faith' but has no change of life is not saved. End of story

You are making a judgement call here.
The judgement call is that you come across as, There has to be a level of change in order to prove that someone is saved.

Now I think James qualified this.

James 2:14-18
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

However he does not quantify this.


This is why we need to be very very careful with what we quantify what a changed life is.

 

[BillG]

"no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."-1 John 3:15

His repentance would show if he 'came to Christ' or not. That's why no one starts a thread wondering if Hitler was saved or not. His life made it so we know. He left not doubt that he did not know Christ.

Let's assume on his deathbed or in his bunker he fell on his knees and cried out to God for forgiveness and was truly sorry for what he had done.

What would God say?

 

[mj007]

.

Yes. To the glory of God.



No. God's will is for you to be saved. If you are unsaved, whatever you think you're doing for Him, He considers it "filthy rags."
I'm confused by what you say. I do good things because its the right thing, I do it because God wants me to do good. I don't do it because I'm trying to earn something. How can you say it is not God's will, if he says go build a church, or go help the homeless? Are you saying you don't hear God, and God doesn't ask anything of you?

You would be attempting to "bribe the judge" - whether you realized it or not.
Well only if someone is doing good works to try and get into heaven.


Salvation is a gift. Grace is unmerited. Good works are fine and good, but if you are doing them to earn salvation, or remain saved, you turn that gift into a wage, and grace would no longer be grace.
Ok so lets talk about those who don't do it to earn salvation. It sounds a little like you regard anyone doing good with caution, does that mean you do nothing good? And if you do good, why is it you do good? Doesn't God instruct you of the good to do? Doesn't God give you any instructions?

 

[Ralph-]

The thing is you have a doctrinal bent. One that is that a beliver can lose their salvation.

I do not see James saying this. His issue are not about losing salvation.

I didn't say it was about that.
He said dead faith can not save.
What's that got to do with once saved always saved except that some people want to make it about that. I didn't. I'm just going by what he said. Dead faith can not save. End of story. Once saved always saved doesn't make it so that is not true.

A plethora of people here could quote verses that you can lose your salvation, and a plethora of people could quote verses that you cannot.

That's why we need to leave it out of the discussion. It does not change the fact that you have to have a living faith to be saved. Dead faith can not save you. James said it, not me. Once saved always saved, no matter what you think about it, does not change what James said-dead faith can not save.

The loss of salvation is not being addressed.
The issue is whether someone had actually been saved in the first place.

Maybe, maybe not. How do you know? It doesn't say either way.
The point is, dead faith can not save.

With regards to your last comment

The person who has 'faith' but has no change of life is not saved. End of story

You are making a judgement call here.
The judgement call is that you come across as, There has to be a level of change in order to prove that someone is saved.

Yes, there is a level of change that has to have occurred. You can not be practicing and living in sin. I didn't say it, John and Paul said it.

Now I think James qualified this.

James 2:14-18
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

However he does not quantify this.


This is why we need to be very very careful with what we quantify what a changed life is.

Every born again person should be able to tell the difference between sinning and living in his old life.

 

[BillG]

Good works are "fine and good"? That is all?

To me they are a blessing, a joy, a privilege: they are the passion of my life - that is - to work with all my heart and soul and strength for the kingdom of God: that his glory and honor may be spread through all the Earth: And yet I myself can do nothing - and "good work" that comes is the workmanship of Christ in me -- all to His honor and gloryl!

I get your point.
It is a blessing to be used by God to do his will.
Yet at times I do think to myself "Why would you use me?

 

[BillG]

I didn't say it was about that.
He said dead faith can not save.
What's that got to do with once saved always saved except that some people want to make it about that. I didn't. I'm just going by what he said. Dead faith can not save. End of story. Once saved always saved doesn't make it so that is not true.




That's why we need to leave it out of the discussion. It does not change the fact that you have to have a living faith to be saved. Dead faith can not save you. James said it, not me. Once saved always saved, no matter what you think about it, does not change what James said-dead faith can not save.




Maybe, maybe not. How do you know? It doesn't say either way.
The point is, dead faith can not save.




Yes, there is a level of change that has to have occurred. You can not be practicing and living in sin. I didn't say it, John and Paul said it.



Every born again person should be able to tell the difference between sinning and living in his old life.

Countless Christians look right past this verse and aren't able to see it because they insist you can not lose your salvation

You bought it into the discussion

 

[Ralph-]

Let's assume on his deathbed or in his bunker he fell on his knees and cried out to God for forgiveness and was truly sorry for what he had done.

What would God say?

We don't know.

We don't know if he had rejected the gospel over and over and over and over again until God gave him over to his unbelief. God does not contend with unbelievers forever. There comes a time when you reject him one time too many.

 

[VCO]

Get the gospel right and it will change your life for the good for eternity; No more sin, no more sinner's; no more tears, no more dying, only peace and joy and being in God's will for eternity. My wife just made the comment to me and said; Gee huny when we both reach heaven we can enjoy each others company and all of this and worship God -- and I said yes you are right isn't that a huge blessing from Jesus."

Get the gospel wrong and you are in for the biggest down fall of you life, or else many years of tying to fix your foolish mistakes, if you have time enough to do so. "Jesus paid it all, all to Him we owe"

24) Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.
25) For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for Me will find it.
26) What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? Mathew16:24-26

"Jesus Paid it All, All to Him I Owe"​

[video=youtube;y9DUKhFhD74]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9DUKhFhD74[/video]

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AMEN! Please post that on my music thread: http://christianchat.com/christian-...nd-christian-music-blesses-your-heart-31.html