Not By Works

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stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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There will always be those confused about grace and works, just because it's natural (the natural man) to think we must do something to be loved. Or be something.

Its unnatural, not of this world, for someone to love us just as we are. God loved us even while we were sinners. And hard to believe and accept. But, when we do? We love Him because He first loved us.

Insanity to repeat? No.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:19-20, “You believe that Yah is one. You do well. The demons also believe – and shudder! But do you wish to know, O empty man, that the belief without the works is dead?”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]believe” is word #G4100 - pisteuó: to believe, entrust, Original Word: πιστεύω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: pisteuó, Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o), Short Definition: I believe, have faith in, Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so belief without works is dead also."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:17, "So also belief, if it does not have works, is in itself dead."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone."

James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so belief without works is dead also."
[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:14, “My brothers, what use is it for anyone to say he has belief but does not have works? This belief is unable to save him.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 21:28-32, “But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go, work today in my vineyard.’ And he answering, said, ‘I do not wish to,’ but afterwards he repented and went. And having come to the second, he said similarly. And he answering, said, ‘I go, master,’ but he did not go. “Which of the two did the desire of the father?” They said to Him, “The first.” [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to them, “Truly, I say to you that tax collectors and whores are entering into the reign of YHWH before you, for Yoḥanan came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but tax collectors and whores believed him. And when you saw it, you did not repent afterwards, to believe him.”[/FONT]
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Get the gospel right and it will change your life for the good for eternity; No more sin, no more sinner's; no more tears, no more dying, only peace and joy and being in God's will for eternity. My wife just made the comment to me and said; Gee huny when we both reach heaven we can enjoy each others company and all of this and worship God -- and I said yes you are right isn't that a huge blessing from Jesus."

Get the gospel wrong and you are in for the biggest down fall of you life, or else many years of tying to fix your foolish mistakes, if you have time enough to do so. "Jesus paid it all, all to Him we owe"

24) Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.
25) For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for Me will find it.
26) What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? Mathew16:24-26

"Jesus Paid it All, All to Him I Owe"

[video=youtube;y9DUKhFhD74]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9DUKhFhD74[/video]
 
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Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 3:22-23, “For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, "יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][/FONT]
 
H

heartofdavid

Guest
He is Holy. So Holy.
It is about him. His Holiness. His Holiness.

[video=youtube;hQ5J0zppfaI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ5J0zppfaI[/video]
 
Jan 25, 2018
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Salvation - repentance, faith, works - founded on purity

Lose any part of the three and ones salvation goes.

Repentance - to abide in wilfull rebellion and sin. Heb 10:26-27
faith - to cease to trust God saves you and the cross forgives you. Hebrews 11:6
works - cease to exercise love flowing through ones life. James 2:26

Repentance
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Heb 10:26-27
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? ......you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Faith
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. Heb 11:6
We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. Heb 3:14

Works
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead James 2:26
Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. 1 Peter 3:9

Eternity is pure, without sin, holy, without blemish. What we call blemish and what God calls
blemish is different. We pick at the smallest details, the right way to be polite or show someone
we are together, or not be condemning, or not appreciating enough, or upsetting someone by
being too firm and not recognise our sinful allegiance to wealth, power, sexual desire, selfish
indulgences, holidays we just cannot go without, recognition of our achievements, what we
deserve.

We are happy to be violent within, a raging inferno, lusting after any opportunity that comes along,
wanting that bigger house, car, position, yet outside we want to be seen as being religious, following
Jesus, getting close to others and helping them, in their poor state of spiritual distress.

Little wonder purity is rejected or intimacy and closeness, it would result in a explosion with many injuries.

But this is what Jesus saw in the pharisees. He saw much that was good, but without taming the heart
and being gentle within, there is no real hope of showing true love without.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
he has not said it directly, that is why I said " if you think...", he has hinted at it, and most of these workers for salvation have the same schtick, and most of them think they do not sin. i.m basing my thought on past interactions with them
He has not responded to you either, he has not answered anyone’s questions. I pray we all let him go his merry way and stop responding to him. We had over a year of nonsense once, I pray we do not go down that path again.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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He has not responded to you either, he has not answered anyone’s questions. I pray we all let him go his merry way and stop responding to him. We had over a year of nonsense once, I pray we do not go down that path again.

Same thing with the supposed law keeping Pharisee.....I see he has chimed in again pushing his working for, law keeping drivel.....oblivious to the fact that the key to the tax collectors and whores entering in was based upon BELIEF and not their works.....and on top of that....any who think they keep the law are deceived because no man keeps the law....and no man can earn God's kingdom through works, nor do works top off salvation and finish the deal.............such foolishness.....
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Same thing with the supposed law keeping Pharisee.....I see he has chimed in again pushing his working for, law keeping drivel.....oblivious to the fact that the key to the tax collectors and whores entering in was based upon BELIEF and not their works.....and on top of that....any who think they keep the law are deceived because no man keeps the law....and no man can earn God's kingdom through works, nor do works top off salvation and finish the deal.............such foolishness.....
You have to wonder what it will take for them to see, the law was not given to show us HOW to live, but to show us HOW we failed. And this then would lead us to christ. The jews did nto see it, I guess maybe they will never also. But youhave to think there is always hope
 
Dec 12, 2013
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He has not responded to you either, he has not answered anyone’s questions. I pray we all let him go his merry way and stop responding to him. We had over a year of nonsense once, I pray we do not go down that path again.
Kind of like a double edged sword.....they post their working for sinless perfectionists garbage and on the one hand I do not want to respond because like Preacher said they will never change, but on the other hand for ALL who will skip most of the thread to come to the last few pages I feel this massive urge to combat their dogma which is obviously false.....It is not that difficult to understand that it is genuine faith that initially saves a man and that works have nothing to do with the saving or keeping saved...that is the work of Christ and is based upon his work, his faith, his blood and his imputed righteousness while being cemented with his eternal promise to never leave us or forsake us.....HE WILL finish what he started in us....end of story....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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You have to wonder what it will take for them to see, the law was not given to show us HOW to live, but to show us HOW we failed. And this then would lead us to christ. The jews did nto see it, I guess maybe they will never also. But youhave to think there is always hope
I hear ya...the law was given to INCREASE SIN and CONDEMN all as guilty......how can anyone possibly think that attempting to adhere to that which proves your guilt and condemns you is the way to go to be made righteous in God's eyes....it is like a convicted murderer using a live electric chair instead of lawyers and court appearances to prove his innocence........Serious.......
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
how can anyone possibly think that attempting to adhere to that which proves your guilt and condemns you is the way to go to be made righteous in God's eyes
Right, adhering to the law does not make you righteous. Adhering to the law shows you to have the righteousness of God. Born again people practice his commands because they are born again. Unbelievers don't practice righteousness because they are not born again.


7Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother."

1 John 3:7-8,10


John warns us to not be deceived about this truth. The person who is not changed is not born again. Examine yourself to make sure you're not one of them and so will be ready to meet Jesus when he comes back.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
the law was not given to show us HOW to live, but to show us HOW we failed.
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness"-2 Timothy 3:16

You have to know how to live in order to see how you have failed so you can repent, be born again and be ready for when Jesus returns.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
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There will always be those confused about grace and works, just because it's natural (the natural man) to think we must do something to be loved. Or be something.

Its unnatural, not of this world, for someone to love us just as we are. God loved us even while we were sinners. And hard to believe and accept. But, when we do? We love Him because He first loved us.

Insanity to repeat? No.
Actually for me it isn't like that at all. For me it's not confusing in the least. The Bible is really very clear as a whole about the choice Jesus created for us to make. And that we are all created with the ability to make this choice He created. The preaching that we have nothing to do with our choices after Jesus forgives us our sins is certainly not supported by God's Word.

The Gospel of Christ teaches about a religion that preaches "peace, peace, when there is no peace. Jesus and His Apostles speak a lot about deception, being deceived by people who claim to be Christians, and that Come in God's Name.

If I am not worried about deception, then I'm not going to "work" to understand why they spent so much time warning about it. It's a mistake not to "Take Heed" we are not deceived.

Generally speaking, most people never think they are deceived, it's always the other guy. That is the definition of deceived is it not? A person who is truly deceived, is the one most convinced he is not.

The Mainstream Religion of Christ's time actually condemned to death the most perfect human who ever lived, believing they were serving God in the process. People strap bombs on their children in some places of the world in service to their religion. This religious deception that Jesus warned about is no laughing matter and is nothing to mess around with.

Being deceived is not the real problem, it is staying in this condition that is the problem. We have all been deceived by satan at one point or another, and most people still are, the Bible says so. The narrow path has few people according to Jesus.

My Faith is in God/Jesus and the Instructions He created for me. I will "cling" to Him and His Word's as He instructed. In doing this He has promised to give me His "Spirit of Truth" that the world can not see. Why can't people of the World see? Because of their choice NOT to keep His Sayings.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

This is the only way to be safe from deception.


I also know from study that there will also be a "Serpent" who will "work" to turn me away from God/Jesus instructions and work to convince me to look at things through my eyes, my understanding. They will be "Many" and come in "sheep's clothing", disguised as an "apostle of Christ". They will "come in His Name" they will preach that He is truly the Christ, and Jesus said they will deceive many.

Now here I am witnessing a HUGE group of religious factions that teach AGAINST the instructions of God/Jesus all in His name. The greatest purveyor of disobedience to God on the planet is Mainstream Christianity. Sure, they use parts of the Word of God to justify their transgressions, just like the Serpent did to Eve. But the reality of the truth is that this great religion teaches all those who follow it to discard God's Instructions the exact same way the Serpent did to Eve.

But the Bottom line is disobedience to the Commandments of God, and adherence to ancient religious "tradition and doctrines of man". And the people who partake in these religions that make up Mainstream Christianity defend their traditions with a zeal like Paul defended the Pharisees religion.

It is truly a scary and amazing to witness. as Jeremiah prophesies.

Jer. 5:30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;

31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

Is. 40:7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.
8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Glory be to the Great God of Abraham who became a man to show us the path, and gave His life to give us another chance to walk it.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
It is not that difficult to understand that it is genuine faith that initially saves a man and that works have nothing to do with the saving or keeping saved
Works only play a role in salvation in that they SHOW you to have the justification that comes by faith apart from works. Genuine faith has works with it. Do not be deceived about this, John and Paul both said.

If you have no change of life when Jesus comes back, that shows that you are not born again and you will go to the left with the goats and into the fire. Dead faith does not save. If you have dead faith you are not prepared to meet the Master when he returns to see what each of us has done with the talent(s) of knowledge he left with us. If all you have when Jesus comes back is the knowledge of the kingdom that he gave you and you did not put it to work you will thrown "outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."-Matthew 25:29.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
its just some of the occupants that for some reason think it is indeed "by works" (their works more specifically) that they are saved
It's not that. Everybody knows works do not purchase salvation.

What's going on is some of us agree with James that a dead faith (faith that doesn't have works) can not save.

"What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?"-James 2:14

The faith that has no works did not save you and it will not save you when Jesus comes back. Countless Christians look right past this verse and aren't able to see it because they insist you can not lose your salvation so it doesn't matter if you have works or not and that you will still be saved when Jesus comes back no matter what. James is clearly not teaching a 'no matter what' doctrine here. It does matter. The person who has 'faith' but has no change of life is not saved. End of story.


Works DO matter. Just not in the one way that the church has been trained to think works matter (in a works gospel).
Works show if you are really born again or not.
 
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R

Ralph-

Guest
Agreed. I was merely pointing out to Ralph, that if one judges by the outward appearance (as he does), it is easy to be fooled.
The deceived person who is fooled is the one who thinks the one who lives an unchanged life is saved.


"Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. "-1 John 3:7-8

"Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God."-Galatians 5:9-10
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,314
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the thread is fine....

its just some of the occupants that for some reason think it is indeed "by works" (their works more specifically) that they are saved
Just wondering: Who out there believes that "it is indeed 'by works' (their works more specifically) that they are saved"?
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
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The deceived person who is fooled is the one who thinks the one who lives an unchanged life is saved.
It never ceases to amaze me how people like you will agree that salvation is a gift that we can't earn by works in any way, and then turn around and claim that if we don't keep up our end after salvation via good works, either we never really had it, or we'll lose it.

If it were a matter of working to keep salvation, when we get to heaven we could certainly boast that we deserved to be there based on our performance.

The Bible says; "By one offering He has made perfect forever them that are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14)

Not "will" be made perfect, we have already been made perfect - forever.

No....strings....attached.

We are, and will always remain who we are, by birth - not by behavior.

Ralph, how can a Christian lose their salvation due to sin, when we have NO sins attributed to us?
 

longtrekker

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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The deceived person who is fooled is the one who thinks the one who lives an unchanged life is saved.

If you're a believer and your life is 'unchanged' - well change will be forthcoming one way or the other in the nature of discipline and correction.

It may even take 10 or 20 or 30 years - but it's coming if u truly made the deal with Christ. This to me - by personal experience - is a head shaking confirmation of salvation.
 
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