Can you not see the clear contradiction here.....
And
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe!
The simplicity found in Christ is corrupted by all who blend works or law keeping for.........
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Amen.....especially when it states clearly....Not by works of righteousness which we HAVE DONE, BUT ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HAS HE SAVED US
And
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe!
The simplicity found in Christ is corrupted by all who blend works or law keeping for.........
And
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe!
The simplicity found in Christ is corrupted by all who blend works or law keeping for.........
This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God.
1 John 4:2-3
Whoever believes Jesus came in the flesh to die for our sins so we can walk righteously and
through repentance and faith, following our Lord we are redeemed has God in their hearts.
Jesus is the cornerstone of the law and the prophets, there is nothing else, unless one denies
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.
In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
Ephesians 2:19-21
The person/faith/object you follow you believe in and obey.
No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
Matthew 6:24
For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin-- because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
Romans 6:6-7
1 John 4:2-3
Whoever believes Jesus came in the flesh to die for our sins so we can walk righteously and
through repentance and faith, following our Lord we are redeemed has God in their hearts.
Jesus is the cornerstone of the law and the prophets, there is nothing else, unless one denies
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.
In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
Ephesians 2:19-21
The person/faith/object you follow you believe in and obey.
No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
Matthew 6:24
For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin-- because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
Romans 6:6-7
U
Ralphie,
This is a very telling post.
I find it interesting you keep insisting the doctrine of eternal assurance of the believer will cause people to live in sin (which is totally false).
Yet I can see, that when works are connected to one's salvation, which you have stated clearly numerous times and cannot be denied, one becomes almost anxious about making converts to one's doctrine so as to gain rewards and ensure good works for salvation.
In Jesus, the good works stem from Him and go back to Him, there is a selflessness in serving Him because it is not from self.
You see this is why works are not part of salvation.... a works based gospel becomes about I and not Him.
Why would you find that to be okay?
This is a very telling post.
I find it interesting you keep insisting the doctrine of eternal assurance of the believer will cause people to live in sin (which is totally false).
Yet I can see, that when works are connected to one's salvation, which you have stated clearly numerous times and cannot be denied, one becomes almost anxious about making converts to one's doctrine so as to gain rewards and ensure good works for salvation.
In Jesus, the good works stem from Him and go back to Him, there is a selflessness in serving Him because it is not from self.
You see this is why works are not part of salvation.... a works based gospel becomes about I and not Him.
Why would you find that to be okay?
Just so you know, I have told him that when a person is Born Again, the Holy Spirit is the ONE that pours into our hearts, GOD's LOVE, Rom. 5:5. That seed of GOD's LOVE will produce in our hearts a HARVEST of the same kind of LOVE back to GOD. We WILL want to LOVE Christ and GOD, via by Obedience. Ralph- mentions very little about loving God, and MUST KEEP the Commands to be SAVED. That is a FALSE TEACHING, our Obedience is an ACT OF LOVE FOR GOD, that comes LONG after we WERE SAVED BY GRACE, the moment we first had that Saving Faith. {John14:15, 1 John 5:3, 1 John 4:10, 1 John 4:19}
Titus 3:4-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But when the goodness of God and His love for mankind appeared,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
Titus 3:4-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But when the goodness of God and His love for mankind appeared,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 8:20, "To the Law and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and possessing the Witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and possessing the Witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah."[/FONT]
I just find your LAST SENTENCE very DECEPTIVE and HYPOCRITICAL but i’m not surprised at the way you and your group treat those who disagree with your FALSE and DESTRUCTIVE man-made doctrine.
Notice below that you said that post 1614 ( PURELY SCRIPTURES )has NO BEARING ON THIS THREAD.
No wonder how you do the same thing to Hizikyah or Shama who usually post plain scriptures.
Noone who is led by the Holy Spirit would say such thing equivalent to rejecting His Word ( john 12:47-50, romans 8:14 )even God’s laws and commands which are in fact spoken by God himself.( malachi 4:4 )
Originally Posted by Seohce
By the way the truth of everything bugging your head are all in the scriptures, just need an open mind, heart, eyes, ears & true faith to accept them. This thread is turning into a discussion for baby Christians the way it appears and a good way to promote division rather than unity.
dcon’s reply:
I hear blah, blah, blah...........and your last post 1614 HAS NO BEARING ON THIS THREAD.........BABY Christians you say......You should try the truth instead of your works.....faith in Jesus will take you a whole lot further than your works based pseudo religion.
The bible describes this kind of people;
Jude 1:16-23 These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life. Be merciful to those who doubt; snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
2 Peter 2:10-12 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
Titus 1:16 They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.
John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
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I just find your LAST SENTENCE very DECEPTIVE and HYPOCRITICAL but i’m not surprised at the way you and your group treat those who disagree with your FALSE and DESTRUCTIVE man-made doctrine.
Notice below that you said that post 1614 ( PURELY SCRIPTURES )has NO BEARING ON THIS THREAD.
No wonder how you do the same thing to Hizikyah or Shama who usually post plain scriptures.
Noone who is led by the Holy Spirit would say such thing equivalent to rejecting His Word ( john 12:47-50, romans 8:14 )even God’s laws and commands which are in fact spoken by God himself.( malachi 4:4 )
Originally Posted by Seohce
By the way the truth of everything bugging your head are all in the scriptures, just need an open mind, heart, eyes, ears & true faith to accept them. This thread is turning into a discussion for baby Christians the way it appears and a good way to promote division rather than unity.
dcon’s reply:
I hear blah, blah, blah...........and your last post 1614 HAS NO BEARING ON THIS THREAD.........BABY Christians you say......You should try the truth instead of your works.....faith in Jesus will take you a whole lot further than your works based pseudo religion.
The bible describes this kind of people;
Jude 1:16-23 These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life. Be merciful to those who doubt; snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
2 Peter 2:10-12 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
Titus 1:16 They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.
John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
You are invited to a wedding. You accept the invitation and you turn up. Halfway through the reception the best man and ushers come up to you and say that the Groom has changed his mind about your invite and you are to leave this minute because you havn't done enough to get ready. After recovering from the shock you wonder what exactly you should have done to meet the Grooms standards and why you were invited in the first place.
This appears to be how some see Gods attitude towards themselves. We can never be ready enough to meet Gods standards that why Christ met them for us. We are all invited to the wedding. All we need to prepare for is where we will be in the seating arrangements.
This appears to be how some see Gods attitude towards themselves. We can never be ready enough to meet Gods standards that why Christ met them for us. We are all invited to the wedding. All we need to prepare for is where we will be in the seating arrangements.
To God's elect.....who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
1 Peter 1-2
As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance.
But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do;
for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."
1 Peter 1:14-16
Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
1 Peter 1:22-23
the word of the Lord stands forever
1 Peter 1:25
1 Peter 1-2
As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance.
But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do;
for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."
1 Peter 1:14-16
Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
1 Peter 1:22-23
the word of the Lord stands forever
1 Peter 1:25
Marriage Supper not the wedding.
Let us rejoice and let us exult, and we will give glory to Him, because the marriage of the Lamb came, and His wife prepared herself. And it was given to her that she be clothed in fine linen, pure and bright; for the fine linen is the righteousnesses of the saints. And he says to me, Write: Blessed are the ones having been called to the supper of the marriage of the Lamb. And he says to me, These words of God are true.
(Rev 19:7-9 LITV-TSP)
The Marriage has already happened we await the Marriage Supper. It is written, "I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD".
For it is He that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Christ in us the hope of Glory.
Therefore It has been consummated. For we are the Temple of GOD; the Body of Christ. They two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery but I speak of Christ and the Church. Raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
(Jeremiah 31:32; Eph 5:31,32; 2:6 KJV)
You are probably already aware of this but just in case; here is an excerpt from the following Web site: Marriage in the Bible
ii. Once this is signed the couple is 100% married but do not have sex yet.
iii. Young children were often married, (arraigned marriage) but did not consummate until of age.
ii. The bride waits with her maidens, for the arrival of the groom and his companions.
iii. The couple enters the chuppah room and consummates the marriage while the companions of the bride and groom wait and celebrate outside or in the next room.
iv. The groom hands the bloodied "proof of virginity cloth" to the witnesses chosen by the bride's parents, who then give it to the bride for safekeeping.
ii. At the conclusion of the wedding feast, the couple has completed the ancient ritual of marriage.
Let us rejoice and let us exult, and we will give glory to Him, because the marriage of the Lamb came, and His wife prepared herself. And it was given to her that she be clothed in fine linen, pure and bright; for the fine linen is the righteousnesses of the saints. And he says to me, Write: Blessed are the ones having been called to the supper of the marriage of the Lamb. And he says to me, These words of God are true.
(Rev 19:7-9 LITV-TSP)
The Marriage has already happened we await the Marriage Supper. It is written, "I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD".
For it is He that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Christ in us the hope of Glory.
Therefore It has been consummated. For we are the Temple of GOD; the Body of Christ. They two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery but I speak of Christ and the Church. Raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
(Jeremiah 31:32; Eph 5:31,32; 2:6 KJV)
You are probably already aware of this but just in case; here is an excerpt from the following Web site: Marriage in the Bible
- There were three states of a marriage in the Bible:
- Stage 1: signing the "ketubbah" contract (Creating the marriage bond)
ii. Once this is signed the couple is 100% married but do not have sex yet.
iii. Young children were often married, (arraigned marriage) but did not consummate until of age.
- Stage 2: The "chuppah": sexual consummation.
ii. The bride waits with her maidens, for the arrival of the groom and his companions.
iii. The couple enters the chuppah room and consummates the marriage while the companions of the bride and groom wait and celebrate outside or in the next room.
iv. The groom hands the bloodied "proof of virginity cloth" to the witnesses chosen by the bride's parents, who then give it to the bride for safekeeping.
- Stage 3: The wedding feast
ii. At the conclusion of the wedding feast, the couple has completed the ancient ritual of marriage.
You are not entitled to it when I/we have clarified for you that is not what I/we believe. Since we have clarified, and you keep insisting that is exactly what we believe, you are bearing false witness - which is lying.
Ralph, anyone who even has a cursory read of this thread will see that is all you keep harping about. Works, works, works, over and over again. That is your measuring stick for anyone who claims salvation. Yet, as I, and many others have pointed out, even a charlatan can have abundant works, so they cannot be a sure sign of salvation. We need nothing to justify our salvation before God.
Exactly. You are finally catching on. We have been made holy by Jesus. We have no sins attributed to us - they are all gone. The basis for living a life pleasing to God is because it brings Him glory, justifies us before men, and secures for us treasure in heaven.
An unbeliever won't go to heaven simply because he doesn't believe - that one sin alone is enough to damn him.
And again, we inherit eternal life because of what Jesus did for us. Not from anything we do, or not do, ever. A believer may choose, based on his free will, to do little or nothing to serve the Lord. Those works are the ones that will be burned up as "hay and stubble" at the Judgment Seat, Yet, as the Bible says, he himself will remain saved.
Our works, before or after we believe, have nothing to do with our salvation. That is settled. And has been settled for over 2,000 years. It's a gift, unmerited in any way, shape, or form.
Careful of your pride, Ralph.
Ralph, anyone who even has a cursory read of this thread will see that is all you keep harping about. Works, works, works, over and over again. That is your measuring stick for anyone who claims salvation. Yet, as I, and many others have pointed out, even a charlatan can have abundant works, so they cannot be a sure sign of salvation. We need nothing to justify our salvation before God.
Exactly. You are finally catching on. We have been made holy by Jesus. We have no sins attributed to us - they are all gone. The basis for living a life pleasing to God is because it brings Him glory, justifies us before men, and secures for us treasure in heaven.
An unbeliever won't go to heaven simply because he doesn't believe - that one sin alone is enough to damn him.
And again, we inherit eternal life because of what Jesus did for us. Not from anything we do, or not do, ever. A believer may choose, based on his free will, to do little or nothing to serve the Lord. Those works are the ones that will be burned up as "hay and stubble" at the Judgment Seat, Yet, as the Bible says, he himself will remain saved.
Our works, before or after we believe, have nothing to do with our salvation. That is settled. And has been settled for over 2,000 years. It's a gift, unmerited in any way, shape, or form.
Careful of your pride, Ralph.
R
Because it's okay with Paul. That's why I find it to be okay.
"So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth. 8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor."-1 Corinthians 3:7-8
"So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth. 8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor."-1 Corinthians 3:7-8