The Rapture

[abcdef]

Hello abcdef,

You said: Jesus' resurrection is the 1st resurrection, Paul plainly says that. The resurrection of Jesus is the 1st resurrection of Rev 20, unless you want to change the meaning that Paul applied to it. Please give the scripture ref.

Hi Deade,

1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24.

Paul is specific. Jesus is the first resurrection. The next one is, those at His coming.

Then it is the end, death is destroyed, then the kingdom is delivered up to the Father for the wedding.

When the Rev is showing a resurrection (resur.), it is either the 1st, or 2nd resurrection.

Those who are seen in heaven with Jesus in 96 ad, are from the 1st resur.. with Jesus. Eph 4:8-10

Those who live and reign with Jesus are from the 1st resur., they are the OT saints.

The 2nd resur. is yet to come.

You also speak of the rapture. I take it you are pre-trib. I am post trib.

I am post trib. and I believe in a coming resurrection, one more, last resurrection.

I use the word rapture, so that people will have a concept identity with what I am saying.

There are 2 resurrections, the 2nd, will happen just before the fire from heaven.

It will happen exactly as it says at the 7th trumpet, Jerusalem will fall to the kings of the east (200 mill, 6th trump),

Then 3 1/2 days later, the resurrection when Jesus comes for the kingdom, and we are "caught up" with Him (rapture).

But then it is the end. No more resur's..

Yours,

Deade

The Rev is not one consecutive time line. It is telling the same story several times over. The story is of Israel and the Satan Roman beast, generally, from the rejection of the gospel kingdom until this planet ends.

 

[Deade]

Hi abcdef,

We are not far apart. I see in Rev. the recurring themes, but Rev. 20 is talking about another occurrence.
This is after the 1000 years, when Satan is loosed. There will be another great battle with Satan finally being destroyed. I suggest you study the White Throne Judgement more closely. I do not believe anyone gets a second chance. Our argument consists of when they get the first one.

Yours,

Deade

 

[Locutus]

Let's not lose track of which realm (physical or spiritual) that these things are taking place. There is nothing in Rev 20:4-6 taking place in the physical (visible) realm. The beheaded saints are in the spiritual realm reigning with Christ. The "dead" are in the spiritual realm separated from God. There is no time in heaven, as I pointed out and Peter affirms. Since there is no sun in heaven, there is no time by scientific definition. Time is just a dimension.

Do the beheaded saints reigning with Christ stop reigning with Him after the so called thousand years? Do they cease being priests of God and of Christ? If so, then what do they do and what becomes of them?

PL - I'm going to copy this to my thread on the millennium and continue there as we are getting drowned out here with the rapturites.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/159071-millennium-literal-symbolic.html

 

[Roadkill]

There are ONLY 2 resurrections, that is exactly what it is saying. We can't add or take away from the scriptures.



Now you are adding to what Paul said in 1 Cor 15:23-28. After the resurrection of those that are his, it is the end, Paul is specific. Then you say, "Oh no, it s not the end."



The kingdom/church is on earth during the trib period. The trib described is mainly the withdrawing of blessings on the broken branches.




The "wrath" that we are saved from is the wrath of the 2nd death, not the tribs of this world.





Reasoning is good.




The Bible has more authority than any angel that you have spoken to or seen.

Islam started with an angel speaking.

Mormons started with an angel speaking.

There are real, lying, angels of Satan, who try to add, take away, or change the Word of God, the Bible. But for us, the Bible is the final authority and completed gospel word.

No spirit, vision, thought, or entity that disagrees with the Bible can stand.

In the end it will be completely destroyed, and possibly those who hold to the false word.



Love is good, truth is it's light to us, for us.

It does not say in the Bible there are only 2 Resurrections. Show me if you can? I know you can not.

Jesus' Resurrection is in itself proof that there are more.

God is not saving Christians from Man's wrath. That how we become Martyrs. He is Saving us from HIS wrath poured on this Earth during that time. Get it right friend.

This Cherubim Angel was challenged with confessing the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He sang the answer back to me beautifully. The how to do this is in 1st John chapter 4 verses 1-3. It is Bullet Proof to be scripture. This is how they show themselves to be who they are from. A demon will never profess the gospel of Jesus. Joseph Smith never challenged Moroni this way and Muhammad never challenged the Demon impersonating Gabriel in this way. So this scripture is in the Bible for what reason? To verify whom the spirit is from, God or Lucifer.

Mormons and Islam teach a gospel contrary to Jesus. I do not, He is the Way and that's it! Jesus is the Living Son of God and Jehovah Sabaoth's Christ. Jesus was crucified for our sins and was raised in the flesh for our Justification. ONLY Faith in Jesus Christ can a person enter into heaven.

This angel disagrees with your interpretation of Revelations, that's it. To condemn Him for this is something you will someday answer for to be sure friend.

After the Rapture there will be Jews and Gentile conversions. But because they waited until after this event they will have to undergo everything in the last 3 and 1\2 years of the Tribulation period. They will be pursued by the Ani-Christ and killed mercilessly. The age of Grace ends with this event and man will go back under the Mosaic Law for a short period of time before Jesus returns physically to take his Kingdom.

Yes there is much more after this event that I am referring to. Not the Last Resurrection that Paul writes of. Don't twist my words friend because what I do I do because God wants this information out now. The Children of Today are the Generation all of this will occur. This is for them to edify them. Not to start a new Religion. I will be justified when I stand before God the Father on this. Will you?

 

[abcdef]

Hi abcdef,

We are not far apart. I see in Rev. the recurring themes,

Then the next step would be to decide when the time lines begin and when they end.

but Rev. 20 is talking about another occurrence.

It's still the same story, Jesus' resur., the arrival of the kingdom on Pentecost, the time between the 2 resurrections, and the final events on planet earth.

This is after the 1000 years, when Satan is loosed.

Satan is a spirit and must have material flesh of men to inhabit. In Rev 20 Satan is in the dragon v 2, and the dragon has 7 heads and 10 horns as shown in Rev 12:3, which is Rome.

Rome could not destroy Israel until they were restored to Jerusalem and the Times of the gentiles (ToG's) came to an end. Lk 21:20-24, 24.

But Rome now is only an image, so he must deceive the kings of the east (Iran) into destroying Israel restored to Jerusalem.

There will be another great battle with Satan finally being destroyed.

It's here. Jerusalem is going to fall to Iran and it's allies Magog the gentile nations.

I suggest you study the White Throne Judgement more closely.

Just say what you mean, I'm not going to guess.

I do not believe anyone gets a second chance. Our argument consists of when they get the first one.

Yours,

Deade

I'm not arguing, I'm just discussing.

 

[Endoscopy]

Look if you have a Bible and keep studying with the guidance of The Holy Spirit you'll understand Revelation more and more, the Revelation symbolism is found in The OT. We don't need a room full of theologians. It's alright to consult teachers from the past but you seem to want to rely only on that for some reason. It's back tracking.

I'm 73 and was raised in family that attended church. I grew up in in the faith after accepting Jesus at a young age. I have studied apologetics and find it easy to send atheists running away with scientific evidence proving big bang evolution fails 5 scientific laws. I post them or give them in person. They just disappear. Never to hear from them again. On forums I run across them and query them again and they run away again.

I have studied the distinctives of the different denominations that still hold to the Bible. All peripheral issues not the core of the gospel. This doesn't include the 7 sisters mainline denominations that ignore the gospel and are secular controlled. Gary North wrote a book about the Presbyterian USA and how secular people took control of it. It is called "Crossed Fingers" meaning they lied when examined for pastorhood. The 7 sisters denominations have all been invaded the same way. I met a man from a Lutheran church who had just heard the gospel story the first time at a special evening service that was extended to the community.

 

[abcdef]

It does not say in the Bible there are only 2 Resurrections. Show me if you can? I know you can not.

1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24, says that exactly, 2 resurrections, no more, no less, to add resurrections is to contradict Paul directly.

Jesus' Resurrection is in itself proof that there are more.

How is that?

God is not saving Christians from Man's wrath. That how we become Martyrs. He is Saving us from HIS wrath poured on this Earth during that time. Get it right friend.

God withdraws His blessings on an unbelieving Israel, that is the wrath.

This Cherubim Angel was challenged with confessing the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He sang the answer back to me beautifully. The how to do this is in 1st John chapter 4 verses 1-3. It is Bullet Proof to be scripture. This is how they show themselves to be who they are from. A demon will never profess the gospel of Jesus. Joseph Smith never challenged Moroni this way and Muhammad never challenged the Demon impersonating Gabriel in this way. So this scripture is in the Bible for what reason? To verify whom the spirit is from, God or Lucifer.

The Bible is the ultimate authority for the Christian. No matter what any spirit or what ever says. To contradict scripture is not from God.

Mormons and Islam teach a gospel contrary to Jesus. I do not, He is the Way and that's it! Jesus is the Living Son of God and Jehovah Sabaoth's Christ. Jesus was crucified for our sins and was raised in the flesh for our Justification. ONLY Faith in Jesus Christ can a person enter into heaven.

Mormons teach that.

Try reading Galatians 1:6-9, about your angel that wants to add to the Bible.

This angel disagrees with your interpretation of Revelations, that's it. To condemn Him for this is something you will someday answer for to be sure friend.

I condemn him and everything he says in the name of Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

After the Rapture there will be Jews and Gentile conversions. But because they waited until after this event they will have to undergo everything in the last 3 and 1\2 years of the Tribulation period. They will be pursued by the Ani-Christ and killed mercilessly. The age of Grace ends with this event and man will go back under the Mosaic Law for a short period of time before Jesus returns physically to take his Kingdom.

Yes there is much more after this event that I am referring to. Not the Last Resurrection that Paul writes of. Don't twist my words friend because what I do I do because God wants this information out now. The Children of Today are the Generation all of this will occur. This is for them to edify them. Not to start a new Religion. I will be justified when I stand before God the Father on this. Will you?

What you have said shows that you are under the influence of a demon spirit.

Cast off your demon and embrace the Bible as the truth, not to be added to, or taken away from.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It does not say in the Bible there are only 2 Resurrections. Show me if you can? I know you can not. Jesus' Resurrection is in itself proof that there are more.

If we are willing to accept the fact that the first resurrection occurs in THREE PHASES, then there is no problem with two resurrections -- the first for the righteous dead, the second for the unrighteous dead. Too many Christians cannot wrap their heads around the fact that the first resurrection resembles a Hebrew harvest -- (1) the first fruits , (2) the main harvest, and (3) the gleanings. But that is what Christ is called -- "the first fruits of them that slept" [slept being a metaphor for death].

 

[abcdef]

If we are willing to accept the fact that the first resurrection occurs in THREE PHASES, then there is no problem with two resurrections -- the first for the righteous dead, the second for the unrighteous dead. Too many Christians cannot wrap their heads around the fact that the first resurrection resembles a Hebrew harvest -- (1) the first fruits , (2) the main harvest, and (3) the gleanings. But that is what Christ is called -- "the first fruits of them that slept" [slept being a metaphor for death].

Hi N6,

I'm don't believe that you have a good scriptural reason to divide the 1st resurrection into 3 parts. (some say 4).

Jesus compared the resurrection to the harvest, but didn't divide it into parts when His parables were told.

What verse connects the first, one resurrection of Jesus, that divides it into 3 parts?

----

The righteous dead and the unrighteous rise in which resurrection? I didn't quite get that.

 

[Endoscopy]

Hi N6,

I'm don't believe that you have a good scriptural reason to divide the 1st resurrection into 3 parts. (some say 4).

Jesus compared the resurrection to the harvest, but didn't divide it into parts when His parables were told.

What verse connects the first, one resurrection of Jesus, that divides it into 3 parts?

----

The righteous dead and the unrighteous rise in which resurrection? I didn't quite get that.

Dealing with eschatology things get pretty muddy!

 

[Bladerunner]

[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]Rev 13;15 [/B][/FONT]And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]17 [/B][/FONT]And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE

[COLOR="#0000CD"]Then in Rev 14:9-12.....you will find an angel from God stating what will happen to any man taking the mark of the Beast.

Verse 13 talks about the patience of the Saints for those that do not take the mark will die by the sword of the Beast. REv 13:7

Now before you say that they were going to die anyway, Yes because of their faith, they would not accept the mark which is why they are called the saints. Those that are going to die in the name of Jesus during this last 3/5 years or last 42 months.

Hope this answers you ?
Blade

 

[heartofdavid]

Hi Deade,

1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24.

Paul is specific. Jesus is the first resurrection. The next one is, those at His coming.

Then it is the end, death is destroyed, then the kingdom is delivered up to the Father for the wedding.

When the Rev is showing a resurrection (resur.), it is either the 1st, or 2nd resurrection.

Those who are seen in heaven with Jesus in 96 ad, are from the 1st resur.. with Jesus. Eph 4:8-10

Those who live and reign with Jesus are from the 1st resur., they are the OT saints.

The 2nd resur. is yet to come.




I am post trib. and I believe in a coming resurrection, one more, last resurrection.

I use the word rapture, so that people will have a concept identity with what I am saying.

There are 2 resurrections, the 2nd, will happen just before the fire from heaven.

It will happen exactly as it says at the 7th trumpet, Jerusalem will fall to the kings of the east (200 mill, 6th trump),

Then 3 1/2 days later, the resurrection when Jesus comes for the kingdom, and we are "caught up" with Him (rapture).

But then it is the end. No more resur's..




The Rev is not one consecutive time line. It is telling the same story several times over. The story is of Israel and the Satan Roman beast, generally, from the rejection of the gospel kingdom until this planet ends.

First fruits
That dynamic is off limits in your deal

 

[heartofdavid]

[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]Rev 13;15 [/B][/FONT]And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]17 [/B][/FONT]And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE

[COLOR="#0000CD"]Then in Rev 14:9-12.....you will find an angel from God stating what will happen to any man taking the mark of the Beast.

Verse 13 talks about the patience of the Saints for those that do not take the mark will die by the sword of the Beast. REv 13:7

Now before you say that they were going to die anyway, Yes because of their faith, they would not accept the mark which is why they are called the saints. Those that are going to die in the name of Jesus during this last 3/5 years or last 42 months.

Hope this answers you ?
Blade

Your post agrees that all take the mark or die

 

[heartofdavid]

If we are willing to accept the fact that the first resurrection occurs in THREE PHASES, then there is no problem with two resurrections -- the first for the righteous dead, the second for the unrighteous dead. Too many Christians cannot wrap their heads around the fact that the first resurrection resembles a Hebrew harvest -- (1) the first fruits , (2) the main harvest, and (3) the gleanings. But that is what Christ is called -- "the first fruits of them that slept" [slept being a metaphor for death].

You and me are the only ones that noticed the harvest.

It is in Ruth

 

[heartofdavid]

I did show you, but you just skip over posts that it is impossible for you to answer and maintain your false pretrib theory.

The answer is in post #8493, that shows that the mark is mainly concerning Rome and Israel, and not the planet.

Never happened. Never did.

That alone blows your deal away

 

[heartofdavid]

Preterist has become the emptiest wagon of em all

 

[heartofdavid]

No,the first resurrection is 4 parts.
First fruits....Jesus and the patriarchs.
Rapture is main harvest.


Without the OT,the NT is understood only in part.

This is why Ruth is key.

^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^

 

[abcdef]

First fruits
That dynamic is off limits in your deal

No, you just have it in the wrong place, too bad.

 

[abcdef]

You and me are the only ones that noticed the harvest.

It is in Ruth

The 1st resurrection divided into 4 parts is not taught in the prophecies. There are no verses that make the connection. Another pre trib twisting of scriptures.

 

[abcdef]

Never happened. Never did.

That alone blows your deal away

So just admit that you can't answer post #8493. See how you won't face the truth?

You can't answer because it blows pre trib away. Like chaff from a statue.