Not By Works

[joefizz]

No, I have eyes. Everybody can see the incessant accusations about lying and judging. Some people are unable to just talk about the topic. They have to make it personal.

probably because you are insistent on bait and reel tactics,as well as trying to insist upon a battle and division with others that you have caused yourself,but pretend that others have caused it,and resorting to childish accusations that add up to nothing,if you could let go of your know it all and forcive attitude you would probably start conversing "decently".

 

[Chester]

"Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

It says one born of God does not commit sin - period. It says one born of God cannot sin - period.

So, that puts us in a dilemma. If we are born of God we cannot sin - yet we can. If we are born of God we will not commit sin - yet we do.

John is talking about the two natures. Our sinless spiritual nature, which is Christ's nature, given to us at the moment of conversion, the one that does not, nor cannot, sin - and the sinful nature of the flesh, which causes us to sin, and are at war with constantly.

John is just making a simple statement that the text says:

The one who has been born out of God does not keep on sinning (practice) sin, because the seed (Greek "spermos") of God keeps on remaining in him. (The tenses here are the Greek present tense and mean ongoing action - sorry - you can't get away from that unless you take the KJV words as superior over the Greek words).

 

[joefizz]

Someday in heaven it will be a blast to sit at the next table nearby while Ralph, Budman, preacher4truth, gb9, and EG, and James and Paul sit at the table beside us. Can you imagine the fun that these guys will have in correcting Paul and James' doctrine! LOL!!!!

Now let's not make major assumptions there are already too many to count around here.

 

[Budman]

John is just making a simple statement that the text says:

The one who has been born out of God does not keep on sinning (practice) sin, because the seed (Greek "spermos") of God keeps on remaining in him. (The tenses here are the Greek present tense and mean ongoing action - sorry - you can't get away from that unless you take the KJV words as superior over the Greek words).

So, the KJV translators got it wrong?

Do you sin? How often? How many makes it less than "practice"?

How many sins, attributed to us, will damn us?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

So, the KJV translators got it wrong?

Do you sin? How often? How many makes it less than "practice"?

How many sins, attributed to us, will damn us?

if you have even 1 sin on your record you are going to be sent to hell.... justly


if you are covered by the sacrifice of Jesus

you will be saved and 0 sins will be accounted to you

 

[MatthewG]

Romans 5: 6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

 

[joefizz]

if you have even 1 sin on your record you are going to be sent to hell.... justly


if you are covered by the sacrifice of Jesus

you will be saved and 0 sins will be accounted to you

I'd say that's accurate because only what we do through Jesus/Holy spirit is without sin and justifiable.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I'd say that's accurate because only what we do through Jesus/Holy spirit is without sin and justifiable.

its very accurate hahaha

Romans 3:21-28
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

 

[PennEd]

That gave me a good laugh - I am not sure I want to sit by you either - something tells me you are a Philadelphia Eagles' fan and I can't stand that kind!

Nope. Never been an Eagles fan. I'm a pre-Montana niners fan. They stank through most of the 70s so that allowed my parents, who were poor,to get me 49ers pjs, because of how cheap they were for Christmas one year. And a fan was born!

I'm fairly unpopular at work too because I'm kinda rooting for the Pats. I like Tom Brady, and think he is unfairly targeted.
But I'm cool with the Eagles winning because a good number of them have been praising the Lord publicly.

 

[joefizz]

its very accurate hahaha

Romans 3:21-28
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

I understand all of this except one thing...what does hahaha mean?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I understand all of this except one thing...what does hahaha mean?

its an expression of joy via letters and pixels

 

[LightLoveHope]

he has said what it is....
ralph has lied many times about what others believe even after he has been told it was unaccurate

he has preached a false gospel and falsely accused others of having no fruit
and living in sin


you would know this if you read his posts

i see you are new so you werent aware

So Ralph is expressing others beliefs incorrectly, and this is being called lying and sin.
Are the others expressing Ralphs beliefs and their own correctly? If not then they
are in sin also.

Is it sin to believe the ideas behind someones position and to raise arguments against
this? Is anger involved, does it conform the Jesus's heart and ways?

Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
Hebrews 12:14

If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him.
1 John 2:29

For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Matthew 7:2

Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels.
And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth.
2 Timothy 2:23-25

I wonder if this is a quarrel or a discussion?
Peace to all of you who are in Christ

 

[joefizz]

Hey everyone, still trying to destroy each other? Cool!

No but as you know trolls eventually visit this thread,so there's always a bit of tension as well as amusing moments for you to tune in to!

 

[joefizz]

its an expression of joy via letters and pixels

lol you sounded so serious!

 

[LightLoveHope]

You are adding to what is written. That's not what it says at all. You put "living" where it doesn't belong. It says "does not, nor can, sin".

You can't explain that because of your "works" mentality. So you simply add "living in sin" to it.

It is a grievous sin to add to the word of God, Ralph.

This is a very difficult thing to say.
Miss-understand any part of the word of God and one is doing evil.

Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
2 Timothy 2:15

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
Rev 22:18-19

The above verses are applied to the book of prophecy, revelations, and not the whole
of scripture. And even here it is not sin, but judgement that is promised.
And taking away from the book takes away one right to heaven.
So care must be taken, both to include everything and not take anything away.
Dangerous stuff for the humble in heart.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I wonder if this is a quarrel or a discussion?
Peace to all of you who are in Christ

if what is?

ralph is one member of hundreds who have posted in here


overall

this thread was made to show truth to sapplings who dont know the truth yet

and to hopefully correct the self righteous who believe it is their works that get them into heaven

i was actually one of those in error

and even though i came in pointing my finger
i was never met with a "quarrel" even though if you look at the words i used then

i was trying to start one


there are many patient and loving brothers and sisters here willing to shine the light for a fellow sheep that cant quite see clearly yet


it made me go back to God
and pray
and continue in the word without the bias i had before from teachings of men
and verses taken out of context

and opened up all the scriptures that at one point in time that seemed to conflict other scriptures

ephesians
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

i used to be like the bolded


God provided the growth

but used this thread as the first domino to break me from my error

 

[Ralph-]

You have accused me, and many others, of believing in grace giving a license to sin. That is a lie you keep repeating over and over. None of us has ever said that. We all agree one should strive to live a holy life.

Your problem is, you refuse to acknowledge your lying, and instead say we are "attacking" you when we call you out on it.

I'm entitled to my opinion. What you are describing is grace is a license to sin. That's not 'lying'. That's my opinion. Just like you describe what I'm saying as a works gospel. That's not lying. You just see it that way, no matter how many times I explain how it is not. If I'm a liar for how I see what you're saying then you are too for the way you see what I'm saying.

We all agree one should strive to live a holy life.

Okay, good.
Where is the line between living in sin and striving to live a holy life? 10 sins a day? 8? 20? How do we quantify this?

Don't resort to personal attacks. Just explain the difference you're making between the unbeliever who lives in sin and won't inherit the kingdom and the believer striving to live a holy life.

This is like a big Chess board. I think I know where you will go from here. I'm ready. Your move.

 

[LightLoveHope]

if what is?

ralph is one member of hundreds who have posted in here


overall

this thread was made to show truth to sapplings who dont know the truth yet

and to hopefully correct the self righteous who believe it is their works that get them into heaven

i was actually one of those in error

and even though i came in pointing my finger
i was never met with a "quarrel" even though if you look at the words i used then

i was trying to start one


there are many patient and loving brothers and sisters here willing to shine the light for a fellow sheep that cant quite see clearly yet


it made me go back to God
and pray
and continue in the word without the bias i had before from teachings of men
and verses taken out of context

and opened up all the scriptures that at one point in time that seemed to conflict other scriptures

ephesians
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

i used to be like the bolded


God provided the growth

but used this thread as the first domino to break me from my error

Can you both be right and wrong? Right about you needed to know Gods love in your heart,
wrong about judging others for saying walking like Jesus is our purpose.

Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does what is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God.
3 John 1:11

Therefore I urge you to imitate me.
For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.
1 Corinthians 4:16-17

My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry
James 1:19

The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Can you both be right and wrong? Right about you needed to know Gods love in your heart,
wrong about judging others for saying walking like Jesus is our purpose.

i would never judge someone for encouraging good works


i would however call out a lie if i see it

 

[Chester]

So, the KJV translators got it wrong?

Do you sin? How often? How many makes it less than "practice"?

How many sins, attributed to us, will damn us?

So, the KJV translators got it wrong?

I didn't say they got it "wrong". I would say that knowing the Greek verb tense meanings certainly helps to understand the meaning. But the KJV is not "wrong". Example: I might in English say, "I do not speed when driving on the interstate". Most people would understand that I mean that under normal circumstances I do not go over the posted circumstances, but there have surely been times I went over the speed limit. So, when John writes that the one born of God "does not sin" he means that this is the normal practice of the believer.

Do I sin? How often? I have sinned in the past, I sinned yesterday, and I sinned today (Oh, shoot, that extra potato chip was "gluttony"), but with all of what God has given me and with all of his resurrection power (and the Holy Spirit in me) I am going to try not to sin anymore!

Is this practicing sin? No; God is not counting my sin till He gets to 490 (70x7); He forgives me every time I sin because of the shed blood Son Jesus Christ who completely paid the price for my sin.

How many sins, attributed to us, will damn us? One sin attributed to me would damn me!

But even if I sin twenty times today, each and every one of those sins is forgiven by the blood of Jesus Christ. None of those sins is attributed to me! I stand free and forgiven!

So what is John trying to say by: "the one born of God does not practice sin"?
It is not about the number of sins, it is about what happened in our nature. We are born again and now have been born "out of" God - The powerful, omniscient, loving, wise, etc. etc. God who created all of the universe lives in me! And since that is true it is incongruent and absurd for me even to think about just going out and sinning just for the fun of it!