word of faith movement

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
The translation I used shows the actual meaning. You are taking the words and putting a different meaning to them just like Satan did in the wilderness when he twisted the meaning of the verse.

if it talks like a WOFer, posts like a WOFer and argues like a WOFer...it has to be a...no wait...he says not

not sure...

does that make it even worse? :confused:
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,100
180
63
The translation I used shows the actual meaning. You are taking the words and putting a different meaning to them just like Satan did in the wilderness when he twisted the meaning of the verse.
I could make the meaning be and say whatever I wanted it to then.
Why even bother studying the meaning of the words written since you can completely ignore them, only to propagate a doctrine? A false one at that.
You refuse because you KNOW you are wrong and CAN'T admit it.
What I showed were actual writings from MANY other translator. How am I changing the meaning?
 
Last edited:

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,773
113
if it talks like a WOFer, posts like a WOFer and argues like a WOFer...it has to be a...no wait...he says not...
There are two serious issues with the WOF beliefs:

1. Improper application and interpretation of Scripture.

2. Promoting the idea that Scripture can be used as "incantations" to bring about events.

That the Prosperity Gospel has come from those with WOF ideas is not surprising.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
so here is Kenneth Copeland saying his name is also 'I AM' I consider that blasphemy. Word of Faith

[video=youtube;w3xM6f-4GH4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3xM6f-4GH4[/video]
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
[video=youtube;n8GTkTLHICE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8GTkTLHICE[/video]

this is pretty revealing...whole lotta 'little gods' and blasphemous statements by those who believe that is what they are

I don't usually post sensational vids like this, but this is quite the cornucopia of WOFers stating one of their main teachings

Joyce Meyer (much younger) is also on here I believe but it seems she has separated herself from these teachings and no longer teaches this...if she did, she would be in the same class

IMO, this does show that a person can turn from this mess but as far as I know, the others, with the exception of Jones who took his false beliefs to the grave and led others to their deaths, are still teaching the same thing with the same demonic conviction
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
to balance it out, here is a pretty short clip on what Jesus was really saying regarding 'gods'

[video=youtube;sUH_E3KD52A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUH_E3KD52A[/video]
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Isa 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.


Isa 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thyseed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

Jacob to Israel. Supplanter to he rules as God. Look it up. Has your Redeemer come to you?
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
That isn't how prayer works. The enemy doesn't reward people for prayer to God, even if say a wof believer claims blessings in abundance they are doing so to god maybe some try to do it by their own merit but it's still to God.

Yes., A house divided against itself can't stand. A basic principle.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
Please take a closer look at what is written sir.
Vs 23 is about SPEAKING TO THE MOUNTAIN, while vs 24 is about ASKING GOD for "whatsoever", and vs 25 is saying, forgive others or you won't be forgiven.
You are correct when you said that our faith is to be in God, which I neglected to write. I wrote for us to "have the faith OF God".
Either way, without God creating the fruit of our lips, or giving us the petition we ask of Him, we will receive nothing. And without having faith in God to do the same, again, we will receive nothing. And the only way I know to have faith in God is to believe what He said, or in what is written. And one of the most important verses in the bible I hold on to and continue to remind God is about His faithfulness to do what He said. I'm not TRYING to MAKE God do something He doesn't want to do, nor am I TRYING to convince God to do anything for me that He doesn't already want to do, when I remind Him of His word. What I am doing is convincing my heart that God will do what He said He would do, because if my heart doesn't believe, then I don't believe, and it will NOT manifest. But if my heart can be convinced that God WILL indeed do what He said in His word and cause my words to manifest or come to pass in the natural, or that He would answer my petition, then I will know it will come to pass. Once I know in my heart that I have something and speak it out my mouth or ask God in prayer for whatsoever and believe it is already done, without any doubt, then I know it is done or granted, and nothing will be able to stop it form manifesting. And that is what Mark 11:22-25 is about.
It's really very simple, IF you believe what is written.
I didn't take anything out of context, nor did I change the meaning, nor add to or take away anything from what is written.
Look at what I wrote again, and aside from the fact that I neglected to say that our faith is to be in God, can you show me where I perverted what is written in the verses of discussion? And can you still tell me that vs 23 is not about WOF?

Amen. We believers are to be daily being transformed by the renewing of our minds. We used to believe in only the things we saw and felt. That is how we were born., grew up and interacted with the world and God. When we got saved we became a new creation.... old things past away., behold all things have become new. This was a real transaction. We were born again. But our flesh is still feeling and thinking in our old manner of life because that is what we lived and how we learned to interact here on earth.

Our flesh our old way of being and thinking is much like a huge ringing bell that "gonged" and "gonged" for years. We got used to hearing it day in and day out. We saw and thought through the familiar pattern of bells sound. When we got saved the bell completely stopped (our old man died) But the reverberations of that old bell can still be heard and felt in our flesh.

Our calling today as new creations, as sons who have the Holy Spirit now is directing us to live by faith and not by sight-sound-feelings of our old manner of living and life. We have a new and living way that calls for faith and not human sight. We have God the Holy Spirit now who leads us., empowers us., teaches us., comforts us through life as we read the Bible and submit to Him and not ourselves and our old manner of life. Heb.11:1

Now faith is the assurance (the confirmation, [SUP][a][/SUP]the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].



This takes a daily reckoning in our mind to reckon these things to be so. They are true regardless of how we "feel" or what we "see" in the natural. Because our feelings are not "sanctified" We are learning the difference between our flesh and our spirit. Learning to walk in the Spirit so we don't fulfill the lusts of the old flesh.

This takes a life time of learning and it's a good trip because the Holy Spirit never leaves us alone in the journey. If my prayer has not been answered I continue and persist in the faith and keep listening and reading the truth in the Bible knowing Jesus paid for these many promises of my inheritance in the Bible. And while I'm persisting the Holy Spirit ministers and as John 7 promises., 38 says;

"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water."

I like the way the Amplified Bible puts it better because it describes the holding on for dear life., cleaving and depending on and needing Him more than anything that I can come up with to solve my problems;

[SUP]38 [/SUP]He who believes in Me [who cleaves to and trusts in and relies on Me] as the Scripture has said, From his innermost being shall flow [continuously] springs and rivers of living water.

The mountains in our life move because Jesus paid the way for us. We don't go in our own righteousness from the flesh., we go in because of the gift of His righteousness put on us. God sees us now as sons and heirs and joint heirs. Learning how to follow Jesus and be like Jesus by the Holy Spirit who always points us to Jesus is how this is done.

And an important thing to add here is we are not called cows of His pasture., we are called the sheep of His pasture. Cows get herded and pushed from behind. Sheep don't do that., their minds don't work that way. Sheep are a whole different animal and that is why in the Bible we are called sheep so often. Sheep need to be lead. Sheep learn to follow the One who they know loves them and takes care of them.

Sheep learn to trust the Shepherd to make the right choices for them even though the things on the side of the path look inviting., the sheep have learned through some trial and error it's deadly to not stay following the One who loves them and keeps them secure and safe. Any one or any place that Jesus isn't leading us is not safe for us. His rod and His staff they comfort... the Shepherd never beats the sheep into submission as some would have us believe.

The Shepherd allows the stupid sheep to walk off the path and when we do., we get into trouble and sometimes tangled in brush or thorns that scratch us up and sometimes badly. We start yelling for help because we found in ourselves we are weak and stupid., and the Shepherd comes and lovingly untangles us and carries us back on the right path.

The tribulations will come from 3 places., 1. The world 2. The flesh 3. The devil. They don't come from the hand of our Good Shepherd. With Him we shall not lack for anything. Without Him we are in danger of all kinds of calamities both mental and physical and spiritual.

There is so much to learn about the love of God in Christ and the promises we have. How to be like Jesus is our calling and the Holy Spirit equips us in this.
 
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63

Yes., A house divided against itself can't stand. A basic principle.
Then you are turning this into a fake temptation to say Satan doesn't prosper people:

Next the devil took him to the peak of a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. “I will give it all to you,” he said, “if you will kneel down and worship me.”
Matthew 4:8*-‬9 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/mat.4.8-9.NLT
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
I can tell, you haven't been around those who believe, because those things have happened, but even if that was the case, what does that have to do with WHAT IS WRITTEN?
You fail God every day and here you are pointing out and condemning other's failures.
I don't need to tell you what God calls that kind of person.
You also don't know or understand HOW WOF works or how healing is accomplished.
Tell me, why couldn't Jesus heal many people in His home town?
Did He lack the faith to get them healed?
Do you think anything has changed from that time to the present concerning the law of faith or how to get one healed?
You condemn those who at the very least TRY be a doer of the word they hear, what great works of faith have you done that would bring glory to God?


Thank you know1. We take one step at a time each day by faith. Each of us are on the road to learning from the Holy Spirit and the Word how to walk by faith and not by sight. That's what we are called to and as we go., we see the Lord work in our lives. We walk/work "out" what Jesus has worked "in" us.

The Bible says not to look to the right or to the left but look to Jesus who is the Author and Finisher of our faith. Keep our eyes on the prize. It's very encouraging for me to meet other believers along the way who understand the walk and spur me on in the faith. God bless!
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
Okay, thanks for showing me what you were talking about.
I thought I didn't say anything like that to you. It didn't sound like me, and you really read into something that I never said nor meant.
The subject you brought up was about Keneth Hagin, and what I was saying is that I don't follow Hagin and what he did in life or how he died, it has no bearing on what is written, or what I believe, for that matter.
That which others have done does not effect the truth or that which is written. Neither should you or anyone else base their faith or believing in any doctrine simply because someone you might look up to, believes the same.
What I was getting at is that it doesn't matter to me about Hagin, whom I started out with.
Most of what I know today, I learned first hand from seeking God and studying the scriptures without any outside influence.
I look up to one man, and even if he were to fall, I could not change what I believe, because my foundation is in the word of God, NOT the man.
So, though other might be shaken or even fall, even those I look up to, I cannot be, so long as I keep my eyes on the word of God/Jesus.
I am focused on the spiritual truth of God's word, and the natural life of others does not always display or prove the truth.
I am not shaken by the failure of other either, I am moved only by what I believe, and since my foundation is deep in the rock, I cannot be moved away from what I believe or the truth anymore by the events that happen to others.
That is what I was getting at when I asked you to keep to the subject and stop bringing diversion to WHAT IS WRITTEN.
I am about what is written, not about what other have done.
I was asking you to keep it about what is written, that is all.
Do you now understand what I was saying?


It's taken many years for me to not look at people or other Christians for my security. I lost everything by way of worldly securities like family., health and home. I was forced to look at myself and what I had believed because it all fell apart after 50yrs of a belief system of religion and who I thought God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit were and how they worked in our lives.

Then., a day came when the Holy Spirit showed me the love and grace of God in Jesus. That God's love and grace didn't depend on my worthiness to have it. His love totally depended on Jesus and Jesus is the Rock that will not move.

Jesus is the Anchor for the soul. He is the rest for the people of God. When we have Jesus we have life and that more abundantly. When we go in Jesus name, we have the answers to life shown to us by His Spirit.
Romans 1:1-2 says

Therefore, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life [which is] in Christ Jesus [the law of our new being] has freed me from the law of sin and of death.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (that is now the law we are in) sets us free from the old law of sin and death. AMEN!

 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
7seas your posting of ugliness is coming from your posts not mine or know1 or SOF. I don't follow anything those people on your videos shows. Nor do I know the ones who put those videos together. Those people are not my life or my faith. They are people I've never met. I know nothing of such ugly behavior.

Why must it come down to ugliness and accusation when Christians dare to talk about Jesus and His Word and the faith we are called to as we walk in the Spirit? I'm sorry for your bad experiences in life and your confusions and suffering mentally and emotionally. But we all have been to those places in our lives. Jesus gets us out.

We each have our experiences and our stories deeply ingrained into how we think and who we are today. But we are called to learn a new and living way. Look away from self and look to the truth that comes from God in Christ and put away our old manner of living. We are called to reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive to God every day. We are set free from those old things that had us confused and miserable.

We can trust the Holy Spirit to lead each one of us here into the truth. Biting and trying to devour one another is not from walking in the Spirit but comes from walking in the flesh.

To establish your hard worn lessons in life as fact and mine as fiction is childish. We both are sisters in Christ and we both have been through life and got a bit scratched up before Jesus got us out. Does it do any good to condemn and compare? No, it only causes division.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Ever wonder why WOF folks don't go into hospitals and simply cure everyone by the power of their words of faith?

Or raise folks from the dead?

Or stop tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis, etc.?

It's because they can't.
People have done these things Budman. But, nobody does anything without the Lord. Just as Jesus only did and said, what He heard and saw, so do His ministers.

Jesus only healed and delivered those that came to Him, or was sought in some way, like the Centurion for his servant.

This is His work. His body moves with the Head.

Its the same thing with His Word. Those words that He gives us personally as promises, we keep in our heart, speak nothing but faith until it's finished.

I would think this to be faith 101.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Then you are turning this into a fake temptation to say Satan doesn't prosper people:

Next the devil took him to the peak of a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. “I will give it all to you,” he said, “if you will kneel down and worship me.”
Matthew 4:8*-‬9 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/mat.4.8-9.NLT
steals, kills, destroys. Is this your idea of prosperity?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Living water that flows from our belly is the rhema Word.

And the church is supposed to be spiritual Israel.

[h=1]H3478[/h]
יִשְׂרָאֵל
yiśrâ'êl
yis-raw-ale'
From H8280 and H410; he will rule as God; Jisrael, a symbolical name of Jacob; also (typically) of his posterity: - Israel.
Total KJV occurrences: 2505

Rule over what? Ask yourselves.
 
Dec 4, 2017
906
35
0
Living water that flows from our belly is the rhema Word.

And the church is supposed to be spiritual Israel.

[h=1]H3478[/h]
יִשְׂרָאֵל
yiśrâ'êl
yis-raw-ale'
From H8280 and H410; he will rule as God; Jisrael, a symbolical name of Jacob; also (typically) of his posterity: - Israel.
Total KJV occurrences: 2505

Rule over what? Ask yourselves.
Personally I have never ascribed to any label.
But from what little has been shared about this subject. I was reminded of vessels of honor.

To which I can only humblly walk with the Lord as servant to master.

Even as it was with the orphan and widow who were visited that fatefull day.

"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Personally I have never ascribed to any label.
But from what little has been shared about this subject. I was reminded of vessels of honor.

To which I can only humblly walk with the Lord as servant to master.

Even as it was with the orphan and widow who were visited that fatefull day.

"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes?
pin,

The old covenant was servants with a master. Now, we aren't above the head by any means. But, what God is investing His all into at this time, the new covenant, is Sons, not servants. A servant doesn't inherit, only the freeborn.

What you said sounds humble, but it isn't. That's false humility. True humility is to bend self to the Will of Father, which is His Word, His living Torah. Son.

And as Hebrews begins, Father is speaking Son now in these last times.

Rise and be who you are.
 
Dec 4, 2017
906
35
0
pin,

The old covenant was servants with a master. Now, we aren't above the head by any means. But, what God is investing His all into at this time, the new covenant, is Sons, not servants. A servant doesn't inherit, only the freeborn.

What you said sounds humble, but it isn't. That's false humility. True humility is to bend self to the Will of Father, which is His Word, His living Torah. Son.

And as Hebrews begins, Father is speaking Son now in these last times.

Rise and be who you are.
That word covenant is strange to me.

Oil is one matter, and wine is another as far as I can see.

And yes, I worship in spirit and truth.
The Truth as foundations of the earth.
"Blessed are the meek........."

All promises are dear to my heart.
And instruction is a subject best administered individually.

Remember what the two disciples asked and what answer they recieved.

I posted elsewhere about the distinction between baptisms.
 
Last edited:
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Let me write that better: I posses books published by WOF leaders so I can prove what they say in their own words. I haven't slandered anyone.

everything and I mean everything, these WOF teachers do is for profit

and NAR as well

yet the TRUE word is always free

go figure