Not By Works

[gb9]

That's a good start. Make sure you emphasize the present tense of 'believes', and that the rest of the counsel of God shows us that the believing that does not then work is the believing that can not save. The believing that saves is signified by what it does. No proof of believing means no believing unto eternal life is in you to save you.

we do not have to " prove " things to each other. this is a wrong judgemental attitude. this sounds goods, but it puts controllers at the top of churches to monitor behavior.

in know this. down here in the south, many pastors, elders, etc.. are just like you. standing over everybody in judgement. that is why I attend a church that's motto is " leading people into a growing relationship with Jesus Christ ", not making sure everyone behaves correctly to prove their salvation.

as people grow in their walk with Christ, their behavior will change. but not every walk is the same. some folks throw out their drugs and never use again. some struggle with a long time to break addictions. that is why we ( you! ) should not judge. we ( you ! ) do not know where they are in their walk.

 

[star]

we do not have to " prove " things to each other. this is a wrong judgemental attitude. this sounds goods, but it puts controllers at the top of churches to monitor behavior.

in know this. down here in the south, many pastors, elders, etc.. are just like you. standing over everybody in judgement. that is why I attend a church that's motto is " leading people into a growing relationship with Jesus Christ ", not making sure everyone behaves correctly to prove their salvation.

as people grow in their walk with Christ, their behavior will change. but not every walk is the same. some folks throw out their drugs and never use again. some struggle with a long time to break addictions. that is why we ( you! ) should not judge. we ( you ! ) do not know where they are in their walk.

Constant judging has/will/does turn more people away from the Gospel than any other issue.

 

[AbigailZeke]

So, I was sharing with some friends here on CC about my recent experience and thought I'd share it here too.

I was on vacation and on my flight back, it was rather stormy and very turbulent. Now, I really hate flying. I hate feeling like a tuna in a flying can. No, actually, I hate having NO control. It's just funny this flying thing, I heard from a preacher before (Dr. Charles Stanley) that probably the highest record of repentance and life re-dedications to Christ were made up in the air. LOL.

So, having no control over whatever happens while in flight, is something I find unnerving and a real test of faith lol. But as I was sitting there, with my seatbelt tightly fastened, I was reminded of Jesus on the boat (Matthew 8:23-27) and there was a great storm. But Jesus was ASLEEP! And as if on cue, I heard the other passenger on my left, he was snoring VERY loudly that even though there was one vacant seat between us and I was near the window, I could hear him snoring over the sound of the plane engines. And then I remembered what my pastor (Joseph Prince) used to say, there are two kinds of Christians on the plane, one who grips the armrest, terrified by every wave and the other sound asleep. Both arrive at the destination safe but one is fully rested while the other looked as if they just escaped death row.

I find that it's the same with the Christian life, Jesus paid everything required for our peace and joy and we either live life knowing and believing that and be able to actually rest, or carry on being afraid of every toss and turn and live a defeated life. Our salvation has already been paid in full, yet we still struggle to help carry the plane. As if we can actually do anything in the first place.

So, with this realisation, while it was still a rather turbulent flight, I was far more relaxed than I ever was in a flight. While my heart was still beating too fast whenever I felt the bumps, my head was completely aware that Jesus was in control of that flight. It'll probably take some time for that knowledge to travel to my heart, but until then, it's good enough to know that I'm safe.

 

[Endoscopy]

I did. I said what the Bible says. A couple of times. But people act like I didn't say anything. And they go right back to their old argument.

Ever increasing traits of the Spirit is the 'number' of works that shows you are not living in your old unsaved self, 2 Peter 1:5-11. If you are not changed and changing from the life of sin you had before you were saved then you show that you are not saved. You will not inherit the kingdom when Jesus comes back as you think you will. You will be condemned with the lawless. And all your service and sacrifice in the church and your lip service to God's grace will not save you.



It's Paul usage, not mine. Galatians 5:21.
You reject what the Bible says when you resist what I'm saying about living in sin, not me. That's where I'm getting it from.


And you can't seem to get it that if you're sinning is equal to what Paul calls 'living in' sin then you will not inherit the kingdom of God. Since you equate the two, why are you exempt from the sentence of those who live in sin? You need to explain that. If you say because of grace, then you are making grace a license to sin.




If you are still living in your old life and not increasing in works of the Spirit, you do have the atonement for sins you think you have. Your old life and you being stuck in it is the proof.


So much effort to make people feel better in their sin instead of leading them out of it through the life of the Spirit. The forbidden grace doctrine which we can not discuss will win out in the end. This attitude will be the undoing of the visible church in this age. Then the end will come. This is the great falling away before Jesus comes back.

Here is Paul talking about himself.

Romans 7 NIV

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.


This is the same problem we all face.

 

[dcontroversal]

I truly cannot understand those who keep pointing to their works as their measuring stick of holiness.

When one is justified at conversion, that person is declared perfect.

Perfect. Righteous - forever.

Pastor Robert Metevia said, "To trust in Christ plus one's own ability to maintain a certain level of faith is not to trust in Christ alone to complete what He has started, but instead to trust in Christ plus human effort."

Some believers are so proud in "all they do" for the Lord, yet don't realize Jesus did all the works that are required. The works we do only justify us before our fellow human beings, and are the basis for rewards (or lack of) at the Judgment Seat, and that is all.

Like I said before, even an atheist claiming to be a Christian can do more good works than an actual Christian, and people like Ralph would be completely fooled because they look at the outside as proof of true conversion.

Believers will go to heaven when they die no matter what work or lack of work accompanies their faith. The eternal destiny of believers is not threatened by their acts of sin, even if they fall into sin and stay in that condition until they die.

That is what grace is all about. Jesus is our surety (Hebrews 7:22-25). He guarantees the promises of the new covenant by supplying what is needed when we default. He remains faithful to His promises, even when we are faithless (2 Timothy 2:11).

Yet, when we sin we can expect to reap the consequences of our actions. God chastens His children. If He does not - we are not His (Hebrews 12:8). And yet, He will never disown us. He holds us in His hand and nothing in all creation, including ourselves, can remove us. Ever. (John 10:28-29, Romans 8:31-39)

Christians who try to measure up to a standard of obedience will inevitably experience anxiety and fear. They will walk on eggshells, believing they have to "prove" themselves. They will experience a lack of peace and an improper motivation for holy living.

The truth of the matter is, God is already satisfied with the finished work of Christ on the cross. There is nothing we can add to this propitiatory work. We have a righteousness that cannot be improved upon.

As believers, we are now judged by His faith, by His obedience, and by His sinless life.

As Mr Metevia put it; God looks at us through "Jesus colored glasses".

If we hold up our own works as "proof" we are saved, they have become the "filthy rags" of Isaiah 64:6. But if we do good works as we are commanded (Ephesians 2:10) to justify us before men as a means to glorify the Lord (Matthew 5:16), then those works are indeed more precious than silver or gold, and will not be burned up (1 Corinthians 3:15).

Grace is not a license to sin, although we do sin - and will continue to sin. But praise God, all sin, past, present and future, has been washed away by the blood of Jesus, never to be remembered - thrown as far as the east is from the west (Psalm 103:12).

So, when people like Ralph thunder down about "living in sin", I would simply ask them - what sin? Though I sin, I have no sins attributed to me. None I am responsible for. Christ became sin for me, and removed them completely.

Amen....JUSTIFIED is a legal term and in this case means to be declared or rendered innocent even though we are guilty and the reason being is because Jesus has taken ALL of our sin to the cross while having the righteousness of Christ imputed dia faith and the blood.

He that believes on the Son is NOT CONDEMNED

He that believes on the Son is having everlasting life

It is the spirit that has been born from ABOVE and by INCORRUPTABLE SEED.

Those who teach it can be lost by sin plainly state that that which is incorruptable is corruptable and that the imputed righteousness of Christ is not SUFFICIENT to justifiy a man before God <<---the epitome of UNBELIEF!

 

[dcontroversal]

I say what I said to you a few days ago- it is not YOUR place to judge other's salvation.

if you want to see folks come to Christ, drop the judgemnetal attitude. if you want to know why the Church is not doing well, look in the mirror. you do not have the keys to the Kingdom.

Amen.......note the following

Keys to Life and Heaven <---Jesus and faith

His view

Keys to life and heaven <--His works to help Jesus because Jesus' blood and faith into said blood is not sufficient......

 

[dcontroversal]

we do not have to " prove " things to each other. this is a wrong judgemental attitude. this sounds goods, but it puts controllers at the top of churches to monitor behavior.

in know this. down here in the south, many pastors, elders, etc.. are just like you. standing over everybody in judgement. that is why I attend a church that's motto is " leading people into a growing relationship with Jesus Christ ", not making sure everyone behaves correctly to prove their salvation.

as people grow in their walk with Christ, their behavior will change. but not every walk is the same. some folks throw out their drugs and never use again. some struggle with a long time to break addictions. that is why we ( you! ) should not judge. we ( you ! ) do not know where they are in their walk.

Not to mention his presently believe crap to remain saved....One who has believed "PAST TENSE" IS SAVED, JUSTIFIED, SEALED AND SANCTIFIED in Christ eternally....now he is pushing the same rigmarole Phart pushed.....his gospel fully centers the focus on himself, what he does and by his power......another lemon twist false gospel!

 

[TruthTalk]

You're full of yourself, totally self important. You've reached exactly nobody with the above nonsense. Congrats!

A 5 year old child can articulate God's saving grace better than Ralph; his words are earthly and lack any spiritual power. I turned his nonsense off months ago because the bible says "stay away from false teachers." And someone needs to tell Ralph that, 'once saved always saved', is not a doctrine of the the Church, however the eternal security of the believer is a doctrine of the Church; And Christians are disciples of Jesus Christ, and not a guy named Calvin.

"I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned, "Keep away from them." Romans16:17

Thank you for your words of wisdom Preacher and God bless!

 

[dcontroversal]

A 5 year old child can articulate God's saving grace better than Ralph; his words are earthly and lack any spiritual power. I tuned him out months ago because the bible says "stay away from false teachers." And someone needs to tell Ralph that, 'once saved always saved', is not a doctrine of the the Church, however the eternal security of the believer is a doctrine of the Church; And Christians are disciples of Jesus Christ, and not a guy named Calvin.

"I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned, "Keep away from them." Romans16:17

Thank you for your words of wisdom Preacher and God bless!

Amen bro.....another worker for that devalues Christ, enthrones self and by deed, work and word states clearly that his gospel is not biblical.

 

[Endoscopy]

Amen....JUSTIFIED is a legal term and in this case means to be declared or rendered innocent even though we are guilty and the reason being is because Jesus has taken ALL of our sin to the cross while having the righteousness of Christ imputed dia faith and the blood.

He that believes on the Son is NOT CONDEMNED

He that believes on the Son is having everlasting life

It is the spirit that has been born from ABOVE and by INCORRUPTABLE SEED.

Those who teach it can be lost by sin plainly state that that which is incorruptable is corruptable and that the imputed righteousness of Christ is not SUFFICIENT to justifiy a man before God <<---the epitome of UNBELIEF!

There is only one unforgivable sin. Rejecting the sacrifice of Jesus.

 

[BillG]

Constant judging has/will/does turn more people away from the Gospel than any other issue.

I would say the issue is not judging but how we judge.
If I knew a brother was struggling and walking in a way that was contrary to his new nature I would come alongside and try to find out why, the same is if a brother came to me with an issue.

Walk with them, pray with them and so on.

I'm sure that majority of us would do the same.

Yet some would not.
Question their salvation "If your really saved you wouldn't be doing this, Bible says don't do so stop doing it"

That's judging that turns people away.

Then of course there are people who wouldn't even bother walking alongside. Just assumed they are not saved.

Then people go MIA, Same attitude.
Then newborns in Jesus, broken, hurt people who bring baggage with them.
Same attitude. Judge a level of works and walk according to the standards they set, yet neglecting the baggage they have that inhibits their walk with God.

If you haven't guessed by now but the truth is, this attitude makes my blood boil.

I have seen it, I have experienced it.

I thank God for the truly amazing Godly men he has bought into my life.
Those willing to love and accept me where I am at and not afraid to correct me, with words and with scripture.

A genuine dumb sheep who has gone astray will want a way back.
They tend not to because of fear of judgement.

I remember on the occasions when I did go to church after I stopped going, the following happened.

So called friends They would greet me with "Hello are you new here?

They had no idea that when I set my mind on going to church that the few nights before I would have nightmares, could not eat basically my severe anxiety that I suffer with went through the roof. My wife at times had to wake me up during the nightmares.
Their stupid crass comments just added more pain, hurt and guilt upon me

But why would they know what was going on?
They never took the time to seek me out. Judgemental to the core.

Shame on you who condemn people, write off people, have no interest in walking with people.

As I said above it makes my blood boil.

Sorry for the rant.

Anyway there was a downside to my precious saviour who came after this dumb sheep, restored him, reassured him of who he is in him, dealt with the issues that caused me wander off and still doing so.

The downside was that every Sunday when I did not go to church I did the weeks ironing.
Ironing our 4 kids uniforms, my work shirts, my wife's clothes whilst watching Jesus of Nazareth.

When I got back into church I stopped ironing.

Mind you my wife was so happy to have a husband in church than one stuck at home doing the ironing

 

[Endoscopy]

I would say the issue is not judging but how we judge.
If I knew a brother was struggling and walking in a way that was contrary to his new nature I would come alongside and try to find out why, the same is if a brother came to me with an issue.

Walk with them, pray with them and so on.

I'm sure that majority of us would do the same.

Yet some would not.
Question their salvation "If your really saved you wouldn't be doing this, Bible says don't do so stop doing it"

That's judging that turns people away.

Then of course there are people who wouldn't even bother walking alongside. Just assumed they are not saved.

Then people go MIA, Same attitude.
Then newborns in Jesus, broken, hurt people who bring baggage with them.
Same attitude. Judge a level of works and walk according to the standards they set, yet neglecting the baggage they have that inhibits their walk with God.

If you haven't guessed by now but the truth is, this attitude makes my blood boil.

I have seen it, I have experienced it.

I thank God for the truly amazing Godly men he has bought into my life.
Those willing to love and accept me where I am at and not afraid to correct me, with words and with scripture.

A genuine dumb sheep who has gone astray will want a way back.
They tend not to because of fear of judgement.

I remember on the occasions when I did go to church after I stopped going, the following happened.

So called friends They would greet me with "Hello are you new here?

They had no idea that when I set my mind on going to church that the few nights before I would have nightmares, could not eat basically my severe anxiety that I suffer with went through the roof. My wife at times had to wake me up during the nightmares.
Their stupid crass comments just added more pain, hurt and guilt upon me

But why would they know what was going on?
They never took the time to seek me out. Judgemental to the core.

Shame on you who condemn people, write off people, have no interest in walking with people.

As I said above it makes my blood boil.

Sorry for the rant.

Anyway there was a downside to my precious saviour who came after this dumb sheep, restored him, reassured him of who he is in him, dealt with the issues that caused me wander off and still doing so.

The downside was that every Sunday when I did not go to church I did the weeks ironing.
Ironing our 4 kids uniforms, my work shirts, my wife's clothes whilst watching Jesus of Nazareth.

When I got back into church I stopped ironing.

Mind you my wife was so happy to have a husband in church than one stuck at home doing the ironing

The problem is that the gospel message sounds judgmental to non believers. They want to reject the concept of sin since that means a fixed set of laws and not the relative rules they prefer. That way they can change them at any time.

 

[BillG]

No, it's WORSE than that.

Now it's 'come to our church and hang out with us and get involved in all the things we're doing so others can come hang out with us too'. That's it. And they think that's what it means to know and love and serve God. And any sermons that are preached boil down to how grace means you don't have to be different when Jesus comes back to be saved because salvation is not by works and how that would be you trying to save yourself.

I'm not going to go into detail how it came to this but this is why the message of grace has been corrupted. The countless numbers of unconverted we've attracted into the church with our misguided programs and community outreach are changing the message of grace to suit their own unconverted selves.

You cast a broad brush over the whole church. How many churches have YOU been to that do what you accuse them off?

Dont quote what you see on Christian TV. You are not part of that.
You are part of your local church.

With regards to your first paragraph.

I sincerely hope you are not saying it's wrong to have unsaved, people coming to your church.
With regards to your last paragraph I hope it's not the same as well.

Nothing wrong with having unsaved people in the church and loving them where they are at.

Stop casting a broad brush.

Jesus knows his bride, his children.
He is strong enough to preserve his church.
He judges ultimately.

Not you, not me, not anyone on this earth.

 

[BillG]

Loving someone does not mean you do not tell them the truth. In fact it is unloving to suppress the truth that a person needs to hear so they can be saved and delivered from sin and made ready to meet Christ when he returns.

Maybe your beef is in how you tell the truth that people need to hear so they can get saved and grow up into Christ and be ready to meet Him at His return.

"but speaking the truth inlove, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ"-Ephesians 4:15.

What on earth does the and that is embolded mean. What is my beef

 

[star]

So, I was sharing with some friends here on CC about my recent experience and thought I'd share it here too.

I was on vacation and on my flight back, it was rather stormy and very turbulent. Now, I really hate flying. I hate feeling like a tuna in a flying can. No, actually, I hate having NO control. It's just funny this flying thing, I heard from a preacher before (Dr. Charles Stanley) that probably the highest record of repentance and life re-dedications to Christ were made up in the air. LOL.

So, having no control over whatever happens while in flight, is something I find unnerving and a real test of faith lol. But as I was sitting there, with my seatbelt tightly fastened, I was reminded of Jesus on the boat (Matthew 8:23-27) and there was a great storm. But Jesus was ASLEEP! And as if on cue, I heard the other passenger on my left, he was snoring VERY loudly that even though there was one vacant seat between us and I was near the window, I could hear him snoring over the sound of the plane engines. And then I remembered what my pastor (Joseph Prince) used to say, there are two kinds of Christians on the plane, one who grips the armrest, terrified by every wave and the other sound asleep. Both arrive at the destination safe but one is fully rested while the other looked as if they just escaped death row.

I find that it's the same with the Christian life, Jesus paid everything required for our peace and joy and we either live life knowing and believing that and be able to actually rest, or carry on being afraid of every toss and turn and live a defeated life. Our salvation has already been paid in full, yet we still struggle to help carry the plane. As if we can actually do anything in the first place.

So, with this realisation, while it was still a rather turbulent flight, I was far more relaxed than I ever was in a flight. While my heart was still beating too fast whenever I felt the bumps, my head was completely aware that Jesus was in control of that flight. It'll probably take some time for that knowledge to travel to my heart, but until then, it's good enough to know that I'm safe.

Awesome story. Thanks for sharing. I hate to fly as well. I'm a armrest gripper.

 

[star]

I would say the issue is not judging but how we judge.
If I knew a brother was struggling and walking in a way that was contrary to his new nature I would come alongside and try to find out why, the same is if a brother came to me with an issue.

Walk with them, pray with them and so on.

I'm sure that majority of us would do the same.

Yet some would not.
Question their salvation "If your really saved you wouldn't be doing this, Bible says don't do so stop doing it"

That's judging that turns people away.

Then of course there are people who wouldn't even bother walking alongside. Just assumed they are not saved.

Then people go MIA, Same attitude.
Then newborns in Jesus, broken, hurt people who bring baggage with them.
Same attitude. Judge a level of works and walk according to the standards they set, yet neglecting the baggage they have that inhibits their walk with God.

If you haven't guessed by now but the truth is, this attitude makes my blood boil.

I have seen it, I have experienced it.

I thank God for the truly amazing Godly men he has bought into my life.
Those willing to love and accept me where I am at and not afraid to correct me, with words and with scripture.

A genuine dumb sheep who has gone astray will want a way back.
They tend not to because of fear of judgement.

I remember on the occasions when I did go to church after I stopped going, the following happened.

So called friends They would greet me with "Hello are you new here?

They had no idea that when I set my mind on going to church that the few nights before I would have nightmares, could not eat basically my severe anxiety that I suffer with went through the roof. My wife at times had to wake me up during the nightmares.
Their stupid crass comments just added more pain, hurt and guilt upon me

But why would they know what was going on?
They never took the time to seek me out. Judgemental to the core.

Shame on you who condemn people, write off people, have no interest in walking with people.

As I said above it makes my blood boil.

Sorry for the rant.

Anyway there was a downside to my precious saviour who came after this dumb sheep, restored him, reassured him of who he is in him, dealt with the issues that caused me wander off and still doing so.

The downside was that every Sunday when I did not go to church I did the weeks ironing.
Ironing our 4 kids uniforms, my work shirts, my wife's clothes whilst watching Jesus of Nazareth.

When I got back into church I stopped ironing.

Mind you my wife was so happy to have a husband in church than one stuck at home doing the ironing

Very well put. I also abhor nitpicking, holier-than-thou, elevated believers. None of us has any reason to feel "superior" to anyone else. Humility is a wonderful virtue.

 

[star]

The problem is that the gospel message sounds judgmental to non believers. They want to reject the concept of sin since that means a fixed set of laws and not the relative rules they prefer. That way they can change them at any time.

I'm more concerned with believers sitting in the judgment seat instead of holding out a helping hand, especially to their own brothers and sisters.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So, I was sharing with some friends here on CC about my recent experience and thought I'd share it here too.

I was on vacation and on my flight back, it was rather stormy and very turbulent. Now, I really hate flying. I hate feeling like a tuna in a flying can. No, actually, I hate having NO control. It's just funny this flying thing, I heard from a preacher before (Dr. Charles Stanley) that probably the highest record of repentance and life re-dedications to Christ were made up in the air. LOL.

So, having no control over whatever happens while in flight, is something I find unnerving and a real test of faith lol. But as I was sitting there, with my seatbelt tightly fastened, I was reminded of Jesus on the boat (Matthew 8:23-27) and there was a great storm. But Jesus was ASLEEP! And as if on cue, I heard the other passenger on my left, he was snoring VERY loudly that even though there was one vacant seat between us and I was near the window, I could hear him snoring over the sound of the plane engines. And then I remembered what my pastor (Joseph Prince) used to say, there are two kinds of Christians on the plane, one who grips the armrest, terrified by every wave and the other sound asleep. Both arrive at the destination safe but one is fully rested while the other looked as if they just escaped death row.

I find that it's the same with the Christian life, Jesus paid everything required for our peace and joy and we either live life knowing and believing that and be able to actually rest, or carry on being afraid of every toss and turn and live a defeated life. Our salvation has already been paid in full, yet we still struggle to help carry the plane. As if we can actually do anything in the first place.

So, with this realisation, while it was still a rather turbulent flight, I was far more relaxed than I ever was in a flight. While my heart was still beating too fast whenever I felt the bumps, my head was completely aware that Jesus was in control of that flight. It'll probably take some time for that knowledge to travel to my heart, but until then, it's good enough to know that I'm safe.

thats awesome sis, Praise God and thank your for sharing. We need more of this. Need to water down some pridein CC which has been pretty sickening lately

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why do you slam Calvinists every chance you get ? ? ? We have NOTICED that you do not even know what we believe, only what someone else, with ERRORS in the Doctrines about what we Believe, while you go on raling about Calvinists. Is that some kind of PHOBIA, about being called a Calvinists? AND like I said before, I only believe in 3 of the 5 points, so NOBODY will claim me.

Here is the TRUTH. It is NOT my righteousness, IT IS HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, AS HE DOES WHAT HE WANTS ME TO DO IN MINISTRY.

DO YOU REMEMBER, that we are NOT greater than our master?


John 14:10 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I speak to you I do not speak on My own. The Father who lives in Me does His works.



Now YOU are doing your Works by your own STRENGTH, NOT THE FATHER'S, nor of JESUS CHRIST'S.

That is where you go wrong.

I used to be a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain, in the "end of the line", in California Dept. of Corrections, for several years. I DID NOT DO ANYTHING BY MY POWER, I allowed JESUS CHRIST to DO IT through me. He gets all the Glory for those works.


Galatians 2:19-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For through the law I have died to the law, so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ
[SUP]20 [/SUP] and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.


I told you before, it is your motive for doing works, that is WRONG.

I think his beef is with calvin, He can not understand what people say because he is arguing what he was taught about a certain group of people. And tries to put everyone under that group.

He does not understand them, let alone the people who are united With them in the gospel.

 

[BillG]

The problem is that the gospel message sounds judgmental to non believers. They want to reject the concept of sin since that means a fixed set of laws and not the relative rules they prefer. That way they can change them at any time.

I see what you are saying.
To me though if the Gospel message sounds judgmental then it's not the Gospel message.
Those who find it offensive do so because they have no need for God, they are aka.

Yet if the true gospel is preached then those who need it will hear it.

What is the true gospel?

John 3:16-17
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Luke 19:5-10
5 And when Jesus came to the place, He looked up and saw him, and said to him, “Zacchaeus, make haste and come down, for today I must stay at your house.” 6 So he made haste and came down, and received Him joyfully. 7 But when they saw it, they all complained, saying, “He has gone to be a guest with a man who is a sinner.”
8 Then Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord, I give half of my goods to the poor; and if I have taken anything from anyone by false accusation, I restore fourfold.”
9 And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham; 10 for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

With regards to sin? What does Jesus say?

John 16:8-10
8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;


Zacchaeus repented off the sin of unbelief. He said "Look Lord"

So he repented off the sin of unbelief then the sins he committed (stealing).

It's that not the Gospel?

Is the Gospel stop stealing and you will be saved?
Or is it "Place your faith in Jesus who loves you and then he will work in you to conform you to his image?