The Rapture

[Locutus]

I do not agree that the millennium was the 40 year period between Christ and 70 AD. I believe we are in the millennium right now. It does not seem possible to associate 40 years with 1,000 years. Also, during the "1,000 years" there is/was to be a period without Satanic deception of the "nations." I see a lot of deception between 30-70 AD.

Let's look at this from a different view point PL:

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Obviously the beloved city is Jerusalem - we know from John that the city of the whore (aka 1st century Jerusalem) is destroyed in one of his other visions. I believe Revelations contains different revelatory images of the destruction of the one city in the war of 66 - 70 AD.

Now, do we consider that the city in 20:9 is another destruction after the city of the whore is destroyed or is he describing the same event using different visions and "fleshing" out the details?

I believe it is just another but differing vision of the 70 AD destruction - therefore "after the thousand years are expired" is directly related to that time.

It may be argued that the "compassed the camp of the saints about" must mean the saints are Christian - but when we look at the Greek the word can also mean "religious ones" which could mean the religious Christ rejecting Jews of that time.

 

[louis]

I believe the sea from which the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns shall rise from represents fusion energy that will be dervied by hydrogen, which the earth's seas have a virtually unlimited (bottomless pit) quantity of.
Fusion is the power the devil will give to the beast that will have the whole world worshipping the dragon, and the beast; as the material good that will be produced at a virtual pittance in cost, will bring about a hedonist society, as in the days of Noah, and as in the days of Lot in Sodom.

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

(

There is something called cause and effect.
Ask yourselves what cause shall bring about effect days as those of Noah and Lot in Sodom?

 

[Endoscopy]

There is something called cause and effect.
Ask yourselves what cause shall bring about effect days as those of Noah and Lot in Sodom?

You can see it today. America was a Christian nation from the start. Alexis de Tocqueville a French noble toured the US from May 1831 to February 1832 and talked to many people including Andrew Jackson and Daniel Webster. He wrote volumes about the US. What he said made the US great was the commitment to Christianity and its values. Today the US is over 50% secular and declining with many denominations not teaching the Bible. Gary North wrote a book called Crossed Fingers about Presbyterian USA being taken over by secular people. This has happened to all of the 7 Sisters denominations and teaching the Bible doesn't happen in most of them. Today it is popular to ridicule Christians and our beliefs.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

If what i say will come to pass does not come to pass then i am a false prophet. If what i teach is contrary to Scriptures than i am a false prophet. i don't need proof that i am as He made me. i know that i am.



lol. seriously, just because YOU say that does not agree with Scriptures does not make it so. If i teach something that is contrary to Scriptures then point that out. If i say Mid-Trib is when God returns to the earth and Raptures the Church, then by all means reveal the Scriptures that you think is contrary? Or is the TRUTH that YOU think mid-trib is contrary to Scriptures, therefore YOU think it is contrary? What i teach is NOT contrary to Scriptures, For sure contrary to the interpretations of men. Contrary to men's opinions, Contrary to men's false doctrines.

You teach

Who told you that? God? Men? or Yourself?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

1 Cor. 15:52

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Seven Seals are opened, then Seven Trumpets are blown, then seven vials are poured out. These take place during the 7 year Tribulation Period.

The Last Trumpet sounding is when Christ Raptures the Church. Mid-Trib is Scriptural.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

i never said there were no Scriptural Reasons for a pre-trib position. pture happens BEFORE any Tribulations, This statement is TRUE. There are no Scriptures that teach the Rapture happens AFTER all the Tribulations, This statement is likewise TRUE. Mid-Trib is the only position that does not contradict one solitary verse in all oThere would Scriptural reasons for a pre -trib as well as a post -trib position. There might even be Scriptural reasons not to have a Rapture at all. i am not talking about reasons, but what is and what is not. There are no Scriptures that teach the Raf Scriptures. Namely we will go through some of the Tribulations but not all of it.

Yes you did. I quoted you saying just that here.

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

Can you show me one verse that says the Rapture happens BEFORE any Tribulations? Absolutely nothing. Is it not True you are basing the entire pre-trib belief on an interpretation that the Church is not appointed to wrath?

Please notice what i actually said

i never said there were no Scriptural Reasons for a pre-trib position.

There may be many Scriptural REASONS fora pretrib belief. i never said there was no Scriptural REASONS for a pretrib position. i have been clear though, that there is no Scriptural VERSE that says pretrib is the Truth. i forgive you for this misunderstanding though.

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

i don't have to do anything but reveal what God has told me, this He has already told me. So i do not have to demonstrate why certain verses do this or don't do that. i have told you the Truth, it is your choice what you decide to do with it.
DiscipleDave

Yes you certainly do if you are claiming to be a prophet regarding end times.

A prophet merely reveals what God has told him/her is going to happen. God told me, that it is not my place to try to convince anyone. i tell you what He told me, if you don't believe it, then be like the Bereans and search the Scriptures to see if what i say is TRUE or not True. If i tell you what God told me that one day the anti-christ will say on TV "Where is your God now?" i have done what God told me to do and revealed to you what He told me. It is not my place to try to convince you that the anti-christ will communicate using the TV, it is not my place to try to convince you that what God told is TRUE and will happen. If you don't believe what He told me, what is that to me? If you believe what He told me, what is that to me? So whether you believe or don't believe is irrelevant to me, i do what God requires of me, that is what is relevant to me, and He requires me to reveal some of the things He has told me, those things i then reveal.

I don't have to believe you just because you say something if you cannot support your position from scripture.

True, and as i say above, What is it to me if you believe or don't believe?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[Deade]

Hi everyone,

When Christ comes back the very next time, He will encircle the earth while the asleep in Christ will rise and join Him. Then those that are alive will be changed into incorruptible spirits to join Him. Jesus said that no man has ascended to heaven. John 3:13: “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”

Don't give me a reference to the transfiguration when Jesus appeared with Moses and Elijah. This is an example of a vision. But a vision is just a vision, we should not draw doctrine from them. A vision is an exception to what is literal. All the patriarchs in Hebrews 11 are still waiting to get to heaven. I remind you this was written after the cross. No, Hebrews 12 doesn't prove anyone in heaven.

Everyone says that we will have glorified bodies, after our resurrection. I don't agree, we will be spirit. John said: John 4:24: “God is spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth.” and in 1 John 3:2: "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is." Sounds like we will be spirits too.

Yours,

Deade

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

Tell me, if God spoke to you in conversation tonight upon your bed, and told you what is going to happen in the Future, Would you believe what men say is going to happen (ie the four eschatologyical views) or will you believe what God told you? Answer the question. If you don't, then it is apparent you don't think God speaks to people. You believe there can't possible be another view except for your four eschatological views that men have come up with. Even when i have told you that it is God that has told me what is going to happen in the future. Can you answer the question or not. Just in case you forgot what i asked already i will present it again:

if God spoke to you in conversation tonight upon your bed, and told you what is going to happen in the Future, Would you believe what men say is going to happen (ie the four eschatologyical views) or will you believe what God told you?

Yes or no answer?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Would God say something contrary to the Bible?? I think not.

Absolutely not. If then you think that i have said something that is contrary to Scriptures, then please reveal what i said and the Scriptures that is contrary. Thanks.

The four eschatologyical views come from the Bible.

lol., The four eschatologyical views come from men, who derive their interpretations from the Bible. The four eschatologyical views do not come from the Bible as you say, but comes from men who are interpreting the Bible. These men, do not understand this simple TRUTH. Interpretations belong to God NOT TO MEN. God will interpret to whom God will interpret a thing.

At most He would tell me which one is correct. Are you saying God visited you and told you the future? Think carefully before answering that question.

Yes. i have had many conversations with God prior to 1994. Nothing after 1994. If i am lying let me burn in Hell for all eternity, let me die a LONG and horrible, painful death. Not only that, if i am lying let my Mom and Dad who are still yet living die the same fate. Let my children suffer the same fate, let my siblings suffer the same fate. If i am lying let any person who i love and that loves me, die a horrible painful longsuffering death and all of them burn in hell for eternity, i pray that in Jesus name. Amen. Not that saying all this will convince this generation, no not this generation. They take thought "God speaking to people today, what absurdity!" Their mentality is such, that if God does not speak to them, He does not speak to anyone else. Is it not written God is the same yesterday, today, and forever? Did God speak to people in the past? Where in all of Scriptures does it say or imply that God no longer speaks to people? So if Scriptures does not teach that, who is teaching that? satan for one. satan knows all to well that in the last days God will speak to people again as a last attempt to try to reach people with His TRUTHS, what better strategy is there for satan then to convince people that God does not speak to people any more, that way when God does speak to people, and these same people tell the TRUTH that God told them this or that, then who will believe them. Also as another strategy, satan talked to people in the past and told them the world was going to end, and then convinced them to go to the corner of streets and prophesy the end of the world. When they all turn out to be wrong, who will listen to the REAL prophets who will be saying the End of the World is at hand? Brilliant strategy on satans part. He knows real prophets will show up in the last days, so create a bunch of false ones, so nobody will believe the real ones when they show up in the last days. Really brilliant, i say brilliant because it is working with this generation. Who believes there are prophets walking the Earth? Who believes God actually talks with people like He has always done in the past? Who?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

I have read and heard too many that sounded just like you asserting God gave them a vision of what will happen, whenever anyone gets that adamant about it I take it with a huge grain of salt.

It is only wise to do so. Many false prophets satan has raised up, to cause this generation not to believe the real ones when they show up.

See post above.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

The Pre-Trib believers will account for most of the falling away from the Christian Faith. They have went all their lives thinking that Jesus is going to Come BEFORE the tribulation Period Starts, so when it does start and it will be Terrible such as was never seen before nor ever will be seen again, and Jesus did not come as they supposed He should have, these will be the first to fall away after hearing the anti-christ words "Where is your God now?" He will convince the world to come together as a human race, putting all regions or religeous beliefs aside. There will be a great falling away from all faiths in the World. People all over the world will start condemning anyone who puts their faith in a God, any God.
When Mountains disappear, oceans are gone, the planet is out of orbit, the Earth spins faster. and God does not show up yet? Many and i say many who profess to be Christian will fall away from the Faith because Christ did not come pre-Trib as they were taught all their lives. But its not like you did not know the TRUTH, for lo, i have told you the TRUTH and told you it is from God, but you reject it, because TRUTH is not in you. Those who continue to hold on to doctrines that are contrary to the Holy Word of God, will rarely if ever come to the TRUTH.

DiscipleDave

You made all that up.
just sat there and made it up.

What is it to me if you do not believe what God told me?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

And therein lies the problem, men's interpretations


i don't have to do anything but reveal what God has told me, this He has already told me. So i do not have to demonstrate why certain verses do this or don't do that. i have told you the Truth, it is your choice what you decide to do with it.



^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

And therin lies the problem.

God left us his word,not yours.

You do error in trying to give me credit for the TRUTHS that i teach, i have clearly said it is what God told me, therefore not my words but HIS.

If God told me, that one day the antichrist will say on TV "Where is your God now?" and i tell you what He told me, is it then my words or God's?

i tell you something that God told me, but you say and give me the credit by saying they are my words. You do error, they are not mine, but His that gave them to me. He deserves the credit for the TRUTHS that i teach,

A king tells the messenger "Go tell the village next to us, that if they do not move out of the village i will send dragons to destroy them" The messenger goes and tells that village what the King told him to say. The villagers reply "We do not believe your words" The messenger then responds "They are not my words, but is what the King told me to tell you". The villagers still did not believe the words of the messenger. The next day the village was destroyed and everyone died.

What i teach is not my words, but the Words of Him who told me these things. What is it to the messenger if the village did not believe? The messenger knew the words was from the King. And the messenger pleased the King, by doing what he was instructed to do. Not the messengers fault if the people of the village did not believe him.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

According to d dave,he is infallable.

You do error, i have never said that i am infallable, who is whispering to you that i have said such a thing? Or can you now show where i have said such a thing?

He will tell you,"believe me or not,"

Again, you are in error, i plainly and clearly teach to believe Him who told me these things.

Most here just go with what they interpret from the word.

Therein lies the problem. Scriptures teach that interpretation belong to God NOT to men.

The word becomes the center of the debate.

Anyone that says "God said,told me showed me",stops any question that they are unbiblical.

,,,at least in their mind it does.

And if God actually did speak to them, then what?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Wow,none of this is true.

pretrib is defendable BECAUSE OF SCRIPTURE.

There is no mid trib rapture.

The AC is revealed at the beginning of the tribulation period.
He rounds up and executes all refusing the mark. That happens at the start of the GT.
So there is nobody mid trib to rapture.

You miss something fundamental.
Harvest is 4 parts.. in leviticus,and elsewhere.

Firstfruits.
Main
corneres
gleaners.

We see this in the gatherings to heaven.

Firstfruits = Jesus and the patriarchs
main= 1 thes 4
Corners and gleaners = rev 14.

Those are the gatherings to heaven,for the marriage supper.

Ruth is the gentile bride.

Read Ruth,get that dynamic down,as well as the AC killing all left behind Christians in the GT.

Then get back to me.

i believe what God told me.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Oh,and still waiting for one postrib rapture verse.
.....or mid trib rapture.

Seven Seal are opened, then Seven Trumpets are blown, then Seven Vials are poured out.
{ ... .. .. . .. . . . . .. . . . . .. .Tribulation Period .. . . . . . .. .. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . .}

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Now description of the 7th Trumpet (the last one in that series) sounding in Revelation.

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, (last trumpet sounding) when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (Jesus Starts His reign) 16: .. . . . . . . . .17. . . . . . . . . . . 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, (dead raised) and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

All would agree that the Tribulation Period is going to be real bad.

When the Disciples asked Jesus about the what shall take place in the last days and the end of the world, pay attention what Jesus responded.

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The rest of the chapter, Jesus answers them the questions that they asked Him.

Pay attention here:

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Did you notice that? The GREAT Tribulation period was shortened for what reason? Because the elect were still THERE, It was for the elects sake that God shortened that GREAT Tribulation event, why? Because they were NOT raptured up yet, they are still here on Earth with humans, suffering great tribulation that has not ever been nor ever will be again. The Elect have NOT been taken up yet.

lets continue with the description of the sign of His coming and the end of the world.

Mat 24:29 Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

What tribulations? What Tribulations are they referring to in verse 29? Didn't verses 4 through 28 just got done describing a Great Tribulation such as has never been before, NOR EVER WILL BE AGAIN. Scriptures teach AFTER this tribulation is when Christ will come and take the CHURCH

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days (that the previous verses just described) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet,(The last Trumpet sounding) and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (RAPTURE)

WHEN does Jesus show up and SAVE His Church, at the 7th Trumpet. AFTER the Great Tribulation Period described in verses 4-28. So simple to understand that even children could understand these Scriptures.

And AFTER the 7th Trumpet sounding is when the 7 vials are poured out upon the Earth. So then the Tribulation Period continues even after Christ sets up His kingdom on Earth and is King of all kings of the Earth.

So then the 7 year Tribulation Period consists of Seals, consists of 7 Trumpet, consists of 7 vials. Christ Returns at the 7th Trumpet sounding, then the last 7 vials are poured out.

SCRIPTURES teaches plainly Mid-Trib.

All this only confirms what God has told me will happen in the future.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[DiscipleDave]

.........been waiting since 1977

Patience.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Jesus said ,in God's word, That there are 2 examples of deliverance before tribulation/judgement.

Lot,and Noah.

neither are post judgement deliverances.
NEITHER.
Neither are delivered "mid trib"

Really? For Noah and his family it was not tribulations to lose everyone that they knew, all their friends died by drowning? What? Not tribulations for Noah and his family to see and hear people drowning? What about even having the knowledge that millions of people are being killed, Not going through tribulations? What about living in an ark with all the animals, the smell alone i would think is tribulations. What about living in that boat stuffed full of animals for 40 days while it was a continuous nonstop Raining. What that is not tribulations that they endured. What about after it stopped raining, and how long they floated with no land in sight whatsoever? It was ONLY when they reached land that they were actually delivered from the Flood. What did they not have tribulations after they landed on dry land? Sure they did, they were the only people on the whole Earth, they had to now survive, rebuild, repopulate the whole Earth.

So it seems to me, the midtrib fits far better then pretrib. You seem to think they were delivered when they went up into the boat. That is NOT the case. They were only delivered when the landed on dry land.

BOTH ARE PRETRIB DYNAMICS.

pretrib will see pretrib Dynamics. Midtrib will see midtrib dynamics. Posttrib will see posttrib dynamics. That is only common sense.

Now thats "just " Jesus' words. I know postribs and midtribs will tell us different.

Sorry, have no clue what you are trying to say here.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Ok,we all believe Jesus returns post trib. we all believe that.

Jesus does not come post-trib. Jesus comes at the 7th Trumpet sounding, And since there are 7 seals, 7 trumpets, and 7 vials. that means Jesus Returns Mid-trib.

The RAPTURE however,is pretrib.

The Rapture happens when Jesus gets here. That is at the 7th Trumpet sounding.

The PURPOSE of the rapture is the key to understanding.

The chrch is only INDIRECTLY involved.

The sole purpose of the Rapture is to gather up the Church to be with Jesus forever. The Church is DIRECTLY involved.

The reason you see saints IN THE GT,is because they are those left behind.

Saints are not left behind. Saints are taken up with Jesus when He gets here.

Mat 25;
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

You do error in applying this parable to the actual events of the Christ Returning. This made up parable is to teach us to be ready and prepared for the Rapture. Not actual events of the Rapture itself.

Hello,yes,the rapture is in fact pretrib.

Scriptures teach that the Rapture happens at the 7th Trumpet sounding. Are you saying that the 7 seals, and the 6 Trumpet sounding before that is NOT Tribulations?

The 7 Trumpets and the 7 Vials are most assuredly part of the Tribulation Period.
In order to believe pretrib, a person must believe that Christ comes back for the Church before the first Trumpet is even sounded, that is PRIOR to the Tribulation Period. Do you see how that is illogical, not to mention, not even Scriptural.

Here is a Scriptural TRUTH. Christ Returns at the 7th Trumpet sounding. So then the question is is the 7th Trumpet sounding the beginning of the Tribulation period, middle of the Tribulation Period, or at the end of the Tribulation Period?

Jesus Christ is coming for the Church at the 7th TRUMPET sounding the last Trumpet sounding. Pretrib is NOT correct, the only time Pretrib would be Scripturally correct is if the 7th Trumpet sounding is what actually starts the 7 year Tribulation Period. That is the ONLY time that pretrib belief would be correct. But since we know that the seals and the first 6 trumpets are a part of the Tribulation Period, and we also know that the 7 vials/bowels are also a part of the 7 year Tribulation Period, the only thing that fits is Mid-trib.

Which looking on that, it makes since that most would believe pretrib, something that is contrary to the TRUTH. is satan not the god of this world. Aren't Many called buy only a few will find the TRUTH of that narrow and diffiucult path that leads to life everlasting? Seem logical then that Most would believe a lie of pretrib, and several would believe a lie of posttrib, but only a few will believe the TRUTH of SCRIPTURES and know that Mid-trib is the TRUTH.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Amazing how 2 posters on this site ignore the 4 Biblical versions of eschatology that theologians for centuries have worked with and can't find a way to remove any of them. These posters don't bother to look at them and refute them but just make pronouncements from their own reading of the Bible. They are right and the world of theologians is wrong. Pure egotistical thinking.

The 4 Biblical versions of eschatology, Did those come from the mind of men or did God tell them those versions, answer?

So you are upset that i do not read, study the 4 versions of eschatology, which come from men.

Tell me. If God told you what is going to happen in 2019, would you have a need to study what other men say is going to happen in 2019? Seriously would you study them? You would not even consider reading what men tell you is going to happen in 2019 if God has already told you what is going to happen in 2019. For some reason your mind can't seem to understand this simple concept.

What i know is going to happen in the future, is what God told me. Why on Earth or in Heaven would i read what those four versions of eschatology say and teach, which come from the minds of men? Why would i even consider doing such a thing. i know what is going to happen in the future, and you are upset with me because i don't read what men say is going to happen in the future. Can't you see how illogical that is, can't you grasp and understand if a person does hear from God what is going to happen in the future, would not have a need to read what men say is going to happen in the future. Surely you can understand that. Sure you don't agree with me, but surely you can't blame me or be upset with me or mock me if i don't read or study the four versions of eschatology when i already know what is going to happen in the future. Why would i care to learn what men think is going to happen in the future, when God Himself has already told me?

That would be like unto, you having read and studied the 7 versions of the hypothesis of what causes a black hole. God tells me what causes a black hole. i now know 100% what causes a black hole, because God told me. But you are upset that i do not go off and read the 7 versions of what men say causes a black hole. and even mock me because i don't care to read about the 7 versions of what men say causes a black hole. i know what causes a black hole, because God told me what causes a black hole. If then i have the answer from God, why are you upset that i do not care to understand answers given by men?

i know what is going to happen in the future, because God told me. i have no need to learn, read, understand what men say is going to happen in the future, when God has already told me.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[Ahwatukee]

Jesus does not come post-trib. Jesus comes at the 7th Trumpet sounding

As I have stated so many times before, the "last trumpet" which is regarding the gathering of the church, both dead and living, has nothing to do with the 7th trumpet of the seven trumpet judgments.

The "last trumpet" is a blessing for the church, where the 7th trumpet of the trumpet judgments is apart of God's wrath. In addition, there is nothing in the context in or around the sounding of the 7th trumpet that would even suggest the gathering of the church.

The only reason that you and others have related these two trumpets has being synonymous, is because of the word "trumpet." Yet, there are many different types of trumpets with different purposes. To make these two trumpets the same is just an exegetical error on your part.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Greetings Roadkill,



First of all, you are correct in that the Second Coming and gathering of the church as being two separate events. But regarding what you said "Jesus' second coming will come in the twinkling of an eye. The Rapture is not so," this is false. In this case you have the two events backwards, for there is a multitude of signs leading up to Christ's second coming, namely the antichrist establishing that seven year covenant which initiates the seven years, the setting up of the abomination which marks the middle of the seven years, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which are the wrath of God and which will be taking place during that seven year period, with Christ returning shortly after the 7th bowl has been poured out. So No! The second coming of Christ will not be like a thief in the night. It is the gathering of the church that will be like a thief in the night, for that event has no signs and can take place at any moment.

Also, you have the gathering of the church taking place over a 3 day period, when there is absolutely zero scripture to support this. In fact, the resurrection of the dead and the changing of the living will take place in close proximity to each other. The only reason that the living are changed, is because they will still be alive when the Lord comes to gather the church. For example, scripture states that when the dead resurrect they will be caught up in the air, then immediately after that we who are still alive and remain will be changed and caught up with them. According to you, those who will have been resurrected will be gathered and waiting in the air for three days for the living believers. The whole event of the dead rising and the living being changed and caught up will take place in a Nano second. The people of the earth will realize something has happened because of the great number of people missing.



Where in the world did you get the above information from? It surely doesn't come from the word of God.



Where is it stated in scripture that it is only those who are 25 years and younger who will be transfigured? Don't bother, because there is no such scripture! What about those who are 26 and older who are in Christ and are still alive at that time and who will have also been looking the blessed hope? I submit to you that every person in Christ who is alive at the time of the resurrection, regardless of age, will be changed and caught up.



Scripture would disagree with you regarding your claim that no children will be conceived during the tribulation period and that because the following scripture is regarding Israel's fleeing into the desert as a result of the abomination being set up, which initiates the great tribulation and demonstrating that there will be women who are pregnant and those who are nursing children.

"How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened



There is no way to know when Jesus will return to the earth to gather His church. You are correct in that the events of Rev.12 with the Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven and the woman fleeing out into that place prepared for her by God. But the only way to know when the middle of the seven years is, is to know when that seven years begins. And the only way to know that, is when that antichrist is revealed and establishes that seven year agreement with Israel. Otherwise, there is no way to know when the middle of the seven years will take place, until the seven years is initiated.

Most everything that you have claimed above is pure conjecture, because there is no scripture for it and neither did you provide any to back up your claim.

i agree with you ahwatukee.

A message to all. If what you believe or teach contradicts even one verse in Scriptures then what you believe is wrong.

If a voice starts talking to you, saying it is God and they say something that is contrary to even one verse in Scriptures that voice is from the devil and not from God.

If any person teaches anything that is CONTRARY to one verse in Scriptures, that teaching is FALSE.

If you have a vision or a dream, which is contrary to any verse in Scriptures that dream and/or vision is from satan and not from God.

If you hear a voice, see a vision, speak with an angel, or have a dream. And what you hear or what you see does not contradict any verse in Scriptures, and it lines up with Scriptures, just Might be actually from God. A person would be unwise to not question any of these things when these things happen to them. If any of these things come from satan, they will be most certainly contrary to Scriptures, or they will be meant to cause confusion, which is also from satan.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[Deade]

It is only wise to do so. Many false prophets satan has raised up, to cause this generation not to believe the real ones when they show up.

See post above.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Well DiscipleDave,

Time will tell us if that spirit that talked to you was God or Satan pretending to be an angel of light: 2 Corinthians 11:14: “And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.” I won't argue that God talks to people, so do demons. Have you learned to try the spirits?

Yours,

Deade