Not By Works

[BillG]

I'm saying if you are still living in your old life God hasn't started that work in you yet.

That's what the Bible says. If you are still living in sin there is no work of God in you to rescue you from his wrath when Jesus comes back. And you don't fix that by now trying to do good work, you fall on God's mercy and you get born again. That's how you fix it. That's hardly a works gospel.

How do you equate living in sin?

Let's say we have a believer with an anger problem.
The acknowledge that they have an anger problem.
The bring it before God.
They hate it but still struggle with it.
The keep bringing it back to God.

Anger starts to subside, or it ceases as a result of prayer (sometimes it happens, like my gambling addiction).

So if on the day Jesus returns the said person is having an outburst of anger then what?

 

[VCO]

I finally had my Laptop quit working. OHH, I do not like Windows 10, and in my opinion, it is another VISTA.

 

[Ralph-]

I get pride and save face and all that. But really?? You still double down on your preaching that the Pharisees didn't create their own doctrines from the commandments of men?

Why would you do this?

Traits identify.

 

[VCO]

At first, I thought you said garbage can. Wasn't it Bruce who used to post a heap of garbage in response to some people's posts? Today would be his re-feed day In honour of him, the smorgasbord is now open
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^^^ Try some lasagna! It is always fresh, and never moldy like Phil's was
Make sure to leave room for dessert

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OH, LOOK AT ALL THE FOOD THAT I CANNOT EAT. Oh my, it looks so good. I am a diabetic, AND IT ALL LOOKS SO GOOD!

 

[VCO]

I finally had my Laptop quit working. OHH, I do not like Windows 10, and in my opinion, it is another VISTA.

My old Laptop was a Windows 7, and I am struggling to find everything on this new Windows 10 laptop. They do not understand that IF IT WORKS, DO NOT FIX IT.

 

[kitty]

And somehow you can't see he plainly said sinning and living in sin are the same thing. Traits identify.

He can't seem to understand that if he wants to defend living in sin as the same thing as sinning, and vice versa, he is condemning himself as an unbeliever and will not inherit the kingdom when Jesus returns. And, furthermore, if he wants to say they are the same but because of grace he WILL inherit the kingdom despite his living in sin then he is making grace out to be a license to live in sin like an unbeliever but still be saved.

i think all believers sin but when they feel bad about it confess it and turn away they are forgiven they are after all living with an adamic nature didnt paul feel the warring of the spirit and the flesh when he said oh wretched man thet i am?

 

[stonesoffire]

I'm saying if you are still living in your old life God hasn't started that work in you yet.

That's what the Bible says. If you are still living in sin there is no work of God in you to rescue you from his wrath when Jesus comes back. And you don't fix that by now trying to do good work, you fall on God's mercy and you get born again. That's how you fix it. That's hardly a works gospel.

We will fall short of His glory until He comes Ralph. In this you would condemn even yourself to hell.

In..en- a fixed position. The new creation man. It literally means that God has wiped out this realm, and is creating His children to inhabit the new. And while we are learning of Him, and His ways, He is building housing for each of us to live in.

A Re-creation of Sons and His new world. All through faith in the blood sacrifice and our spiritual circumcision of our "flesh". And then raised in His likeness.

Walk in forgiveness to all. Let the past go.

 

[Ralph-]

How do you equate living in sin?

Let's say we have a believer with an anger problem.
The acknowledge that they have an anger problem.
The bring it before God.
They hate it but still struggle with it.
The keep bringing it back to God.

Anger starts to subside, or it ceases as a result of prayer (sometimes it happens, like my gambling addiction).

So if on the day Jesus returns the said person is having an outburst of anger then what?

You are describing progress, not living in sin like one did before being saved.

According to stats, many men on this forum are probably viewing porn including pastors and leaders so let's use that as a realistic example. Are you viewing it just like you (anybody) did before the day you say you got saved and you just click into it as just part of what you do in life? Or is there more than just a fight going on in the Spirit and you have this pattern of three steps forward two steps back in your spiritual battle against it?

You'll still get to where you're going in that kind of struggle. Try it. Walk to the kitchen from your living room taking 3 steps forward and 2 steps back. Then try it taking no steps at all. The 1st way shows you are in progress toward the goal. The 2nd way shows you aren't even in the running. Now ask yourself, people, which one am I? The point is, am I progressing in my spiritual battle with sin, or am I content in my old life and making no progress at all because salvation is not by works? Examine yourself. Take it to Jesus if you don't like what you see. That's what he's there for. And leave the messenger alone. Not <you> Bill, I'm talking to 'you' collectively.

 

[stonesoffire]

My old Laptop was a Windows 7, and I am struggling to find everything on this new Windows 10 laptop. They do not understand that IF IT WORKS, DO NOT FIX IT.

I remember pouring my woes out to you long ago about Windows 10. Plus a refurbished computer that was advertised as new.

You should hear hear my husband. His voice raises strong and it's not a prophetic word. Haha.

I sympathize with you!

 

[Ralph-]

i think all believers sin but when they feel bad about it confess it and turn away they are forgiven they are after all living with an adamic nature didnt paul feel the warring of the spirit and the flesh when he said oh wretched man thet i am?

The point to remember here is if there is no war going on, you are not born again. A progressive war shows you are saved and will inherit the kingdom when Jesus comes back. No progress, no war, and freely giving aid and comfort to the enemy shows you still belong to the enemy and you will not inherit the kingdom when Jesus comes back. That is called living in sin. That's what unbelievers do. That's why works are required when Jesus comes back or else you show you do not belong to Him. You don't work to get into Jesus, but you have to have works when he comes back or else you show you are not in Jesus.

 

[kitty]

i think all believers sin but when they feel bad about it confess it and turn away they are forgiven they are after all living with an adamic nature didnt paul feel the warring of the spirit and the flesh when he said oh wretched man thet i am?

i have put this in the wrong place havent i ? lol

 

[Ralph-]

As long as people fail to realise a child of God can not live in sin because they have been born of God.

BINGO! Now explain it to budman. People who are still living in sin are not children of God. But he is claiming all of us are living in sin because all of us sin.

 

[Ralph-]

i have put this in the wrong place havent i ? lol

I don't think so. Why do you think so?

 

[kitty]

The point to remember here is if there is no war going on, you are not born again. A progressive war shows you are saved and will inherit the kingdom when Jesus comes back. No progress, no war, and freely giving aid and comfort to the enemy shows you still belong to the enemy and you will not inherit the kingdom when Jesus comes back. That is called living in sin. That's what unbelievers do. That's why works are required when Jesus comes back or else you show you do not belong to Him. You don't work to get into Jesus, but you have to have works when he comes back or else you show you are not in Jesus.

jesus knows who belongs to him even though it might not be evident to us ,also arent we told to love our enemies . i agree with the point that if there is no warring between the spirit and the flesh in a person then that person is probably not christs

 

[stonesoffire]

The point to remember here is if there is no war going on, you are not born again. A progressive war shows you are saved and will inherit the kingdom when Jesus comes back. No progress, no war, and freely giving aid and comfort to the enemy shows you still belong to the enemy and you will not inherit the kingdom when Jesus comes back. That is called living in sin. That's what unbelievers do. That's why works are required when Jesus comes back or else you show you do not belong to Him. You don't work to get into Jesus, but you have to have works when he comes back or else you show you are not in Jesus.

The war ends for your personal battle when you realize that Victory is yours through His work. Dead. You are dead to what you were. If you are born from above. Above! Out of His Victory, through His Spirit comes works. Then truth of unity with Him in His resurrection life, begin to walk. Being baptized in His Spirit, we exercise the gifts given. And we turn our attention to others, and begin to war for them.

One with Jesus, walking as He walks, stumbling occasionally but He picks us up, brushes us off, and we continue on. Glory to glory.

Watchman Nee wrote the book, Sit, walk, stand. The title itself struck truth to me for its revealed in the scripture.

This is true of every believer who has received salvation by fairh in the blood sacrifice of Jesus. Yet, not all attain to the finish of the race for many different reasons. But, all running safe, saved partipants in the race.

 

[kitty]

jesus knows who belongs to him even though it might not be evident to us ,also arent we told to love our enemies . i agree with the point that if there is no warring between the spirit and the flesh in a person then that person is probably not christs

also the kingdom is already here

 

[Ralph-]

all who have believed HAVE ALREADY DONE THE WORK OF THE HEAVENLY FATHER....and BELIEVERS will have every sort of work...from good and faithful to worthless and not so good

Here you are talking out the other side of your mouth now. Did you forget all the times you defended the person who has no works of precious metal and stone but is saved anyway, as by fire?

 

[Locutus]

Why does this remind me of Ralph?

 

[kitty]

The war ends for your personal battle when you realize that Victory is yours through His work. Dead. You are dead to what you were. If you are born from above. Above! Out of His Victory, through His Spirit comes works. Then truth of unity with Him in His resurrection life, begin to walk. Being baptized in His Spirit, we exercise the gifts given. And we turn our attention to others, and begin to war for them.

One with Jesus, walking as He walks, stumbling occasionally but He picks us up, brushes us off, and we continue on. Glory to glory.

Watchman Nee wrote the book, Sit, walk, stand. The title itself struck truth to me for its revealed in the scripture.

This is true of every believer who has received salvation by fairh in the blood sacrifice of Jesus. Yet, not all attain to the finish of the race for many different reasons. But, all running safe, saved partipants in the race.

i agree the war is over in that we have salvation but the point being made was that a christian is still capable of doing wrong and grieving the holy spirit

 

[Ralph-]

also the kingdom is already here

We will enter a literal physical kingdom when Jesus returns IF we belong to him as evidenced by our lives. If we lived lawless disobedient lives we will not enter the kingdom but will instead go to the left with the other goats and into the furnace. Our lives will be what testifies for or against us when we all stand before Jesus at His return. No words of 'I did this', or 'I believed this' will be heard at that time. Only the testimony of our lives will speak on our behalf at that time. And it is only Jesus himself who will be doing the praising of people's lives at that time.

If this is convicting to anybody, the answer is not to try to do more works. The answer is take it to Jesus, ask for His mercy, and then do works in the power of his forgiveness. That's how you get ready for his return. That's not a works gospel.