Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
Chapter 7 is him not walking in the Spirit. Then he explains in chapter 8 how he is rescued from that through walking in the Holy Spirit, and as a result does not come under the condemnation of the law-Romans 8:4.
Ridiculous. For one thing, the law is completely done away with. It was nailed to the cross and has no hold over us. The law drives one to the cross and no further - end of story. You are trying to spiritualize Paul's confession as a means to explain away the fact he himself said he is (not was) the chief of sinners, and does (not did) the evil he doesn't wish to do. You gloss over the two natures in an effort to push your works-based salvation heresy.

Then you are condemning yourself as an unbeliever because I am sure you are not sinless.
You failed yet again to explain away 1 John 3:9. It states quite clearly one born of God cannot sin. Yet you still sin - as you've admitted. So, welcome to to the "unbeliever" club, Ralph.

John said the person who continues to sin is not born again (so much for your salvation, according to what you yourself are trying to push here). Paul says it is the person living in sin that is not saved. Together we know then that 'continuing to sin' means 'living in sin'.
Yet again, according to the bible a single sin accountable to us will damn us. You yourself continue to sin, you sin every single day, Ralph.

Every single day.

Thus, you are also "living in sin".

But hey, do a few more works and maybe God will gloss over them all for you.

I'm not doomed because my sins are covered by the blood of Christ. I know that because I'm not living in my old life anymore.
That's where you are terribly wrong. An atheist can do the same works you do, and even more. The way a Christian knows they are saved is if they have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ alone for their redemption - that's all the "work" God requires. They are saved from that moment onward - period. No matter what. It can never be undone. The only thing works accomplish here on earth, is to justify us before MEN - NOT God. They are a means to store up treasure in heaven, and are the basis for rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

Once again, God does not remove our free will from us when we become saved. We can still say no to God and stubbornly rebel. We open ourselves to God's chastisement, however.

What we're seeing here is you are arguing that grace is a license to sin.
That is a straight up LIE. Grace is never a license to sin, and I have never stated as such. You owe me an apology - unless you have no problem with lying.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
Ridiculous. For one thing, the law is completely done away with. It was nailed to the cross and has no hold over us. The law drives one to the cross and no further - end of story. You are trying to spiritualize Paul's confession as a means to explain away the fact he himself said he is (not was) the chief of sinners, and does (not did) the evil he doesn't wish to do. You gloss over the two natures in an effort to push your works-based salvation heresy.



You failed yet again to explain away 1 John 3:9. It states quite clearly one born of God cannot sin. Yet you still sin - as you've admitted. So, welcome to to the "unbeliever" club, Ralph.



Yet again, according to the bible a single sin accountable to us will damn us. You yourself continue to sin, you sin every single day, Ralph.

Every single day.

Thus, you are also "living in sin".

But hey, do a few more works and maybe God will gloss over them all for you.



That's where you are terribly wrong. An atheist can do the same works you do, and even more. The way a Christian knows they are saved is if they have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ alone for their redemption - that's all the "work" God requires. They are saved from that moment onward - period. No matter what. It can never be undone. The only thing works accomplish here on earth, is to justify us before MEN - NOT God. They are a means to store up treasure in heaven, and are the basis for rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

Once again, God does not remove our free will from us when we become saved. We can still say no to God and stubbornly rebel. We open ourselves to God's chastisement, however.



That is a straight up LIE. Grace is never a license to sin, and I have never stated as such. You owe me an apology - unless you have no problem with lying.
Incorrect.

Mathew 5:17 to 20 NIV

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
 
Last edited:

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
Incorrect.

Mathew 5:17 to 20 NIV

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 24:44-46, “And He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all have to be fulfilled that were written in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me. Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, “Thus it has been written, and so it was necessary for the Messiah to suffer and to rise again from the dead the third day.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 45:21-22, “Declare and bring near, let them even take counsel together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has declared it from that time? Is it not I, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]? And there is no mighty one besides Me, a righteous Power and Savior, there is none besides Me. Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am Strength, and there is none else.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 46:10, “Declaring the end from the beginning, and from of old that which has not yet been done, saying, ‘My counsel does stand, and all My delight I do.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]There are 2 "it is done" statements...

Fulfilled already
John 19:30, “So when
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]took the sour wine He said, “It is done!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.”

Fulfilled already- To be fulfilled in the future

1. Passover/First-fruits – Yahshua's Sacrifice(Passover), burial and resurrection (First Fruits – presenting Himself to YHWH)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread – Removal of sin by Yahshua's perfect work as the Passover Sacrifice
3. Feast of Weeks – The blessing Holy Spirit of YHWH, coming into our lives stronger than ever

4. Feast of Trumpets – Yahshua's return and gathering of the Saints
5. Day of Atonement – Yahshua leads the army of YHWH to destroy evil rulers of this world and satan is chained for 1,000 years
6. Feast of Tabernacles – Yahshua dwells on earth for 1,000 years teaching truth and righteousness
7. The Last Great Day – satan is loosed and swiftly destroyed, the Kingdom of YHWH reigns forever


To be fulfilled in the future
Revelation 21:4-8, “And Yah shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying. And there shall be no more pain, for the former matters have passed away. And He who was sitting on the throne said, “See, I make all matters new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and trustworthy. And He said to me, “It is done! I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End. To the one who thirsts I shall give of the fountain of the water of life without payment. The one who overcomes shall inherit all this, and I shall be his Strength and he shall be My son. But as for the cowardly, and untrustworthy, and abominable, and murderers, and those who whore, and drug sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the false, their part is in the lake which burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.”
[/FONT]




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 9:26-28, “For if so, He would have had to suffer often, since the foundation of the world. But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the offering of Himself. 27, "And as it awaits men to die once, and after this the judgment, so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to those waiting for Him, unto deliverance.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 19:11-16, “And I saw the heaven opened, and there was a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Trustworthy and True, and in righteousness He judges and fights. And His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns, having a Name that had been written, which no one had perceived except Himself – and having been dressed in a robe dipped in blood (Isaiah 63:2) and His Name is called: The Word of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And the armies in the heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations. And He shall shepherd them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of the Almighty Strength. And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written: SOVEREIGN OF SOVEREIGNS AND MASTER OF MASTERS.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 2:1-12, "2:1, "Why do the nations rage, And the peoples meditate emptiness? The sovereigns of the earth take their stand, And the rulers take counsel together, Against [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and against His Messiah, and say, Let us tear apart Their bonds, And throw away Their ropes from us.”"2:4, " He who is sitting in the heavens laughs, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]mocks at them. Then He speaks to them in His wrath, And troubles them in His rage, saying,"2:6, "“ But I, I have set My Sovereign on Tsiyon, My set-apart mountain. I inscribe for a law: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have brought You forth. Ask of Me, and I make the nations Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth Your possession. Break them with a rod of iron, Dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel. And now, be wise, O sovereigns; Be instructed, you rulers of the earth. Serve [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]with fear, And rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son lest He be enraged, And you perish in the way, For soon His wrath is to be kindled. Blessed are all those taking refuge in Him.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniel 7:21-22, “I was looking, and this horn was fighting against the set-apart ones, and was prevailing against them, until the Ancient of Days came, and right-ruling was given to the set-apart ones of the Most High, and the time came and the set-apart ones took possession of the reign.”

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."
[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail." [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…" [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 21:1-2, “And I saw a renewed heaven and a renewed earth, for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. And I, Yoḥanan, saw the set-apart city, renewed Yerushalayim, coming down out of the heaven from Yah, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ezekiel 48:35, “All around: eighteen thousand cubits. And the name of the city from that day is: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is there!”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 5:17-19, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one yod or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done. Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Ridiculous. For one thing, the law is completely done away with. It was nailed to the cross and has no hold over us. The law drives one to the cross and no further - end of story. You are trying to spiritualize Paul's confession as a means to explain away the fact he himself said he is (not was) the chief of sinners, and does (not did) the evil he doesn't wish to do. You gloss over the two natures in an effort to push your works-based salvation heresy.



You failed yet again to explain away 1 John 3:9. It states quite clearly one born of God cannot sin. Yet you still sin - as you've admitted. So, welcome to to the "unbeliever" club, Ralph.



Yet again, according to the bible a single sin accountable to us will damn us. You yourself continue to sin, you sin every single day, Ralph.

Every single day.

Thus, you are also "living in sin".

But hey, do a few more works and maybe God will gloss over them all for you.



That's where you are terribly wrong. An atheist can do the same works you do, and even more. The way a Christian knows they are saved is if they have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ alone for their redemption - that's all the "work" God requires. They are saved from that moment onward - period. No matter what. It can never be undone. The only thing works accomplish here on earth, is to justify us before MEN - NOT God. They are a means to store up treasure in heaven, and are the basis for rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

Once again, God does not remove our free will from us when we become saved. We can still say no to God and stubbornly rebel. We open ourselves to God's chastisement, however.



That is a straight up LIE. Grace is never a license to sin, and I have never stated as such. You owe me an apology - unless you have no problem with lying.
I didn't expect you to get it.

This doctrine you're pushing is the undoing of the church in these end times. We will not recover from this.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Scripture is the reason.
Hope in you that can not be seen in how you live shows you do not possess the hope you say you do. If Lucy was being serious when she said she has no changed life then she is not saved. I'm not going to be PC to her and lead her into deception about the truth about herself. She can only be saved if someone tells her the truth, though it seems many think they are doing Christ a service by comforting her in her unsaved status, that is if what she said is really true and she's not just trolling this thread.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
Luke 24:44-46, “And He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all have to be fulfilled that were written in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me. Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, “Thus it has been written, and so it was necessary for the Messiah to suffer and to rise again from the dead the third day.”


Isaiah 45:21-22, “Declare and bring near, let them even take counsel together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has declared it from that time? Is it not I, יהוה? And there is no mighty one besides Me, a righteous Power and Savior, there is none besides Me. Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am Strength, and there is none else.”


Isaiah 46:10, “Declaring the end from the beginning, and from of old that which has not yet been done, saying, ‘My counsel does stand, and all My delight I do.”


There are 2 "it is done" statements...

Fulfilled already
John 19:30, “So when
יהושע took the sour wine He said, “It is done!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.”

Fulfilled already- To be fulfilled in the future

1. Passover/First-fruits – Yahshua's Sacrifice(Passover), burial and resurrection (First Fruits – presenting Himself to YHWH)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread – Removal of sin by Yahshua's perfect work as the Passover Sacrifice
3. Feast of Weeks – The blessing Holy Spirit of YHWH, coming into our lives stronger than ever

4. Feast of Trumpets – Yahshua's return and gathering of the Saints
5. Day of Atonement – Yahshua leads the army of YHWH to destroy evil rulers of this world and satan is chained for 1,000 years
6. Feast of Tabernacles – Yahshua dwells on earth for 1,000 years teaching truth and righteousness
7. The Last Great Day – satan is loosed and swiftly destroyed, the Kingdom of YHWH reigns forever


To be fulfilled in the future
Revelation 21:4-8, “And Yah shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying. And there shall be no more pain, for the former matters have passed away. And He who was sitting on the throne said, “See, I make all matters new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and trustworthy. And He said to me, “It is done! I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End. To the one who thirsts I shall give of the fountain of the water of life without payment. The one who overcomes shall inherit all this, and I shall be his Strength and he shall be My son. But as for the cowardly, and untrustworthy, and abominable, and murderers, and those who whore, and drug sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the false, their part is in the lake which burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.”





Hebrews 9:26-28, “For if so, He would have had to suffer often, since the foundation of the world. But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the offering of Himself. 27, "And as it awaits men to die once, and after this the judgment, so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to those waiting for Him, unto deliverance.”


Mat 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of atrumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.”

Revelation 19:11-16, “And I saw the heaven opened, and there was a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Trustworthy and True, and in righteousness He judges and fights. And His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns, having a Name that had been written, which no one had perceived except Himself – and having been dressed in a robe dipped in blood (Isaiah 63:2) and His Name is called: The Word of יהוה. And the armies in the heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations. And He shall shepherd them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of the Almighty Strength. And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written: SOVEREIGN OF SOVEREIGNS AND MASTER OF MASTERS.”


Psalms 2:1-12, "2:1, "Why do the nations rage, And the peoples meditate emptiness? The sovereigns of the earth take their stand, And the rulers take counsel together, Against יהוה and against His Messiah, and say, Let us tear apart Their bonds, And throw away Their ropes from us.”"2:4, " He who is sitting in the heavens laughs, יהוה mocks at them. Then He speaks to them in His wrath, And troubles them in His rage, saying,"2:6, "“ But I, I have set My Sovereign on Tsiyon, My set-apart mountain. I inscribe for a law: יהוה has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have brought You forth. Ask of Me, and I make the nations Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth Your possession. Break them with a rod of iron, Dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel. And now, be wise, O sovereigns; Be instructed, you rulers of the earth. Serve יהוה with fear, And rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son lest He be enraged, And you perish in the way, For soon His wrath is to be kindled. Blessed are all those taking refuge in Him.”


Daniel 7:21-22, “I was looking, and this horn was fighting against the set-apart ones, and was prevailing against them, until the Ancient of Days came, and right-ruling was given to the set-apart ones of the Most High, and the time came and the set-apart ones took possession of the reign.”

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."



Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."


Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”


Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."


Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"


Revelation 21:1-2, “And I saw a renewed heaven and a renewed earth, for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. And I, Yoḥanan, saw the set-apart city, renewed Yerushalayim, coming down out of the heaven from Yah, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”


Ezekiel 48:35, “All around: eighteen thousand cubits. And the name of the city from that day is: יהוה is there!”


Matthew 5:17-19, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one yod or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done. Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.”


Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."


Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”
​Try using the KISS method. (keep it simple stupid) to get your point across. This long list of scripture gets confusing to understand your point. Try stating your point then add a scripture or 2 to make your point. Keep It Simple Stupid!!! That is the best method. The longer the post the fewer people will read it.
 
Last edited:
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
I didn't expect you to get it.

This doctrine you're pushing is the undoing of the church in these end times. We will not recover from this.
i didnt expect an apology for your false accusation....

but what a surprise...

another false accusation

followed by a shame tactic based on a lie


Gods word will last forever

you dont decide what recovers from what

and i am looking forward to His return



Isaiah
40 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.

2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the Lord's hand double for all her sins.

3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:

5 And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:

7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the Lord bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.

8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

9 O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!

10 Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

11 He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Hope in you that can not be seen in how you live shows you do not possess the hope you say you do. If Lucy was being serious when she said she has no changed life then she is not saved. I'm not going to be PC to her and lead her into deception about the truth about herself. She can only be saved if someone tells her the truth, though it seems many think they are doing Christ a service by comforting her in her unsaved status, that is if what she said is really true and she's not just trolling this thread.
You took a phrase "hope that is seen" and twisted it to make an erroneous remark.

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Paul is speaking of Sonship being revealed to the world through the Sons.


Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
 
Last edited:

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
3,756
4,119
113
63
​Try using the KISS method. (keep it simple stupid) to get your point across. This long list of scripture gets confusing to understand your point. Try stating your point then add a scripture or 2 to make your point. Keep It Simple Stupid!!! That is the best method. The longer the post the fewer people will read it.
I have to agree on this, but not calling someone stupid in the KISS...But as for the longs post Hiz, they do seem to be getting longer and longer...I can no longer read your post, I might as well take to my bible and read that, although I do :)...But your long post are quiet off putting...

I know you have a passion to share, but maybe you could also consider that babes in Christ, and even those like myself just standing can not take these long post...I hope you do not mind me saying, but less is more...xox...
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
I didn't expect an apology for your false accusation....

but what a surprise...
Post the false accusation.
There has to be one before there can be an apology.


Have you noticed I'm not demanding apologies from you people? I'm reporting you so the abuse can stop but I am not demanding apologies-Matthew 5:39. Are you willing to follow the example and teaching of Christ?



another false accusation
What are you talking about?
He doesn't get what I was saying. How is that a false accusation?
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
You took a phrase "hope that is seen" and twisted it to make an erroneous remark.

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

This is amusing.
I'm saying, if the hope of salvation you have inside of you can not be seen in a change of life in you, then you do not have the hope you think you do. Understand?

If the consequences of you having hope in the unseen can not be seen in your life, then you do have the hope you think you do. Living in your old life means you are not born again.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
This is amusing.
I'm saying, if the hope of salvation you have inside of you can not be seen in a change of life in you, then you do not have the hope you think you do. Understand? [/FONT][/COLOR]
Oh, I understand fine. And we all agree that conversion results in a change of nature. We all have testified of this occurrence. So I don't know who you are supposedly teaching to?

And as I said, you took a phrase out of context. We still have this hope to come. This is not the foundation which you are trying to apply it to.

We are saved. We are being saved. We shall be saved. All finished according to Father as He looks at His Son. We in Him.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Ridiculous. For one thing, the law is completely done away with. It was nailed to the cross and has no hold over us. The law drives one to the cross and no further - end of story. You are trying to spiritualize Paul's confession as a means to explain away the fact he himself said he is (not was) the chief of sinners, and does (not did) the evil he doesn't wish to do. You gloss over the two natures in an effort to push your works-based salvation heresy.



You failed yet again to explain away 1 John 3:9. It states quite clearly one born of God cannot sin. Yet you still sin - as you've admitted. So, welcome to to the "unbeliever" club, Ralph.



Yet again, according to the bible a single sin accountable to us will damn us. You yourself continue to sin, you sin every single day, Ralph.

Every single day.

Thus, you are also "living in sin".

But hey, do a few more works and maybe God will gloss over them all for you.



That's where you are terribly wrong. An atheist can do the same works you do, and even more. The way a Christian knows they are saved is if they have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ alone for their redemption - that's all the "work" God requires. They are saved from that moment onward - period. No matter what. It can never be undone. The only thing works accomplish here on earth, is to justify us before MEN - NOT God. They are a means to store up treasure in heaven, and are the basis for rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

Once again, God does not remove our free will from us when we become saved. We can still say no to God and stubbornly rebel. We open ourselves to God's chastisement, however.



That is a straight up LIE. Grace is never a license to sin, and I have never stated as such. You owe me an apology - unless you have no problem with lying.
I'll give you one more chance so people can see what you and others are pushing here.

Since you are sure there is no distinction between the sinning that a believer does and the 'living in sin' that an unbeliever does, what makes it so Galatians 5:21, and other passages about not inheriting the kingdom, does not apply to you?

Think it through before you answer.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
And we all agree that conversion results in a change of nature. We all have testified of this occurrence.
.....but.

it's the 'but' that you all add that negates what you claim about all believers having a change of life.

If all of you really believed that you had to have a changed life or else you're not saved you would not be resisting what I'm saying. I'm just saying what your own once saved always saved doctrine says. It says you are either enduring in faithful works to the very end or you are not born again.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
3,687
113
I'll give you one more chance so people can see what you and others are pushing here.

Since you are sure there is no distinction between the sinning that a believer does and the 'living in sin' that an unbeliever does, what makes it so Galatians 5:21, and other passages about not inheriting the kingdom, does not apply to you?

Think it through before you answer.
"...they that do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God." (See Col. 3:24; Eph. 5:4; 1 Cor. 6:9) The context of these verses is the loss of rewards or inheritances for Christians at the Judgment Seat of Christ. I Cor. 3:13-16 "shall suffer loss."

Entrance into the kingdom and inheritance are two separate issue. Paul is speaking to already saved people. He is warning these believers that if they walk after the flesh, they will forfeit inheritance in the kingdom.

Do you know anyone who endured to the end without sinning? Other than our Lord...
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
"...they that do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God." (See Col. 3:24; Eph. 5:4; 1 Cor. 6:9) The context of these verses is the loss of rewards or inheritances for Christians at the Judgment Seat of Christ. I Cor. 3:13-16 "shall suffer loss."

Entrance into the kingdom and inheritance are two separate issue. Paul is speaking to already saved people. He is warning these believers that if they walk after the flesh, they will forfeit inheritance in the kingdom.

Do you know anyone who endured to the end without sinning? Other than our Lord...
If you're not in the kingdom you're outside of the kingdom and going to the furnace. This is spelled out in Revelation.

And it isn't just about sinning. It's about denying Christ altogether, which obviously will be shown in a 'life' of sin.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
I have to agree on this, but not calling someone stupid in the KISS...But as for the longs post Hiz, they do seem to be getting longer and longer...I can no longer read your post, I might as well take to my bible and read that, although I do :)...But your long post are quiet off putting...

I know you have a passion to share, but maybe you could also consider that babes in Christ, and even those like myself just standing can not take these long post...I hope you do not mind me saying, but less is more...xox...
KISS has been around for many years. I heard about it when I started work as a bench tech in 1969. The last word was added to make the initials memorable and actually has meaning. Making things more complicated than it needs to be costs time and money. That is the epitome of stupid. I lived that working on electronics products. Some engineers added unneeded bells and whistles costing time and money to manufacture and test the product.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Oh, I understand fine. And we all agree that conversion results in a change of nature. We all have testified of this occurrence. So I don't know who you are supposedly teaching to?

And as I said, you took a phrase out of context. We still have this hope to come. This is not the foundation which you are trying to apply it to.

We are saved. We are being saved. We shall be saved. All finished according to Father as He looks at His Son. We in Him.

Thats why I wonder why people keep allowing him to continue, by responding to him. It is PJ all over again.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Thats why I wonder why people keep allowing him to continue, by responding to him. It is PJ all over again.
I'll keep posting whether you respond to me or not. This is a public forum. When you say something I can quote to make a point I will do that.