Not By Works

NoNameMcgee · Jan 15, 2018

we ought to walk in the spirit
which includes
Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
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but thats not what justifies us

Galatians 2:16
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

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1ofthem · Jan 15, 2018

LOL...Studyman and Blue ladybug...

But I better get back to work now and quit goofing off or I'll never get this stuff done...

Goofing off is the whole reason I am behind on it anyhow....LOL...

eternally-gratefull · Jan 15, 2018

1ofthem said:

Your being legalistic saying you HAVE TO!!

Stop it

NoNameMcgee · Jan 15, 2018

Philippians 3

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

TruthTalk · Jan 15, 2018

Ralph- said:

2Corinthians3:13-16
13) We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away.
14) But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.
15) Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.
16) But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

When Jesus returns I will bow my knee to worship Him. But Ralph will say; Lord Lord, look and see, have I not done many works in your name; your ships compass is so far off "true north" you will never reach your destination, but I will pray for you.

BillG · Jan 15, 2018

justpassinthrough said:

The work required for salvation is

John 6:28-29

28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

Repent of the sin of unbelief

John 16:8-9
8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;

As a result we start to walk, grow and mature in obedience.

I have no issues of saying obedience and works should follow a genuine faith born of the Holy Spirit.

What bothers me is posts like yours above and those saying we should all be working and showing it has one major problem.

Quantifying the levels required.

This focus can cause and does cause others to focus obedience and works to the determent of focusing on the author and pefector of our faith.

You missed verse 17 in Hebrews

Romans 10:16-17
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

What is the Gospel?

dcontroversal · Jan 15, 2018

Budman said:

Yet again, you completely gloss over that Paul was speaking in the present tense. He said he is (not was) the chief of sinners, and that he doesn't do the good he wishes to do, but the evil he doesn't want to do, he instead does - not did.

Your twisted theology puts Paul right into hell.

You absolutely did not. That verse says nothing about "living in sin". It says specifically that one born of God DOES NOT sin, nor CAN HE.

You are adding to the word of God in able to ram your works based salvation into the gospel.

Grace is unmerited - period. ALL sins, past, present, and future, were paid for through the blood of Jesus. All believers will NEVER have a single sin credited to them. Whether we commit one sin a day, or a hundred. Chastisement and a loss of rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ (something you know little about) is what awaits a child who lives in disobedience. A Christian can never lose their salvation based on their performance because our salvation isn't based on us AT ALL. It is based on the finished work of Jesus.

The entire salvation issue was settled at the cross.

If you want your merit based system Ralph, you are doomed if you commit a single sin.

I know.....sickening how the workers for, sinless perfectionists, and law keepers will deny verb tense and EMBELLISH the word even if but in a subtle way....makes me think of the garden and the addition of one word to totally change the meaning..

dcontroversal · Jan 15, 2018

Studyman said:

Get over yourself...

a. The words of Paul were inspired by Jesus
b. The words of Paul carry the same weight and value as the words of Jesus unless noted by Paul as his own
c. Paul said concerning the righteousness in the law he was BLAMELESS

It is you that reject the words of Paul, the inspired words of Paul to push your working for law abiding false dogma

stonesoffire · Jan 15, 2018

I do see two laws that all must obey. (Believe)

Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all menevery where to repent:

Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

We won't repent unless we believe we must, and we have a need to do so. Belief and obeying is together.

Joh 13:34 A newcommandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Joh 13:35 By this shall all menknow that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

This has to do with forgiveness. There will be many opportunities to obey this commandment during our walk of life. God has forgiven us all. He says forgiveness is withheld if not obeyed. Believe this? Both connected.

This is the love of God, agape. This love is within us when we are born again, for the Word states love is shed abroad in our hearts by Holy Spirit.

In Holy Spirit we have all of God needed for Holiness, and Godliness. We rest in the nature of Gods Spirit given by Jesus Himself to His body. We believe, so we obey.

Without Jesus, His Spirit, we can do nothing. So any work of obedience we do comes from the source of power freely given to those who ask. (Believe, obey)

This forgiving love proves we are His. Is what scripture states. The new commandment of forgiveness as He forgives us shows who and what we dwell in.

Just as Bill posted using different scripture. They all point to the work of Jesus and His Holy Spirit who is using the body of Jesus on earth to show Gods great love for all men. This will draw men to Him. And love will be the result of being filled with Him, for He is love.

Seohce · Jan 15, 2018

dcontroversal said:

Faith “ALONE” saves.

“ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED”

ARE THESE IN THE SCRIPTURES OR ARE THESE MAN MADE DOCTRINES?

PLEASE SHOW ME SO I CAN BELIEVE IT TOO.

Romans 2:1-16 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism. All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

BillG · Jan 15, 2018

Seohce said:

Faith “ALONE” saves.

“ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED”

ARE THESE IN THE SCRIPTURES OR ARE THESE MAN MADE DOCTRINES?

PLEASE SHOW ME SO I CAN BELIEVE IT TOO.

Romans 2:1-16 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism. All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Evening Bro,

Faith alone does save.
We only have to look to the thief on the cross.
No works, a criminal hung beside Jesus.

Then we can look at the disciples who fled, they walked with Jesus for 3 years.
Saw all his miracles. Yet when he was on the cross they fled.

Genuine faith is just the starting point, that which saves.

The faith that restored the disciples, even though they lost it for a while.

Seohce · Jan 15, 2018

BillG said:

Faith alone justifies bro. Have a good night sleep.

Romans 9:15-33 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use? What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? As he says in Hosea: “I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people; and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,” and, “It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’” Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved. For the Lord will carry out his sentence on earth with speed and finality.” It is just as Isaiah said previously: “Unless the Lord Almighty had left us descendants, we would have become like Sodom, we would have been like Gomorrah.” Israel’s Unbelief What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the “stumbling stone.” As it is written: “See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”

Romans 11:28-32 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Endoscopy · Jan 15, 2018

John146 said:

When quoting scripture avoid the KJV. it was translated in 1611 and the English language has changed since then. For example kill in 1611 meant murder instead of the meaning it has now. You can kill someone in a car accident when there has been some sort of malfunction causing it. One time I was stopped at a stoplight and saw an accident about to happen. It was an off ramp that had a green light still when the light changed for the other direction. The line in the off ramp started going into the intersection while the intersecting lane was still coming through. That first car was blindsided since the overpass kept it from seeing the traffic didn't stop. If someone was killed it wouldn't be charged to anyone. Therefore not even vehicular homicide. But still someone would have been killed.

Endoscopy · Jan 15, 2018

Seohce said:

Faith “ALONE” saves.

“ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED”

ARE THESE IN THE SCRIPTURES OR ARE THESE MAN MADE DOCTRINES?

PLEASE SHOW ME SO I CAN BELIEVE IT TOO.

Romans 2:1-16 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism. All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Here is the Biblical reference to the doctrine.

John 10 NIV

25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

stonesoffire · Jan 15, 2018

stonesoffire said:

This scripture that Father won't forgive if we refuse to forgive has always bothered me. And I remembered the Word I read last night that He is our eternal High Priest and intercedes forever. I know that I know His blood speaks mercy, the better Voice. So I asked Him finally, why this was in the scripture.

He told me this has to do with being presented to the Father. That intercession is not just for this earth realm. He heals. We are totally His own and will make us ready to be with Father. So I needed a scripture to confirm this.

For we know that when we see Him, we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is.

Great peace have they which love thy law, and nothing shall offend them.

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. The law of liberty.

Endoscopy · Jan 15, 2018

stonesoffire said:

You seem to ignore what he accomplished on the cross. He paid the penalty for our sins. Thus if we accept him as savior we stand before the Father without sin.

The only unforgivable sin is rejecting Christ!!

joefizz · Jan 15, 2018

Endoscopy said:

Not exactly only through him our we without sin,like when we do something in the spirit,we in general still have sin,but yes he paid our penalty of sin"old sin" so that we would be no longer a "slave to sin" our ultimate freedom from sin is after judgement day for we will not be in the flesh having new bodies.

homwardbound · Jan 15, 2018

joefizz said:

Yes, for we in belief serve Father and Son with the inward man of our new heart given us as told God would do for us in Ezekiel 36:26

joefizz · Jan 15, 2018

Endoscopy said:

Avoid the King James version bible,hah how preposterous,it's ok to have a "preference" but like it or not God's word is "True",to be honest I find it ironic to say so considering how poorly the modern versions translate,the King James version has stood the test of time because it is inspired and accurate,true somethings are different today but words like "kill" haven't actually "changed" in meaning people over time just "change" what they don't like to "hear",like Ass it's always meant donkey but due to idiotic modern language people have perverted the word.
You have your outlook others have theirs.

homwardbound · Jan 15, 2018

Endoscopy said:

The only thing he never dies for was, is unbelief to him personally

Firstborn in unbelief, unaware of this, Father wais for each to be accountable to choose consciously to believe him or not
Thank You

Not By Works

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