Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

[Grandpa]

Im not sure you ven understand what you are saying. Judaisim is not based on the Scriptures but rather the Talmud 23vols of man made Law. Why would YHWH's Law being in effect make one have to follow the takanot and maasim of the pharisees?

This is exactly what Yahshua?Jesus spoke against:

Mark 7:1-9, “And the Pharisees and some of the scribes assembled to Him, having come from Yerushalayim. And seeing some of His taught ones eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. For the Pharisees, and all the Yehuḏim, do not eat unless they wash their hands thoroughly, holding fast the tradition of the elders, and coming from the market-place, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions which they have received and hold fast – the washing of cups and utensils and copper vessels and couches. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your taught ones not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? And He answering, said to them, “Well did Yeshayahu prophesy concerning you hypocrites, as it has been written, ‘This people respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrinethe commands of men.’ Forsaking the command of YHWH, you hold fast the tradition of men. And He said to them, “Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition."


New International Version - Mat 23:2-3, "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."


King James Bible - Mat 23:2-3, "Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."


Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah - Mat 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to their takanot (reforms) and their ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."


Takanot: rabbinical reforms or enactments that falsely change or add to YHWH's Law.


Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.


Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud.



Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."


Mat 15:3-9, “But He answering, said to them, “Why do you also transgress the command of YHWH because of your tradition? For YHWH has commanded, saying, ‘Respect your father and your mother,’ ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me has been dedicated, is certainly released from respecting his father or mother.’ So you have nullified the command of YHWH by your tradition."Hypocrites! Well did Isayah (29:13-14*) prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."

So if the Lord Jesus, in your own understanding speaks against Judaism, and Paul speaks against Judaism what exactly are you trying to promote?

 

[Studyman]

Galatians 5

2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

As a diligent law keeper you must be circumcised and since you are circumcised you are obligated to obey the whole Law. Do you obey all 613 commandments? Of course you don't! Why do you want us to keep the Law if you yourself don't do it?

I'm not telling people to do anything except stop telling lies about God's Word. There is not now, now has there even been 613 laws for God's People to follow. This is a lie "many" who come in Christ's name, tell over and over to justify their rebellion and rejection of God's Words. It isn't me who commands that people repent and turn to God, and follow His instructions.

As for circumcision, it is every bit required today as it was in old times.

Lev. 26:41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

Rom. 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Some Men believe they can twist one sentence from Paul and use it to destroy every other Word of God. "MANY" refuse to accept Paul's struggle with a Church that preached their own version of the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for remission of sins. The Whole law would include the service of a Levite Priest, which Jesus replaced. Preachers should know this but "Many" don't. They might ask themselves why this is instead of making foolish insults and outlandish claims against others.

 

[Grandpa]

I'm not telling people to do anything except stop telling lies about God's Word. There is not now, now has there even been 613 laws for God's People to follow. This is a lie "many" who come in Christ's name, tell over and over to justify their rebellion and rejection of God's Words. It isn't me who commands that people repent and turn to God, and follow His instructions.

As for circumcision, it is every bit required today as it was in old times.

Lev. 26:41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

Rom. 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Some Men believe they can twist one sentence from Paul and use it to destroy every other Word of God. "MANY" refuse to accept Paul's struggle with a Church that preached their own version of the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for remission of sins. The Whole law would include the service of a Levite Priest, which Jesus replaced. Preachers should know this but "Many" don't. They might ask themselves why this is instead of making foolish insults and outlandish claims against others.

The Lord Jesus replaced the levitical priesthood.

That is true. He made the physical following of the levitical priesthood void, it is abolished.

Just like He said He would in Matthew 5:17-18.

So you know that the Lord Jesus Christ HAS fulfilled the law. Because He never said He came to fulfill PART of the law.

2 Corinthians 3:7-9
[FONT=&quot]7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

The Lord Jesus Christ has fulfilled the physical following of the ministration of death written on stones. He has made it void, abolished.

But we have to follow His Ministration in order to understand.

2 Corinthians 3:14-16
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.[/FONT]

 

[Marcelo]

As for circumcision, it is every bit required today as it was in old times.
................................................................................................
Rom. 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

If your circumcision is only of the heart then you are like us -- you don't follow the law of Moses.

 

[Marcelo]

Did I not make myself clear ? was I not talking of the 10 Commandments being spiritual and eternal ?

then why are you talking about circumcision (of the flesh) ? I made no ref to it.

You're right -- you made no reference to circumcision. I don't even remember why I used GAL 5:2......,but my question is: Why do you separate the Ten Commandments from the other 603 laws? If Paul says we are not under the Law that means we are not under the Ten Commandments.

 

[joaniemarie]

Hi Marcelo., Just a second!

It seems like a lot of people by passed the video you posted.

 

[Marcelo]

Thanks, Joaniemarie, I'll repost it.

[video=youtube;0n-rzCTl5hQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n-rzCTl5hQ[/video]

 

[Nehemiah6]

Why do you separate the Ten Commandments from the other 603 laws? If Paul says we are not under the Law that means we are not under the Ten Commandments.

Here's why the Ten Commandments are to be separated from all the other commandments in the Torah:

1. They were unique in themselves -- written supernaturally with "the finger of God".

2. They are God's moral and spiritual laws -- which means that they are eternal.

3. They are summed up in the two greatest commandments by Christ -- thus applicable to all (including Christians)

4. They are the foundation of the Law of Christ (which is also called the Law of Love, the Royal Law, and the Law of Liberty)

5. Within the New Covenant they are written on the hearts and minds of believers by God to be lived out under the New Covenant.

6. They are applied in relationships with God and man by the power of indwelling the Holy Spirit within Christians.

 

[Marcelo]

Here's why the Ten Commandments are to be separated from all the other commandments in the Torah:

1. They were unique in themselves -- written supernaturally with "the finger of God".

2. They are God's moral and spiritual laws -- which means that they are eternal.

3. They are summed up in the two greatest commandments by Christ -- thus applicable to all (including Christians)

4. They are the foundation of the Law of Christ (which is also called the Law of Love, the Royal Law, and the Law of Liberty)

5. Within the New Covenant they are written on the hearts and minds of believers by God to be lived out under the New Covenant.

6. They are applied in relationships with God and man by the power of indwelling the Holy Spirit within Christians.

... therefore we must keep the Sabbath. Is that what you mean?

 

[Shamah]

So if the Lord Jesus, in your own understanding speaks against Judaism, and Paul speaks against Judaism what exactly are you trying to promote?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 John/Yahanan 1:9, "Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of the Messiah, does not have Yah. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the Belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”[/FONT]

 

[Nehemiah6]

... therefore we must keep the Sabbath. Is that what you mean?

The Christian sabbath is the Lord's Day -- designed for worship, rest, and good works.

 

[Shamah]

Isaiah 13:1-8, "13:1, "The message concerning Baḇel which Yeshayahu son of Amots saw."13:2, "“Lift up a banner on the high mountain, raise your voice to them; wave your hand, let them enter the gates of the nobles."13:3, "“I have commanded My set-apart ones; I have also called My mighty men for My displeasure, My proudly exulting ones.”"13:4, "The noise of an uproar in the mountains, like that of many people! A noise of uproar of the reigns of nations gathered together!יהוה of hosts is gathering an army for battle."13:5, "They are coming from a distant land, from the end of the heavens, even יהוה and His weapons of displeasure, to destroy all the earth.13:6, "Howl, for the day of יהוה is near! It comes as a destruction from the Almighty."13:7, "Therefore all hands go limp, every man’s heart melts,"13:8, "and they shall be afraid. Pangs and sorrows take hold of them, they are in pain as a woman in labour; they are amazed at one another, their faces aflame!"


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 19:11-16, “And I saw the heaven opened, and there was a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Trustworthy and True, and in righteousness He judges and fights. And His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns, having a Name that had been written, which no one had perceived except Himself – and having been dressed in a robe dipped in blood (Isaiah 63:2) and His Name is called: The Word of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And the armies in the heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations. And He shall shepherd them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of the Almighty Strength. And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written: SOVEREIGN OF SOVEREIGNS AND MASTER OF MASTERS.”[/FONT]

Isaiah 24:1-6, "See, יהוה is making the earth empty and making it waste, and shall overturn its surface, and shall scatter abroad its inhabitants. 2 And it shall be – as with the people so with the priest, as with the servant so with his master, as with the female servant so with her mistress, as with the buyer so with the seller, as with the lender so with the borrower, as with the creditor so with the debtor; 3 the earth is completely emptied and utterly plundered, for יהוה has spoken this word. 4 The earth shall mourn and wither, the world shall languish and wither, the haughty people of the earth shall languish. 5 For the earth has been defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the Torah, changed the law, broken the everlasting covenant. 6 Therefore a curse shall consume the earth, and those who dwell in it be punished. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth shall be burned, and few men shall be left.”


Matt 24:21-22, "For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning ofthe world to this time--no, nor ever will be. And unless those days were shortened, there would no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake, those days will be shortened."

 

[beta]

You're right -- you made no reference to circumcision. I don't even remember why I used GAL 5:2......,but my question is: Why do you separate the Ten Commandments from the other 603 laws? If Paul says we are not under the Law that means we are not under the Ten Commandments.

As far as I understand GOD wants us to put difference between what is holy and what is not holy Lev 10v10....why ? because what is holy is sacred and eternal and what is not holy is of a temporary earthly/physical nature that does not endure, is not meant to last for ever. We also know that GOD can not co-exist with anything/anyone who is not holy....hence for us/man to become holy to enter His Kingdom.

GOD also personally spoke the 10 Commandments to which He added no more Deut 5v22...separating them from the other temporary commandments given through Moses referring to ordinances and works which Jesus then fulfilled on the cross no longer to be kept.

When Paul talks about Law he is not always clear as to which law...that's why some of his writings are hard to understand. Yet Paul also says we are to follow him as he follows Christ...and Jesus most certainly was/is not lawless....HE kept Moses law and also His Fathers Commandments which are eternal and are for us today !

Does that explain Marcelo ?

 

[beta]

You're right -- you made no reference to circumcision. I don't even remember why I used GAL 5:2......,but my question is: Why do you separate the Ten Commandments from the other 603 laws? If Paul says we are not under the Law that means we are not under the Ten Commandments.

Just some more information.....way back in Ex 20 when God personally gave the 10 Com. the people refused to hear God any more Deut 5 and begged Moses to hear God and then tell them what He said...so we have today people who do not want to hear God....only Moses....and you can see for yourself what the result is....the 10 holy/spiritual Commandments are given to Moses and then abolished...consequently
'no holy Sabbath for people to share with a holy God...what a Calamity !!!

 

[Grandpa]

Originally Posted by Grandpa

So if the Lord Jesus, in your own understanding speaks against Judaism, and Paul speaks against Judaism what exactly are you trying to promote?

2 John/Yahanan 1:9, "Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of the Messiah, does not have Yah. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son."


Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

Matthew 11:28 [FONT=&quot]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

[/FONT]Does that seem like a teaching?

 

[Marcelo]

Just some more information.....way back in Ex 20 when God personally gave the 10 Com. the people refused to hear God any more Deut 5 and begged Moses to hear God and then tell them what He said...so we have today people who do not want to hear God....only Moses....and you can see for yourself what the result is....the 10 holy/spiritual Commandments are given to Moses and then abolished...consequently
'no holy Sabbath for people to share with a holy God...what a Calamity !!!

If Scriptures clearly stated that Christians must keep the Sabbath, just like the Israelites did, I would do it too. If salvation depended on Sabbath keeping, of course I would do it!

 

[Nehemiah6]

If Scriptures clearly stated that Christians must keep the Sabbath, just like the Israelites did, I would do it too. If salvation depended on Sabbath keeping, of course I would do it!

Like I said earlier, the Lord's Day is the Christian sabbath. So you are observing it already.

 

[Shamah]

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Does that seem like a teaching?

Yes, He is saying "Coume unto me..." ATeaching or command.. A rest none have yet entered into:

2 Thessalonians 1:5-10, “Clear evidence of the righteous judgment of יהוה, in order for you to be counted worthy of the reign of יהוה, for which you also suffer, since יהוה shall rightly repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give you who are afflictedrest with us when the Master יהושע is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know יהוה, and on those who do not obey the Good News of our Master יהושע Messiah, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Master and from the esteem of His strength, when He comes to be esteemed in His set-apart ones and to be admired among all those who believe in that Day, because our witness to you was believed.”



Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"

 

[beta]

If Scriptures clearly stated that Christians must keep the Sabbath, just like the Israelites did, I would do it too. If salvation depended on Sabbath keeping, of course I would do it!

And you think that a 'clear command' would make all the difference ? facts prove otherwise and failed !
How long have the 10 commandments been 'commanded one way or another by order/letter and example and still not obeyed ???
Please tell me what more God can do to make man obey ???
The answer of course is given but even that is not sinking below the hard and impenitent hearts of rebellious men. Some just refuse or don't recognise their own deep fallen state to have their stony hearts changed and circumcised. Satan's deception is total unless we die to self and give up our own human reasoning...thus allowing GOD's Word total control in our life !!!
Making conditions to God as to WHEN you are prepared to change is not going to work....as many will find out on Judgement day !

 

[beta]

Like I said earlier, the Lord's Day is the Christian sabbath. So you are observing it already.

[/SIZE]

So why did you not provide Marcelo with a 'clear command' as he requires of me regarding the Sabbath ???
I of course have a 'clear command to keep the sabbath day holy Ex 20v8, as well as JESUS' personal example while here on earth....various scriptures NT....but somehow not acceptable.

Yet you expect people to keep sunday and confirm their adherance - on your say-so ?