Scripture does answer that question.
"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matt 5:48
Not By Works
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"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matt 5:48
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
To me this pretty well spells out that although as the children of God we still at times sin, God has stated he will "remember them no more".
It's not a license to sin, but there is a definite allusion that we won't be walking totally sinless while in the body.
To me this pretty well spells out that although as the children of God we still at times sin, God has stated he will "remember them no more".
It's not a license to sin, but there is a definite allusion that we won't be walking totally sinless while in the body.
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NoNameMcgee
Guest
Luke 18:19
“And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.”
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Romans 3:10
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
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1 John 3:7
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
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Romans 4
4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
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NoNameMcgee
Guest
Isn't it wonderful that we live in this age of grace? Makes even the worst days, always a great day to be alive!
and even greater when we are dead!
and even greater when we are dead!
imputed righteousness by grace through faith....
praise Jesus
Jesus has given us Holiness! His holiness! And we are like toddlers trying to fill His shoes. I think He is delighted with us as He watches. I know I was when my kids clomped around in ours.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Actually yes it does.
All have sinned and FALL SHORT of the glory of God.
Even Jesus said, Only God is good.
A legalist says they are made righteous by earning their salvation. I am not a legalist. I am a tax collector who got on my knees and cried out to God because I knew I was unworthy.
Can you tell me how a person is justified, declared righteous, so they can enter heaven?
I am not saying a person can be saved and continue to live or excuse their sin, So please stop wiht that strawman.
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NoNameMcgee
Guest
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NoNameMcgee
Guest
John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
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Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
It does answer it but that perfect is in complete . We are complete or perfected in Christ not perfect without flaw .Only God is without flaw.
He is the just and justifier or perfecter of our new born again faith .If he have begun his good work of salvation in us he will perform it to the end making us complete.
[/QUOTE]When I hear these words, I hear sinless perfection. You can not claim we have to do EXACTLY what God says, and then say we do not have to do it perfectly. that is contradicting yourself. (at least in my opinion)
Now. saying that, we agree, people who are saved do obey God, where we disagree is saying we HAVE to do everything God says or else (well the law says this, but who can obey the law) it is impossible for a baby child of God to even know what God commands, let alone be able to do them, and failure to do them is sin.[/QUOTE]
Maybe I should reword that statement. What I am trying to say is that we have to be willing, obedient, and follow God to the best of our ability, and put forth an effort to grow in his grace and do his will. When we fail then we have to have remorse and ask for forgiveness.
We are only held accountable by what we know, but we can’t just sit back and use that as an excuse for ever. We do have to grow in knowledge and understanding… In order to do that we have to apply ourselves to God and seek him. No we will never be perfect but we do have to strive for excellence and do all things to the best of our ability and ask God to teach us and provide for whatever is lacking through his grace, but we do have to put forth the effort to follow him to the best of our ability.
[/QUOTE]No one is saying otherwise. I am dumbfounded (not saying you are, just saying) as to why people say because they believe in grace alone through faith alone, they must be practicing or excusing sin, when this is just not so.
To me, saying I must continue to be saved by grace is saying I can not live up to Gods standard (perfection) and this is why I will Continue to need grace.
Not that I am saved so now I can live however I want, (as many churches will claim this means, and many people will go to their graves believing this is true)
if anyone says this, to me they have not yet repented, and are not saved. [/QUOTE]I’m not saying anyone on here is saying that grace means you can continue on sinning and do whatever you want.
I’m just talking from personal experience here…I have seen some that will make it so hard that no one could make it. They place grievous burdens on others by handing out the law and judging everything that another person does. They’re the ones that are pushing sinless perfection and saying that you can never make a mistake and be saved. They leave out or seem to forget about God’s love, mercy, and grace. On the other hand, I’ve seen some others who say I’m saved…the end…I can do whatever I want…I don’t have to do anything cause Jesus already done it all. To me they are neither one on the straight and narrow path…they are standing to the left and the right of it. [/QUOTE] We agree Grace is not a license to sin, Salvation is the beginning of our walk, not the end. [/QUOTE]Amen totally agree with this…Like I said before, I respect you and am not saying that you are saying that grace is a license to sin. I have had a lot of discussion with you and know that this is not you stance on it.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
What if we do not.
for example, you have a daughter, and you tell her to be back at 6:00 for dinner, but she does not come back until 7, She made no effort to come back, she was not remorseful and does not ask forgiveness.
Again what if we do not strive to do this, what will the result or the consequences be?
Amen, I totally agree with this!!
Thank you
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
its ok, I think I fixed it.. at least in my response..lol Thats why I use bold and color my responses, makes it so much easier to see what I said compared to what you say
Ok as shown in my previous post I'm at a loss for multiple quoting...So I'm just going to reply by number of each quote...lolWhat if we do not.
for example, you have a daughter, and you tell her to be back at 6:00 for dinner, but she does not come back until 7, She made no effort to come back, she was not remorseful and does not ask forgiveness.
Again what if we do not strive to do this, what will the result or the consequences be?
Amen, I totally agree with this!!
Thank you
1. She is going to get a punishment or consequence for it such as being grounded. She will have to face a consequence for her actions of disobedience. And I wouldn't just be punishing her to just be mean. I would be doing it to help her learn to follow the rules because I love her and want to teach her.
2. My question to that would be if we don't strive to do that are we even really saved?
But I really can't judge that because it is God who judges the heart. He know's the hearts of everyone and he knows the reasoning of all men.
3. Amen
4. Your welcome
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Thanks for the help...as for me I'm just going to have to leave the multiple quoting to the professionals...
lol
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Agree, And this is what God does, He chastens those who are his, and to those who have been trained by it, we know it is not just a slap on the wrist!
But what I do not think happens, is that neither you or God will kick you out of your family for it. (Ie, loss of salvation)
Here is where I think it gets dangerous. Bear with me and tell me if you understand and agre
If a person never strives in anything, I agree with you..they most likely are not saved.
But we all have our besetting sin, we all struggle I think with different areas.and we all have our weaknesses. And like the daughter example. There are areas where we just stand pat and say sorry God I do not trust you yet in this area, so Forgive me God, but I am not yet ready to give you this area of my life (most likely due to ignorance, or lack of understanding at least from experience this is the way it is with me) Then I would not judge this person as not saved, I would say he or she needs some more discipline encouragement and growth.
What scares me anyway, is when people say we must do this or that, it does not take this into consideration, (point 2) it says if we do not give it all to god, we are either not saved, or at risk for losing salvation, and I disagree.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Thanks for the help...as for me I'm just going to have to leave the multiple quoting to the professionals...
I do not know if I would call myself a professional. Lol. My spelling can be aweful at times!!
lol
There is a multi-quote option, to the right of Reply With Quote option. It is a little plus sign beside a quotation mark That is used when you want to put two or more posts together. It can be tricky, though, so I usually just quote one message, then copy it, and move to the next message I want to quote, and insert the first message ahead of it. I will often use the Go Advanced option to check that everything displays properly.
Separating parts of one person's post into sections to respond to point by point is a different matter of using the quote wrap. Then you have to make sure that there are not more opening quote tags than closing quote tags, and vice versa. The quote wrap option is beside the insert video option above the text box
That is used when you want to put two or more posts together. It can be tricky, though, so I usually just quote one message, then copy it, and move to the next message I want to quote, and insert the first message ahead of it. I will often use the Go Advanced option to check that everything displays properly. Separating parts of one person's post into sections to respond to point by point is a different matter of using the quote wrap. Then you have to make sure that there are not more opening quote tags than closing quote tags, and vice versa. The quote wrap option is beside the insert video option above the text box
I agree...
Just because someone struggles with certain things and has to ask for forgiveness more than someone else in that area does not mean that they are not saved. Also like you said we all have to continue to grow in this and we can make mistakes trough lack of understanding and inexperience. That does not mean that we are not saved...but just like you said that means that we need more discipline, encouragement, and growth. That is why I said it is not my place to judge because God knows the heart and the reasoning.
I've seen it and even been in that situation where I myself have been struggling and in need of guidance, understanding, and encouragement...and seemed like all I got from some people was judgement...Some people are quick to lay down the law and say you could not be saved if you continue to have any struggles. More or less, a kick you when you are down type thing and not even really trying to help you up. That's why I am glad that God is the judge because he knows our hearts and he is there to help us and pick us back up through his love, grace, and mercy.