The Rapture

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Perhaps there should be three different Rapture threads? For Pre, Mid & Post Tribbers. And maybe an anti-rapture thread. LOL!
Then if you don't like one interpretation you could not comment in that respective thread?

I'd like to read more of the different views and teachings without all the bickering.

 

[Speak2Me]

Your ego is amazing. You claim to know better than the theologians that for centuries have studied this. When someone talks like that I think about Jim Jones. He brought a new meaning to "drinking kool-aid."

No amount of character assassination will make you right, so knock it off.

 

[Lafftur]

Hello Ellsworth1943,

I understand your concern for caution, but I can see Ahwatukee's passion for God's Word. He doesn't defend himself, he defends what he believes to be God's Word. Notice how he stays strictly to scripture and does not deviate.

One that loves God and His Word will be given understanding and insight and I was just wondering if Ahwatukee might have been given any insight from the Holy Spirit about the 4 living creatures at the throne room in Rev. Chapter 4.

 

[Ellsworth1943]

Hello Ellsworth1943,

I understand your concern for caution, but I can see Ahwatukee's passion for God's Word. He doesn't defend himself, he defends what he believes to be God's Word. Notice how he stays strictly to scripture and does not deviate.

One that loves God and His Word will be given understanding and insight and I was just wondering if Ahwatukee might have been given any insight from the Holy Spirit about the 4 living creatures at the throne room in Rev. Chapter 4.

But he often gives his private interpretation on Scripture.
What ever insight he has will agree with Scripture and will be given to you or me if we will pray and study.
His intellect nor his understanding is any greater than most of us.
I stand by my warning to be careful of any teacher who continually corrects those who disagrees with them and has on occasion told those who disagree with him that they should not teach.

 

[Roadkill]

Don't assume that my friend. LOL

 

[Roadkill]

I just started to study the rapture and the tribulation few days ago. I came across what every Christian is debating about. I alone believe in the mid tribulation rapture. I just want to get your view on this if you are pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib rapture believer. THANKS AND GOD BLESS

I am Mid Tribulation too. The Church age has to come to an end before the last 3 and a half years occur. We are not to see God's wrath when this happens.

 

[heartofdavid]

The problem is rapture is a theological term and isn't in the Bible. There are other theological words like that. They are used to define an issue. One word instead of many.

Who in the world is concerned with how caught up,catching up,being caught up, is abbreviated????

 

[Roadkill]

The Son of God who is not a man as us remains not seen,without mother or father, beginning of Spirit life or end thereof.

Eternal God who abides as our high priest continually came as the Son of man temporally clothing himself with corruptible flesh, signified as sinful, for a one time promised demonstration of pouring out his Spirit not seen .

The promise was once. The veil is rent. We know him no more forever more that way. But rather walk by faith the unseen.( No more fleshly Jesus.)

2Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Feet in various parables are used to represent the gospel. Just as mountains are used to represent kingdoms of this world.

Christ as the anointing Spirit of God will come down on the last day the second and final resurrection. The same day according to the Zechariah.

Zechariah 14: KJV
1 "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. {2} For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. {3} Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. {4} ¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

In that day the kingdoms of this world will be divided, just as dividing the sheep from the goats . The second and final resurrection will occur on the same day as judgement for those who know not Christ.They will not receive a new incorruptible body.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms (mountains) of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Again we look to the unseen eternal, as that not seen, the faith coming from God principle.. The temporal as that seen will not be revealed again. It was a one-time demonstration (2Corinthians 5:16 )

Then exactly who did the disciples see and Handle if it wasn't Jesus risen in the Flesh? To not believe Jesus arose in the flesh puts your salvation into question brother!

 

[heartofdavid]

Perhaps there should be three different Rapture threads? For Pre, Mid & Post Tribbers. And maybe an anti-rapture thread. LOL!
Then if you don't like one interpretation you could not comment in that respective thread?

I'd like to read more of the different views and teachings without all the bickering.

All those already exist on cc.

The pretrib rapture is the hot spot.

It is the only one that is defendable biblically.

When the debate is kept on a verse vs verse basis, or a concept vs concept arena, it is usually a informative study.

What happens is one side will go personal.
With that ,comes the inevitable offence and ESCALATION.

Pretribs,as a rule, are not preoccupied with " antipostrib extrabiblical attacking".
We are mostly berean based. Scripture.

One member on cc CAN NOT MAKE A SENTENCE without the name "margaret McDonald"
Now this guy is post trib rapture. I and others have shown him he is lying.
She BELIEVED the church NEEDED TO HO THROUGH the gt for cleansing.

It is either ignorance or some mental issue as to why he continues to make a fool of himself.

Serious students get tired of the extra biblical roads to nowhere.

But THE REASON they do it,is because they are seriously hamstrung in knowledge of the bible,and apparently out of frustration, hope to provoke the pretribs into their game.

For example,ask them to provide you with a post trib rapture verse. You will see immediately they have nothing scripturally.
Absolutely nothing.

The character assasination and going personal is there for a reason

 

[heartofdavid]

Your ego is amazing. You claim to know better than the theologians that for centuries have studied this. When someone talks like that I think about Jim Jones. He brought a new meaning to "drinking kool-aid."

Has it ever occurred to you to make a point scripturrally?
Your church fathers were catholics. They burned pretribs and their writings.
Get a bible ,open it, and challenge us.

 

[Endoscopy]

There is your ego again. You have received information contrary to what theologians for centuries have struggled with and adamantly state you are the only correct one. Try again!!!

 

[Endoscopy]

Has it ever occurred to you to make a point scripturrally?
Your church fathers were catholics. They burned pretribs and their writings.
Get a bible ,open it, and challenge us.

I provided the scripture by posting the two different sites that discuss the scripture and the 4 seperate views of eschatology. Then you post this disgusting personal attack. What kind of a Christian are you???

Posting all of what is on those two sites would take several very long posts that most people would ignore. I take it that you ignored those sites and just keep on blathering your egotistical rants instead of refuting them!!

 

[Deade]

I provided the scripture by posting the two different sites that discuss the scripture and the 4 seperate views of eschatology. Then you post this disgusting personal attack. What kind of a Christian are you???

Posting all of what is on those two sites would take several very long posts that most people would ignore. I take it that you ignored those sites and just keep on blathering your egotistical rants instead of refuting them!!

Hi Endoscopy,

I believe you need to read post #145 in Understanding the end of Days Question. It addresses the mid-trib argument. I myself am post trib caught-up (rapture if you will) believer. It talks of persecution of believers during the trouble. Following are the verses that I listed in that post.

You quote Rev. 12: Re 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness [UNOCUPPIED PLACE], where she hath a PLACE PREPARED BY GOD [JESUS], that they should NOURISH her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Re 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the [UNOCUPPIED PLACE], into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Let's further define where this wilderness will be: Rev 12:15,16: "And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth."

OK so the water in prophecy is always people [I hope you agree] - Then how this wilderness be in heaven. The devil cannot send a flood of people to heaven. The earth cannot swallow a hoard of people in heaven. It must be on earth. Thoughts?

Yours,

Deade

 

[Locutus]

Not happening - the "mother ship" came and went.

 

[heartofdavid]

I provided the scripture by posting the two different sites that discuss the scripture and the 4 seperate views of eschatology. Then you post this disgusting personal attack. What kind of a Christian are you???

Posting all of what is on those two sites would take several very long posts that most people would ignore. I take it that you ignored those sites and just keep on blathering your egotistical rants instead of refuting them!!

Your going personal is what i was referring to.

I guess you do that for whatever reason.

Very toxic and non productive to the discussion.

Like i said,challenge the verses. Stop attacking members

 

[heartofdavid]

Hi Endoscopy,

I believe you need to read post #145 in Understanding the end of Days Question. It addresses the mid-trib argument. I myself am post trib caught-up (rapture if you will) believer. It talks of persecution of believers during the trouble. Following are the verses that I listed in that post.

You quote Rev. 12: Re 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness [UNOCUPPIED PLACE], where she hath a PLACE PREPARED BY GOD [JESUS], that they should NOURISH her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Re 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the [UNOCUPPIED PLACE], into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Let's further define where this wilderness will be: Rev 12:15,16: "And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth."

OK so the water in prophecy is always people [I hope you agree] - Then how this wilderness be in heaven. The devil cannot send a flood of people to heaven. The earth cannot swallow a hoard of people in heaven. It must be on earth. Thoughts?

Yours,

Deade

The only mid trib gathering is rev 14.

And that is right after the first fruit jews.
Making that gathering jews also.

 

[Endoscopy]

Hi Endoscopy,

I believe you need to read post #145 in Understanding the end of Days Question. It addresses the mid-trib argument. I myself am post trib caught-up (rapture if you will) believer. It talks of persecution of believers during the trouble. Following are the verses that I listed in that post.

You quote Rev. 12: Re 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness [UNOCUPPIED PLACE], where she hath a PLACE PREPARED BY GOD [JESUS], that they should NOURISH her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Re 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the [UNOCUPPIED PLACE], into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Let's further define where this wilderness will be: Rev 12:15,16: "And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth."

OK so the water in prophecy is always people [I hope you agree] - Then how this wilderness be in heaven. The devil cannot send a flood of people to heaven. The earth cannot swallow a hoard of people in heaven. It must be on earth. Thoughts?

Yours,

Deade

I researched the issue for years off and on when I was much younger, later had classes that included the topic taught by the pastors of the church. With all of that research and classes I found that the four views are Biblical. What causes this is the very symbolic points in Daniel and Revelation. There are NO difinative single explanations for them. This is according to the theologians for centuries as well. When I was in my teens and 20s I read different articles and books written by those who said they had the answer. Time proved them all wrong. I put you in the same category. You might believe you have the answer but historically every one who has made this claim has been proven wrong by time.

 

[Nehemiah6]

With all of that research and classes I found that the four views are Biblical.

Well just take a moment to think about this. Can four views of salvation all be correct? Can four views of water baptism all be correct? Can four views of the Godhead all be correct? Can four views of the nature of Christ all be correct?

The answer is obvious. There can be only one correct view of any Bible doctrine, and all others must be discarded. So if you are holding four views of the Rapture, it is time to pick one and stick with it.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Well just take a moment to think about this. Can four views of salvation all be correct? Can four views of water baptism all be correct? Can four views of the Godhead all be correct? Can four views of the nature of Christ all be correct?

The answer is obvious. There can be only one correct view of any Bible doctrine, and all others must be discarded. So if you are holding four views of the Rapture, it is time to pick one and stick with it.

This is exactly what I replied to him. You can't have multiple views all being Biblically correct. There is only one meaning to the events of Revelation and the order in which they take place. The obvious conclusion is to reveal the problems with those other views as to why they cannot be correct.

I, as I am sure you have, as well as others, have arrived at our conclusions of end-time events by cross-referencing and comparing all related scriptures and their contexts. For example, the historical view, which is where end times are applied to past historical events beginning with the first century, yet Jesus said that these events would take place in the last generation. Toss that view out!

Then you have Preterism, which claims that most if not all end-time events have already taken place in 70 AD at the destruction of the temple. The promises that Jesus made are to the entire church, which is still in the process of being built. If all end-time events had already taken place, the majority of the church would have been left out of those promises, affecting only the first century church, not to mention that there is absolutely no recorded fulfillment of said events, unless of course you ignore the literal and allegorize them.

I can already see the preterist jumping up and down in their seats, turning red and getting ready to fire back, with empty ammo, just like their interpretations.

There are many who don't understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments nor the chronological order of events.

 

[Endoscopy]

This is exactly what I replied to him. You can't have multiple views all being Biblically correct. There is only one meaning to the events of Revelation and the order in which they take place. The obvious conclusion is to reveal the problems with those other views as to why they cannot be correct.

I, as I am sure you have, as well as others, have arrived at our conclusions of end-time events by cross-referencing and comparing all related scriptures and their contexts. For example, the historical view, which is where end times are applied to past historical events beginning with the first century, yet Jesus said that these events would take place in the last generation. Toss that view out!

Then you have Preterism, which claims that most if not all end-time events have already taken place in 70 AD at the destruction of the temple. The promises that Jesus made are to the entire church, which is still in the process of being built. If all end-time events had already taken place, the majority of the church would have been left out of those promises, affecting only the first century church, not to mention that there is absolutely no recorded fulfillment of said events, unless of course you ignore the literal and allegorize them.

I can already see the preterist jumping up and down in their seats, turning red and getting ready to fire back, with empty ammo, just like their interpretations.

There are many who don't understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments nor the chronological order of events.

You two geniuses are so much smarter than the theologians that have worked on eschatology for centuries and came up with 4 different views of it. You are so much smarter than those men. AMAZING!!!! You never rebuted those two sites I pointed you to. Did you bother to even look at them? It seems to me that you don't want to learn what theologians whose job is to study the Bible and make decisions about what it means. To me all you did is ignore them and keep on posting how smarter you are than theologians that study the scripture. I hate to say this but you two sound as dogmatic as Jim Jones!!

Methinks your egos are getting in the way!!!