Not By Works

[UnderGrace]

Ralphie,

That's making grace a license to sin

Let's deal with this one statement you have made. You have stated it very clearly so I assume you do sincerely believe what you have stated.

I and will assume to know your position on this because you made a clear statement of belief. I will make my position clear too...nothing sends me more than when I hear/read this accusation......just an fyi

You are not the only one to make this false accusation, they also accused Paul of the same thing.

When you say grace is a license to sin you are actually using distorted reasoning by any moral human being by saying "let us do evil that good may come"

So you accuse me and some others of this moral perversion by this statement. Why?

Because your thinking is this....... if God eliminates works in every way, as a basis to determine the righteousness of one's salvation of a person and places it solely upon the work of Jesus, then you twist that and you say it makes no difference how a saved person lives.

You miss truth with perverted reasoning, to preach Grace is to settle our trust in our Saviour not a license to sin

Are you following Ralphie? .....

But since Paul dealt with this slander he made a statement about it, I will also let you read what he said.

Romans 3:8
8Why not say, as some slanderously claim that we say, “- Let us do evil that good may result?” Their condemnation is deserved!

Did you catch that last line, those who slanderously say let us do evil that good may come, their condemation is deserved

Are you ready to retract this false allegation that some here promote a license to sin?

How do you know a position that I have not said either way I have? You're assuming you know my position. Which is fine. You can do that if you want. But you'd probably be SHOCKED if I told you everything that I think about once saved always saved and the Bible. Utterly shocked. Both Calvinists and Arminians.

But anyway if two people stand before Jesus at his return and neither believes, and because they don't believe they have no works, they both go into the furnace, not into the kingdom. Now, explain what it matters if one of them never believed to begin with and the other did believe but fell away? You'll see that once saved always saved is absolutely irrelevant to whether a person living in a Galatians 5:23 life will be saved when Jesus comes back. Absolutely irrelevant. The only way that it could be relevant is if you believe that the unchanged person will be saved despite his 'living in' sin. That's making grace a license to sin.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

hmmm strange accusation
im not calvinist

franc used to call me that though

 

[joefizz]

hmmm strange accusation
im not calvinist

nah no stranger than most mixed up people that come here making claims,they have a huge ego yet they don't somehow,they claim to know truth but dance around it just like the golden calf of old,and push a doctrine that "fits themselves" yet they can't "abide by" their own doctrine,no wonder atheists think we are spiritual nuts,with all the confused yet not confused Christians,feeding them such drivel.

 

[Ralph-]

You've admitted that you still sin, Ralph. The only contention is the total

If that is true then you are not saved. Nobody is. Not even you, because the Bible says the person who lives the life described in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:21, Ephesians 5:5, and 1 John 3:6-10 is not saved. And since you're saying that the practice of sin is the only sin there is then you effectively condemn yourself as not being saved. You obviously did not realize this.

Lets assume you commit only 5 sins a day starting today (which is being extremely conservative).

5 sins times 7 days = 35; times a month = 140; times a year = 1680. Lets assume you live another 20 years - that comes out to 33,600 sins (Which doesn't take into account all of the sins you've committed since you became a Christian).

That looks like the very definition of one who "practices" a lifestyle of sin.

If you're sinning the same today as you did twenty years ago and have not grown any in Christ you are not a believer. True believers are growing out of sin. That is the sign of the true believer. Fake believers are stuck exactly where they were the day they made their fake confession of Christ. They are stuck in their old lives and the Bible says that person is not born again and will not inherit the kingdom of God. And since you are saying all sin is that then you are saying that not even you are saved.

Also, the Bible says a believer will not, nor can, sin. (1 John 3:9). How do you explain that, Ralph?

That person does not 'go on sinning'. He does not abide in sin because God's seed abides in him. That's how we know we have passed from death to life. But the person who goes on sinning is not saved. That's why he goes on sinning.

Now YOU explain what it means since you have condemned yourself in this matter of sin by equating the sin of the growing Christian with the sin of the unregenerate unbeliever.

 

[TruthTalk]

nah no stranger than most mixed up people that come here making claims,they have a huge ego yet they don't somehow,they claim to know truth but dance around it just like the golden calf of old,and push a doctrine that "fits themselves" yet they can't "abide by" their own doctrine,no wonder atheists think we are spiritual nuts,with all the confused yet not confused Christians,feeding them such drivel.

Joefizz, a person who believes the truth and can untwist even the untwistable.

 

[joefizz]

If that is true then you are not saved. Nobody is. Not even you, because the Bible says the person who lives the life described in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:21, Ephesians 5:5, and 1 John 3:6-10 is not saved. And since you're saying that the life of sin is the only sin there is then you effectively condemn yourself as not being saved. You obviously did not realize this.



If you're sinning the same today as you did twenty years ago and have not grown any in Christ you are not a believer. True believers are growing out of sin. That is the sign of the true believer. Fake believers are stuck exactly where they were the day they made their fake confession of Christ. They are stuck in their old lives and the Bible says that person is not born again and will not inherit the kingdom of God. And since you are saying all sin is that then you are saying that even you are not saved then.


That person does not 'go on sinning'. He does not abide in sin because God's seed abides in him. That's how we know we have passed from death to life. But the person who goes on sinning is not saved. That's why he goes on sinning.

Now YOU explain what it means since you have condemned yourself in this matter of sin by equating the sin of the growing Christian with the sin of the unregenerate unbeliever.

Ok I can agree with the part about "True believers are growing out of sin" this is true since once born again you feel "convicted" about sin and as time goes on serving God/Jesus you aren't as prone to sin nor does one seek it as casually as they did before coming to God/Jesus and being saved.

 

[joefizz]

Joefizz, a person who believes the truth and can untwist even the untwistable.

No kidding because my mind's been "Twisted" like a sponge over my life and so I can discern many confusing statements due to that weirdness.

 

[Ralph-]

franc used to call me that though

You are not Calvinist, and I am not Fran. What you are is one who believes a doctrine of Calvinism called once saved always saved, and I am Ralph.

The point is if you're going to push that doctrine from Calvinism then you should understand all of it. And that means knowing that the person who falls away was never saved to begin with, but you and others are ignoring that part of that teaching and saying that the person who falls away is still saved because once they are saved they are always saved, no matter what, or else it's a works gospel.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

You are not Calvinist, and I am not Fran. What you are is one who believes a doctrine of Calvinism called once saved always saved, and I am Ralph.

The point is if you're going to push that doctrine from Calvinism then you should understand all of it. And that means knowing that the person who falls away was never saved to begin with, but you and others are ignoring that part of that teaching and saying that the person who falls away is still saved because once they are saved they are always saved, no matter what, or else it's a works gospel.

i dont believe in tulip


your theory has crumbled

 

[Ralph-]

Ok I can agree with the part about "True believers are growing out of sin" this is true since once born again you feel "convicted" about sin and as time goes on serving God/Jesus you aren't as prone to sin nor does one seek it as casually as they did before coming to God/Jesus and being saved.

Yes. And so now you can see how it is that the person who is not living the life is not born again and is not going to inherit the kingdom, just what the Bible says and what I've been saying it says. But this has been assailed as being unbiblical and false and untrue.

Even the hardcore Calvinists here have been saying what I'm saying is untrue. They don't even seem to be aware that's what their own Calvinist doctrine says.

 

[Ralph-]

i dont believe in tulip

Right, you believe in the 'P' in tulip. The once saved always saved part. It says if a person does not live the life in faith without falling right to the end they were never saved to begin with. But you and others are not being true to that part of Calvin's once saved always saved doctrine that you say you believe when you say it doesn't matter if a person falls and that they are still saved nonetheless.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Right, you believe in the 'P' in tulip. The once saved always saved part. It says if a person does not live the life in faith without falling right to the end they were never saved to begin with. But you and others are not being true to that part of Calvin's once saved always saved doctrine that you say you believe when you say it doesn't matter if a person falls and that they are still saved nonetheless.

i do believe we arent saved by works but by faith in Jesus



aside from how much you try to stick calvins name to my beliefs

im not ashamed of the true gospel

 

[maxwel]

I get regular emails from this person.

Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg


https://israelbiblicalstudies.com/teacher/eli-lizorkin-eyzenberg/

Read his language skills. One of his emails made reference to this. I put up his knowledge against your not sure about that any time.

Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg is a man from Uzbekistan with a PhD in Ancient Cultures, who started an online school for laymen.
I can't see that he has any specialized degrees in any ancient languages of any kind.
So although it's possible he's the world's leading expert in Hebrew, there's nothing in his resume to indicate that.

Granted he does have real degrees from real institutions, there doesn't seem to be anything in his resume that would indicate his knowledge of Hebrew is superior to any other teacher of Hebrew, or that he's a "leading" scholar in Hebrew, BEYOND the fact that he helped develop some Hebrew curricula.

His online school called the Israel Study Center offers no degree programs, and it's courses are not accredited.

His school makes some very impressive claims: "Our courses are prepared in collaboration with internationally known world-class scholars, representing top Israeli and international universities".
Despite his impressive claims, and some extremely expensive prices attached to his unaccredited courses, he also has a gofundme account where he's begging for money for a vehicle upon which to stamp his school name (which I don't understand a need for if it's an online school). They also ask for a lot of volunteers for various things (as a ministry would do) although the school services are all purchased services, and it operates just like any normal business.

Although his courses are non-accredited, the fees are referred to as "tuitiion", which does seem to give it a certain marketing flare. And they DO NOT list any prices, not anywhere... you have to contact them in person, so they can do a sales pitch, before you can even find out the prices. (Even fully accredited universities will tell you tuition prices right on their websites.)



The Text of Isaish 64:6
"Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

According to Endoscopy in previous posts, Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg translates this phrase "filthy rags" as "dung".

Since all the commentaries I've seen, along with all the bible dictionaries and lexicons I've seen, translate the phrase in Isaiah 64:6 as something like "unclean garment", I cannot, at this point in time, see any reason to think a better translation is "dung."

I'll be more than happy to change my position if I see a good reason to change my position.

 

[joefizz]

i do believe we arent saved by works but by faith in Jesus



aside from how much you try to stick calvins name to my beliefs

im not ashamed of the true gospel

Amen I don't know about Calvin either,I just "Believe" God's word,just as is it written "once in God's hand none can be plucked out from his hand" like Jonah who "tried" to disobey God and even run from God but wouldn't you know it,"He couldn't" all he accomplished was "a delay" from serving God.

 

[joefizz]

Right, you believe in the 'P' in tulip. The once saved always saved part. It says if a person does not live the life in faith without falling right to the end they were never saved to begin with. But you and others are not being true to that part of Calvin's once saved always saved doctrine that you say you believe when you say it doesn't matter if a person falls and that they are still saved nonetheless.

Because "no brainer" people like me aren't indoctrinated into Calvinism or whatever you call it some of us simply "Believe" God's word we don't need some title to hide behind like Calvin,Baptist or some such,we can "speak truth" without backing from such things.

 

[Ralph-]

Are you ready to retract this false allegation that some here promote a license to sin?

Just because you and others here may not be able to see that to say once saved always saved means you can live in sin as described in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, 1 John 3:6-10, Ephesians 5:5, and Galatians 5:21 and you will still be saved (despite the fact these passages say you won't) doesn't mean I'm guilty of making false allegations about you making grace a license to sin. Remember, I'm entitled to my opinion just as you are. What you or I can't do is harass each other to retract our opinions. Some don't seem to know that they can not do that here.......yet.


The problem is you're not teaching Paul's gospel. If you were and I called it a license to sin that is when I'd be out of place. But as it is, you are not teaching Paul's gospel. You are teaching what is called hypergrace. It says you are saved no matter what, period, or else it's a works gospel. Not even classical Calvinists once saved always saved says that, it says if you live the 'no matter what' part you were never saved to begin with and so you will not be saved when Jesus comes back. What's totally strange is the Calvinist here aren't calling this new hypergrace doctrine out. They attack me who is defending it, while 'liking' the ones who are contradicting it.

 

[Laish]

Amen I don't know about Calvin either,I just "Believe" God's word,just as is it written "once in God's hand none can be plucked out from his hand" like Jonah who "tried" to disobey God and even run from God but wouldn't you know it,"He couldn't" all he accomplished was "a delay" from serving God.

What’s ironic is that Ralph has been able to unite Reformed and the none Reformed members here like no other .
That is really funny if ya think about it .
Blessings
Bill

 

[Ralph-]

Because "no brainer" people like me aren't indoctrinated into Calvinism or whatever you call it some of us simply "Believe" God's word we don't need some title to hide behind like Calvin,Baptist or some such,we can "speak truth" without backing from such things.

And what is so odd is the hardcore Calvinists here in this thread aren't lifting a finger to defend what Calvinists are so famous for angrily defending. I noticed this in another forum. Yet they come down on me like a ton of bricks who is defending it's teaching that says the person who is living in sin is not born again.

 

[UnderGrace]

Amen, truth cuts across many divisions

What’s ironic is that Ralph has been able to unite Reformed and the none Reformed members here like no other .
That is really funny if ya think about it .
Blessings
Bill

 

[UnderGrace]

I think reflects more on the weakness of your position and argument that they do not even have to say much.

And what is so odd is the hardcore Calvinists here in this thread aren't lifting a finger to defend what Calvinists are so famous for angrily defending. I noticed this in another forum. Yet they come down on me like a ton of bricks who is defending it's teaching that says the person who is living in sin is not born again.