Not By Works

[NoNameMcgee]

You were a good kid in the beginning. It hurts me to see you to have been so corrupted by Eternally-gratefull and decontroversail. I'm being honest. It's cutting my heart. You are just like them now.

would you like me to go back and take the time to remind you were you lied about what others had said?

quote the antagonistic comments?


plus

you and i have never spoke

unless you are franc...

since before you joined i have been shown the truth

 

[UnderGrace]

Ralphie,

No offense but you would either make a great lawyer or an absolutely horrible one, you have the absolute knack of mangling everything people state.


Well I am breaking my promise by engaging, but I will go a bit longer maybe.
Late here response will have to wait.

I posted the scripture references that say what I said. You'll have to post the references you're referring to to make your case.

You will see that you are confusing 'assurance' with 'security'. We have the assurance of our security in Christ by if we have works or not. You can only be assured that you are secure in Christ and are prepared to meet Jesus when he comes back if you have works. That is what the Bible says.

 

[stonesoffire]

Heb 12:1 Therefore, having so vast a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, and throwing off everything that hinders us and especially the sin that so easily entangles us, let us keep running with endurance the race set before us,


Heb 12:2 fixing our attention on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of the faith, who, in view of the joy set before him, endured the cross, disregarding its shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Do Not Grow Weary

Heb 12:3 Think about the one who endured such hostility from sinners, so that you may not become tired and give up.


Heb 12:4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.

Who struggled against sin here? The thief? Or Jesus?

 

[followjesus]

no one said they dont matter

people say they dont earn salvation....

if you look to your works

instead of Jesus for assurance

youre in a bad place


this thread isnt called "works dont matter"

its called "not by works"

salvation isnt a done deal bro, there are things we are rewuired to do, by the Lord Who makes the offer of salvation. if Jesus teaches a salvation that rewuires nothing of us, it would have merit, but Jesus doesnt teach that at all, he teaches that those who call Him Lord, are not saved already, but those who actually do Gods will. He says if you do not abide in His word, you will be cast out and burned in the fire. He says when He returns all nations will be gathered before Him, boith groups of people will call Hm Lord, those who Love others in deed and truth by clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, visiting the sick...ect in other words loving like the good samaritan in deed and action truth, reality.

if i love my fellow man and see Him in need, ill help im if im able or its not Love, love is a "work" though not actually a work, really nothing God teaches is a "work" for salvation, its simply believing what He said to believe and do. seems like the best place to decide these matters is scripture.


maybe the confusion is " what is salvation to you"? salvation from? and what does the term alvation mean in context of the Bible? could be people are arguing against the terminology rather than the points made. if 3 people define salvation differently, theyll all have different understandings about it.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

salvation isnt a done deal .

we will disagree again

just like we disagree in if Jesus was God in the flesh

 

[NoNameMcgee]

" what is salvation to you"? salvation from? and what does the term salvation mean in context of the Bible? could be people are arguing against the terminology rather than the points made. if 3 people define salvation differently, theyll all have different understandings about it.

salvation from being on side of the righteous judgement thats coming that leads to hell for what we have done

salvation that only Jesus can provide us

salvation that was finished for all those who believe on Him when He paid the price on the cross

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 10:22, “And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matt 24:12-13, “And because of the increase in lawlessness, the love of many shall become cold. But he who shall have endured to the end shall be saved.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:36, “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yah you may receive what is promised.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 3:14, “For we have become partakers of Messiah if we hold fast the beginning of our trust firm to the end.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 1:12, "Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 11:4, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is in His holy temple; [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]throne is in heaven; His eyes behold, His eyelids test the sons of men.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 62:9-12, “Sons of Aḏam are but a breath, Sons of men are a lie; If weighed in the scales, They are altogether lighter than breath. Do not trust in oppression. And do not become vain in robbery; If riches increase, Do not set your heart on them. The Mighty One has spoken once, Twice I have heard this: That strength belongs to Yah. And loving-commitment is Yours, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]; For You reward each one according to his work.”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:28-30, “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth – those who have done* righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced* evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment. Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*done” is word #G4160 ποιέω poieo (poi-ye'-ō) v., to make or do.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]{in a very wide application, more or less direct; properly refers to a single act thus differing from G4238}, [apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary], Compare: G4238[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*practiced” G4238 πράσσω prasso (pras'-sō) v., 1. to practice, i.e. perform repeatedly or habitually., 2. (by implication) to execute, accomplish, etc., 3. (specially) to collect (dues), fare (personally)., {differing from G4160, which properly refers to a single act}, [a primary verb], KJV: commit, deeds, do, exact, keep, require, use arts, Compare: G4160[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

 

[TruthTalk]

no one said they dont matter

people say they dont earn salvation....

if you look to your works

instead of Jesus for assurance

youre in a bad place


this thread isnt called "works dont matter"

its called "not by works"

I for one am amazed at your spiritual growth and discernment. I was born again at 28yrs old, just a year older than you are right now.... When we stand on the foundation that Jesus laid nothing can shake or destroy our faith.

No turning back and God bless.

 

[Blain]

Jesus said the Pharisees appeared righteous on the outside but they were full of hypocrisy and lawlessness-Matthew 23:28. They did not keep the law as so many want to claim. It's impossible to compare them to the obedient Christian who is not lawless. But people are so quick to condemn the successful Christian with the honest and good heart who bears fruit (Luke 8:15) as being nothing more than a deceived Pharisee working his way into the kingdom, but we see that the Bible says that no comparison or similarity exists between the two. The Pharisees were lawless and did not bear fruit. While the obedient Christian is not lawless and bears fruit.

Works really do show if you have faith or not. That is what the Bible says. "show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works"-James 2:18.

Works are merely works but the heart behind them is what the deciding factor is. The pharisees showed plenty of outer works but their hearts were not in it. the entirety of works cannot simply be debated in a simple manner because there is are many variables that are intertwined to it. Like for instance how I always describe the difference between a Christian by heart and a Christian by title.
Anyone can call themselves Christian, anyone can go to church daily they can do all kinds of works of servitude they can pray lofty prayers and they can even know the bible like the back of their hands but that doesn't make them a Christian does it? In fact this is the method many false preachers and people in high esteemed churches work, but their works are tainted because of what is in their hearts.

sadly works is one of the best ways to (appear) righteous, this of course is not to say that works do not have their merit they can show if one is truly saved but not always it is not the best way to read someones heart

 

[posthuman]

Your way of letting me know I'm on ignore. It's okay. I'm just saying what Jesus and the Apostles said and being punished for it.

“Blessed are you when men hate you, and ostracize you, and insult you, and scorn your name as evil, for the sake of the Son of Man. 23“Be glad in that day and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven.-Luke 6:22

That makes Calvin blessed, don't it?

Maybe i ought to actually read what he said sometime. All i really hear of Him is from people who revile him, but from what i can gather, he intended to glorify God with what he wrote. 'institutes' isn't it?

 

[posthuman]

Just like the the thief on the cross was rejected by Jesus eh? That poor idiot didn't know what he was getting into with his confession of faith.

Hey he technically stopped stealing there at the end. i am told that 'not doing' certain things equals 'doing a work'




Action accomplished by inaction. Cool, eh? All that brother had to do was believe, confess belief and die. Presto, good works!

 

[joefizz]

I for one am amazed at your spiritual growth and discernment. I was born again at 28yrs old, just a year older than you are right now.... When we stand on the foundation that Jesus laid nothing can shake or destroy our faith.

No turning back and God bless.

I was born again at around 22 and this is my job now and it certainly is wonderful,and I for one "have no doubts" concerning salvation,for I can't Deny how I felt when saved and "Must serve"God/Jesus ,I could rattle my brain too as some do with worry over a bunch of "what ifs" but until judgement day I feel I must serve God/Jesus "without fear or doubt" of what is to come to pass eventually.

 

[joefizz]

You were a good kid in the beginning. It hurts me to see you to have been so corrupted by Eternally-gratefull and decontroversail. I'm being honest. It's cutting my heart. You are just like them now.

He is good,good at telling it like it is,as clearly you have a problem with but oh well,everyone has their "flock",question is which one is "led" by Jesus?

 

[stillness]

Languages were confused at the tower where man was building a god for himself and only as we walk in Love are we restored in unity of the spirit. If we desire to be in charge we could be saying the same thing differently and not be aware. Becoming aware is in fear admiration of God: learning of Him we enter into rest and don't need to fix anyone, as we are not saved by understanding and actually need to get past our understanding to be saved. "Lean not on your understanding but trust in the Lord." Understanding leaves room for thinking we are saved when we have not Love, there is no end to His Love and "Without Love I am nothing." God can't save nothing and it explains the condemnation of rejecting His Love. Neither do I have love by receiving it as a babe but by giving it away. "You knew that I was a hard man harvesting where I had not planted and gathering where I had not worked: you should have given my money to investors so that I could have gained interest from others." Those of you who think you know, remain where you are, it's an order that you can only break by admitting you don't know: to keep learning. Excuse the play on words and humor needing help, if you think you are saved and don't Love your enemy. "Through much trouble we enter His Kingdom." Not called works here: trouble is all we have to show for in the fellowship of His sufferings and apparently we are to Joy in trouble because of sufficient Grace: we only have the Grace we need when we need it. You don't get that ticket until that train arrives: God is not late or early, and we don't have resurrection until He returns. You may taste it and think you have arrived and think you will never have trouble again. "Wars are appointed until the end." Our work ends at the cross where everything that is not of God becomes nothing and we know that Jesus is of God and that He will not share His glory with another, we are called to enter into His death that we may be clothed with His Spirit and be witnesses of what He does in us and through us." A wonderful thing has happened today, have been delivered out of temptation: that feeling of I will never have trouble again, but older and wiser to the call, "Daily pick up your cross and follow Me." lol

 

[dcontroversal]

And we all know that this This is turning back to law. The law of sin and death. There's no more sacrifice to be given then for this.

Amen....Hebrews does not teach the loss of salvation regardless of any and all that attempt to twist it to that meaning...

 

[dcontroversal]

You are still preaching there is no eternal assurance of the believer, just couching it differently.

We either belong to Christ or we do not.

Like I said Jesus does not keep us guessing.

Amen....verb tense, context and the very words of the bible prove eternal security.....!

 

[dcontroversal]

That's okay, I can try to find somebody else to ask.

You can ask me Blue

 

[dcontroversal]

Actually no the thief didn't "endure to the end" he "believed" at "his end" particularly "endureth to the end" mainly focuses upon the 144,000 in the tribulation period that Jesus redeems from the earth,for they "endured not to be defiled" and "did not take the mark of tbe beast" Huge difference there.

Not to mention that Matthew 24 is not about salvation....context means nothing to lawyers, Pharisees and worker for.....

 

[dcontroversal]

you have also lied and tried your best to invoke angry responses back through passive aggressive remarks
and also aggressive remarks...

then deny wrong doings

i cant take you seriously

you flip flop and change the words of others..
and you seriously lack context in most of the verses you post

Amen.....and lies like a dog on a rug about what we do say or embellishes what we say....

 

[dcontroversal]

salvation isnt a done deal bro, there are things we are rewuired to do, by the Lord Who makes the offer of salvation. if Jesus teaches a salvation that rewuires nothing of us, it would have merit, but Jesus doesnt teach that at all, he teaches that those who call Him Lord, are not saved already, but those who actually do Gods will. He says if you do not abide in His word, you will be cast out and burned in the fire. He says when He returns all nations will be gathered before Him, boith groups of people will call Hm Lord, those who Love others in deed and truth by clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, visiting the sick...ect in other words loving like the good samaritan in deed and action truth, reality.

if i love my fellow man and see Him in need, ill help im if im able or its not Love, love is a "work" though not actually a work, really nothing God teaches is a "work" for salvation, its simply believing what He said to believe and do. seems like the best place to decide these matters is scripture.


maybe the confusion is " what is salvation to you"? salvation from? and what does the term alvation mean in context of the Bible? could be people are arguing against the terminology rather than the points made. if 3 people define salvation differently, theyll all have different understandings about it.

He knows better than to buy your drivel....salvation is a done deal at the moment of faith for those who read and believe the bible in context......!