Not By Works

joefizz · Jan 5, 2018

You didn't see the post because no name deleted it because he was being silly mentioning a unicorn but I clarified that his silliness was something serious lol,thank you for the definition!

joefizz · Jan 5, 2018

stonesoffire said:

don't worry 10 to 1 you ain't missing much.

Mercy4u · Jan 5, 2018

Cee said:

Exactly. We want to do it on our own because we don't believe God is good in that area. So we feel like we need to pick up His slack. This comes from our "past personal experiences" or just simply observations in the world. We create an idea of who God is and who we need to be in response. Then we live from that role. This is why out of the heart flows all the issues of life. Shifting this is where "renewing the mind" comes in play. As we EXPERIENTIALLY (Think testimonies here) discover His goodness and kindness we seek repentance which is following His ways and seeking Him as our Rewarder. (Faith).

I concur. Solid truth Brother.

Studyman · Jan 5, 2018

Cee said:

So I agree 100%. Jesus, before becoming a man, created everything. He created me, food, Salvation. He had a Book written for my admonition. He gave me rules and He gave me temptations to prove whether I would follow Him or another spirit. He created Mercy, Grace, Wrath, and Judgment and spelled it out for those who seek Him in His Word.

So without Jesus I have no breath, no life, no meaning. Without Jesus I don't know what sin is. I don't know what repentance is. I don't know the truth about the mind of man. I have no repentance, no life, no mercy, no Grace, nothing.

Without Jesus I can do nothing.

Nothing you posted here changes any of that. It's not that I don't agree with the Word, because I do. It's that I don't agree with much of the preaching in mainstream churches today.

So I understand many believe Jesus is in them, following the instructions He created for us so we don't have to. The same instructions which are so important He said to "Choose" them as they are life.

Duet. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I (Jesus) have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

The Same instructions that were so important that Jesus said He was going to write them on our hearts.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Again, I appreciate your replies and understand what you are trying to preach.

But God/Jesus is my foundation. Not the image of God in the likeness of some long haired men's hair shampoo model that Christianity has created, but the One in the Bible who said; "Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in Heaven is Perfect".

With man this is impossible, but with Jesus, ALL things are possible.

Mercy4u · Jan 5, 2018

UnderGrace said:

It is what the majority of believers revert to.

Where are all these , "sin like hell people?" For every 1 of these there are 10000000 of us that think , " I am pretty good, just look at all of my changes and fruits!"

dcontroversal · Jan 5, 2018

Studyman said:

Cee said:

So I agree 100%. Jesus, before becoming a man, created everything. He created me, food, Salvation. He had a Book written for my admonition. He gave me rules and He gave me temptations to prove whether I would follow Him or another spirit. He created Mercy, Grace, Wrath, and Judgment and spelled it out for those who seek Him in His Word.

So without Jesus I have no breath, no life, no meaning. Without Jesus I don't know what sin is. I don't know what repentance is. I don't know the truth about the mind of man. I have no repentance, no life, no mercy, no Grace, nothing.

Without Jesus I can do nothing.

Nothing you posted here changes any of that. It's not that I don't agree with the Word, because I do. It's that I don't agree with much of the preaching in mainstream churches today.

So I understand many believe Jesus is in them, following the instructions He created for us so we don't have to. The same instructions which are so important He said to "Choose" them as they are life.

Duet. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I (Jesus) have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

The Same instructions that were so important that Jesus said He was going to write them on our hearts.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Again, I appreciate your replies and understand what you are trying to preach.

But God/Jesus is my foundation. Not the image of God in the likeness of some long haired men's hair shampoo model that Christianity has created, but the One in the Bible who said; "Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in Heaven is Perfect".

With man this is impossible, but with Jesus, ALL things are possible.

Let me guess.....your version of perfect is applied with a modern usage twist....it means complete...NOT SINLESS PERFECTION AND OR PERFECT IN THE MODERN SENSE of the word...

Mercy4u · Jan 5, 2018

dcontroversal said:

Exactly. 'complete' or what I prefer 'mature.'

Be mature in our faith. Grow up to an adult. Apply His mind. And we will be complete as believers. We will have His 'problem solving devices' rather than our own.

Cee · Jan 5, 2018

If we have to work to keep our salvation...

And Paul said it's not I who live, but Christ in me.

How did he work to keep his salvation?

Sounds like he rested in what Christ did and was doing.

And if he didn't work to keep his salvation.

How could he confidently say Christ lived in him? (As a present reality).

There's so many issues with this idea from a Scriptural standpoint.

How can someone say they are a new creation... if you have to do something to earn it? Or wait to obtain it?

Cee · Jan 5, 2018

Thanks for the dialogue.

God bless you and keep you.

Studyman said:

So I agree 100%. Jesus, before becoming a man, created everything. He created me, food, Salvation. He had a Book written for my admonition. He gave me rules and He gave me temptations to prove whether I would follow Him or another spirit. He created Mercy, Grace, Wrath, and Judgment and spelled it out for those who seek Him in His Word.

So without Jesus I have no breath, no life, no meaning. Without Jesus I don't know what sin is. I don't know what repentance is. I don't know the truth about the mind of man. I have no repentance, no life, no mercy, no Grace, nothing.

Without Jesus I can do nothing.

Nothing you posted here changes any of that. It's not that I don't agree with the Word, because I do. It's that I don't agree with much of the preaching in mainstream churches today.

So I understand many believe Jesus is in them, following the instructions He created for us so we don't have to. The same instructions which are so important He said to "Choose" them as they are life.

Duet. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I (Jesus) have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

The Same instructions that were so important that Jesus said He was going to write them on our hearts.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Again, I appreciate your replies and understand what you are trying to preach.

But God/Jesus is my foundation. Not the image of God in the likeness of some long haired men's hair shampoo model that Christianity has created, but the One in the Bible who said; "Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in Heaven is Perfect".

With man this is impossible, but with Jesus, ALL things are possible.

dcontroversal · Jan 5, 2018

Cee said:

You cannot....Any work or fruit produced is Christ through us as a living sacrifice and why ALL GLORY GOES TO GOD...........salvation is a one off, eternal event, a present possession with ongoing effects....all by faith!

Mercy4u · Jan 5, 2018

Good thread dcontroversal. Grace is being attacked in just about every 'church' and denomination in todays world. Armin,reformed, catholic and >>>>>> lordship salvation<<<arguably the most dangerous and subtle attack on the Gospel today.

dcontroversal · Jan 5, 2018

Mercy4u said:

Amen....exactly why I keep swinging the sword.......

Mercy4u · Jan 5, 2018

Cee said:

If we have to work to keep our salvation...

And Paul said it's not I who live, but Christ in me.

How did he work to keep his salvation?

Sounds like he rested in what Christ did and was doing.

And if he didn't work to keep his salvation.

How could he confidently say Christ lived in him? (As a present reality).

There's so many issues with this idea from a Scriptural standpoint.

How can someone say they are a new creation... if you have to do something to earn it? Or wait to obtain it?

More solid truth.

Cee · Jan 5, 2018

What's ironic to me is these teachings go against the very power (grace through faith) that actually accomplishes what people hope to accomplish through their teaching of works based salvationism.

posthuman · Jan 5, 2018

DJ2 said:

the context of James 2 is do not show partiality to the rich .. ? Paul however is actually expressly presenting a systematic theology for the gospel of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. the context of chapter 4 in particular is establishing that salvation is neither bought, inherited or earned.

Mercy4u · Jan 5, 2018

dcontroversal said:

I will try to help you when I can.

UnderGrace · Jan 5, 2018

I was reading some statistics on this today exactly.

It is indeed a subtle attack within the denominations, however on the individual level it can have profound impact on one's relationship with God.

Mercy4u said:

ElAmor · Jan 5, 2018

dcontroversal said:

It's so funny because it's your own words you keep swinging against those who posts plain scriptures. Here's the true sword:

New International Version 1984 Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

dcontroversal · Jan 5, 2018

Cee said:

Exactly why the number is called plenteous (many) that come before Jesus claiming to have a right to enter based upon what they have done in his name.......even though they were never saved.....which means their root is corrupt and they attempted a different door than faith......that door being works...!

Magenta · Jan 5, 2018

stonesoffire said:

Of course it is

Not By Works

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